How to prep for fall brassica

[Bassattackr]

Jack,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think rye, oats have the allelopathic affect from the get go. They will also germinate much earlier than 99% of warm season weeds still getting ahead of them. Discing may help destroy what is there but you are right in that it jumpstarts the process all over again..

I've only done the clover/cereal in the fall, never in the spring which is why I was curious if anyone else actually tried it.

 

[yoderjac]

Jack,

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think rye, oats have the allelopathic affect from the get go. They will also germinate much earlier than 99% of warm season weeds still getting ahead of them. Discing may help destroy what is there but you are right in that it jumpstarts the process all over again..

I've only done the clover/cereal in the fall, never in the spring which is why I was curious if anyone else actually tried it.

I don't believe oats has the same chemical effect on seed germination. All of the cereal grains help take up space and resources that would otherwise be available to weeds. With a fall plant the clover has germinated and the WR is way ahead of weeds and will grow some in quite cold temps. I have planted clover with cereal in the spring. Annual clover works best because it is fast. Perennial clover works, but the field is never as clean to start with as with a fall plant. I've learned to be very weed tolerant and don't typically spray grass herbicides on it any more. For perennial clover, I like to start with best practices in the fall and start with a clean field. Over time weeds, especially grasses, will infiltrate but once established, One or two mowings per year is all I do and have great fall clover for 7-10 years with Durana before I need to rotate.

Sometimes, other factors necessitate spring planting clover, but anytime I have the option, I'll plant it in the fall.

Thakns,

Jack

 

[DavidHunter2001]

If acreage is limited, the first step is maximizing soil conditions, which includes optimizing fertilization levels. 95%+ of people are not doing that. If they did, a mixed planting would far out produce their strip plantings and be far better for their (whitetail/soil) management progam.

Having done a bunch of both, I would never plant a straight brassica strip/plot if I could avoid it.
View attachment 33781

Totally agree. It has been proven that a mix will far out produce a monoculture. I am planting a 13 species blend this spring and will follow that up with a 8 species blend in August.

 

[Bassattackr]

I don't believe oats has the same chemical effect on seed germination.

Yes, Oats and Rye are similar in that aspect. Wheat however does not.

Interesting perspectives on P vs A clover. I hadn't noticed, thanks.

 

[yoderjac]

Totally agree. It has been proven that a mix will far out produce a monoculture. I am planting a 13 species blend this spring and will follow that up with a 8 species blend in August.

Actually, that depends on what you are planting. They did some studies mixing vs strip planting of corn and beans and strips had higher yield. Having said that, I'm a mixer and since yield is rarely if ever a factor for deer management, I find a combination of both mixing and rotating produces the best, longest-term, and most sustainable results for deer management.

 

[yoderjac]

Yes, Oats and Rye are similar in that aspect. Wheat however does not.

Interesting perspectives on P vs A clover. I hadn't noticed, thanks.

I'm not suggesting oats has zero allelopathic effect. I'm saying it is not as effective as WR. Here is a link that compares some good cover crops: https://rodaleinstitute.org/science...ps-for-your-organic-no-till-vegetable-system/.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DavidHunter2001]

I have seen tests of strips of various species in monocultures (not corn or beans in what I saw) during a drought year and the monocultures were in pretty pour condition. They also planted a strip with a mix of the same species that they planted in various strips and that mix was thriving even in the drought condition. Same soil conditions just a few yards apart. It was pretty amazing the difference.

 

[yoderjac]

I have seen tests of strips of various species in monocultures (not corn or beans in what I saw) during a drought year and the monocultures were in pretty pour condition. They also planted a strip with a mix of the same species that they planted in various strips and that mix was thriving even in the drought condition. Same soil conditions just a few yards apart. It was pretty amazing the difference.

Absolutely! As I said, it depends on what you are planting. From a drought perspective, a big factor is tillage. Smart mixing using no/min till techniques conserve a significant amount of moisture.

 

[Bassattackr]

I'm not suggesting oats has zero allelopathic effect. I'm saying it is not as effective as WR. Here is a link that compares some good cover crops: https://rodaleinstitute.org/science...ps-for-your-organic-no-till-vegetable-system/.

Thanks,

Jack

That's a pretty generic article. Actual trials say otherwise.. From Agronomy, Allelopathic Impacts of Cover Crop Species on germination of cotton. They are both very similar.

 

[yoderjac]

That's a pretty generic article. Actual trials say otherwise.. From Agronomy, Allelopathic Impacts of Cover Crop Species on germination of cotton. They are both very similar.

View attachment 33925

A few issues here. First, that is focused specifically on cotton germination. It is also comparing Annual rye, not winter rye planted the previous year. It may well be that they specific chemical effect of oats has more impact on cotton germination. However, I've seen nothing indicating Oats has an equivalent effect on small seeded weeds as WR.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[DavidHunter2001]

Absolutely! As I said, it depends on what you are planting. From a drought perspective, a big factor is tillage. Smart mixing using no/min till techniques conserve a significant amount of moisture.

While I agree tillage has a very large impact on moisture in the soil, it had no affect in the trials I was referring to. All the test strips were planted in the same manner.

 

[yoderjac]

While I agree tillage has a very large impact on moisture in the soil, it had no affect in the trials I was referring to. All the test strips were planted in the same manner.

I wasn't suggesting it did. I was simply suggesting that folks living in areas where drought is a big issue can get even more benefit out of no-till than mixing. The comparisons I recall may have been in a QW article. I can't recall for sure. They were not done under drought or any extreme conditions. They were just side by side comparisons done over a few years.

 

[yoderjac]

As we are talking about yield and technique here is something to consider from a deer management perspective: The largest share of a deer's diet is comprised of native foods. While you can improve both quantity and quality of deer foods by large scale habitat management like timber management, eventually you become limited by the underlying fertility of the soils in the general area. Few if any deer managers have the resources to fertilize miles of native habitat. Food plots can impact the herd by covering stress periods. Smoothing out these gaps when nature is stingy can maximize your herd health and nutrition. It doesn't matter if deer are eating a high quality native like poke berry or soybean. It simply matters they have high quality food available when they need it.

So, any crop that is left in the field after the stress period is over is not contributing to the deer herd. In fact any food that does not end up in the belly of a deer does not contribute. That does not mean that it doesn't contribute to nutrient cycling and soil health, but any plant that grows and dies contributes to that.

There are certainly situations on tiny properties where small plot's can't be established because of very high deer densities. Generally, you can't "out yield" deer in this kind of situation. Food plots here are generally for in season attraction. Here, a gallagher-style fence to protect the small plot until the period where you want the attraction is generally better than trying high intensity farming techniques.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[westonwhitetail]

I also like to spring planted RR soybeans before brassicas. Spray once or twice in the summer to keep weeds out then overseed them with your brassica blend mid summer. Depending on your deer density you may not get any soybean pods. Four acres may be enough to get some, but maybe not. Even if you don't get the pods, this is still a decent way to have summer forage and be able to keep the plot weed free up to the time of brassica planting.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Stock up on amo and stock up the freezer with does. I have great pod production with only half acre of soybean plot. Keep your numbers in check and put more effort into habitat instead of food


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