How long do apple trees take to bear fruit? Shortest way?

[j-bird]

I agree with starting with CRABS. I didn't and regret it now. However not all crab apple trees are the same. What truly defines a crab apple is the size of it's fruit. If I recall properly anything at 2" in size or smaller is considered a crab. Many, many crabs will produce fruit too small to be of interest to deer...so pay very close attention to the variety you are planting. You don't want to plant something that is just going to look pretty in the spring! Like I said...IF you choose to go down this path, we have some wonderful resources here with hands on experience of doing just about everything there is to do with fruit trees...I am not such a resource. Folks like Sandbur, Prof. Kent and Greyphase (and others) have forgotten more about fruit trees than I will ever know...but they will certainly help you if they can. Fruit trees can be a lot of work, they can be challenging, they can be very rewarding...good luck to you.

 

[sandbur]

I agree with starting with CRABS. I didn't and regret it now. However not all crab apple trees are the same. What truly defines a crab apple is the size of it's fruit. If I recall properly anything at 2" in size or smaller is considered a crab. Many, many crabs will produce fruit too small to be of interest to deer...so pay very close attention to the variety you are planting. You don't want to plant something that is just going to look pretty in the spring! Like I said...IF you choose to go down this path, we have some wonderful resources here with hands on experience of doing just about everything there is to do with fruit trees...I am not such a resource. Folks like Sandbur, Prof. Kent and Greyphase (and others) have forgotten more about fruit trees than I will ever know...but they will certainly help you if they can. Fruit trees can be a lot of work, they can be challenging, they can be very rewarding...good luck to you.

I am far from an expert on apples, just a bumbling idiot. In my case, any crab about one inch or bigger and that drops on it’s own is fine for deer. I even feel deer prefer apples less than 2 inches.

Dolgo seedlings are cheap and seem to provide a nice variety of bird sized flowering crabs to larger deer crabs. Might be a good place to start, then add a few select other crab apples.


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[yoderjac]

I'm young in my Apple journey so I can't provide a lot of specific advice. The reason I'm just starting with apples is that I'm not just planting a few trees and using them for attraction, but hope to plant in enough volume to feed deer as part of a transition to permaculture for deer and wildlife. I found many apples require a lot of maintenance to produce well and this just doesn't fit for my use. I started my permaculture trend by grafting native persimmon trees converting them from male to producing female trees. When I finally decided to add apples, my primary focus was on low maintenance disease resistant varieties. Folks mentioned in this thread were all great resources for understanding what to look for as I read their posts.

Also, cost is an issue when trying to work in sufficient volume. I've been working on a small scale for several years, starting apples for seed and grafting to the seedlings. I just needed to convince myself this will be worth it in the long run.

This is my first big year. I just received 50 1/4" M111 rootstock yesterday. As soon as my GRIN order arrives, I'll begin grafting and as soon as the grafts callus, I'll start them indoors in containers. I can't really handle 50, but the only way to get rootstock at this time of year was to buy them from a wholesaler and 50 was the minimum order. The cost with special 3 day shipping because of the time of year was about $25 more than buying 25 rootstock locally.

So far, my conclusions are that using M111 will give me fruit much faster than grafting to seedlings. It seems to do well in my soils. The semi-dwarfing is enough to get early production but still have a sufficiently large tree for wildlife use. Semi-dwarf is a good compromise for wildlife in my opinion, but select the specific rootstock based on your soils. Local orchards will tell you what semi-dwarf rootstock works in local soils.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[weekender21]

I had a crab from NWC produce a single apple this first year. And 23 other trees that didn’t. I’m not expecting significant crop for another 5-7 years.


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[yoderjac]

I had a crab from NWC produce a single apple this first year. And 23 other trees that didn’t. I’m not expecting significant crop for another 5-7 years.


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I've had that occur with apples and persimmons and other trees that are grafted. Occasionally, a scion will have a flower bud on it and that bud will produce a flower that gets fertilized. Most I've seen are a couple fruit. I've actually had that happen with persimmons in a couple months after they were grafted and still in rootbuilder containers on my deck. Typically, they don't produce fruit the next year. The go back to vegetative mode until they have matured.

One more thing for the OP to keep in mind: Even for attraction, it takes a certain volume of fruit to work. When I look at time to fruit advertised by nurseries, they are typically very aggressive. They are talking about the very first fruit on trees under ideal conditions. Most of us don't have those. I have had some trees produce fruit and nuts in the time nurseries suggest, but very few. The amount produced is inconsequential from a deer perspective. It generally takes quite a few years more for trees to produce significant enough volumes of fruit to have an impact on deer behavior.

Different trees seem to do this differently. We planted some pears that grew like mad but never produced fruit. Just as I was about to give up on them, one tree produce two pears. Keep in mind they were 20' tall by now. The very next year they produced like crazy and have produced well ever since. Other trees seem to gradually produce a little more fruit each year after they start producing.

If you plant a cluster of trees, smaller amounts of fruit produce by each tree have a cumulative effect on deer.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[gunfun13]

I had a crab from NWC produce a single apple this first year. And 23 other trees that didn’t. I’m not expecting significant crop for another 5-7 years.


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One of my NWC trees (droptine I believe) had a couple crabs it's first year (2017), I bet I pulled off over a hundred the spring of year two. I plan to pull them all off again this spring then will let it go.

 

[Tree Spud]

Slightly off topic - how do you guys get those 10' conduit pieces in the ground?

This year I've noticed many of my 1st & 2nd year Apple trees, and my nursery trees, are still holding leaves in mid Dec.

A step ladder and a 5 lbs sledge ... you youngsters should be good at this

 

[sandbur]

Slightly off topic - how do you guys get those 10' conduit pieces in the ground?

This year I've noticed many of my 1st & 2nd year Apple trees, and my nursery trees, are still holding leaves in mid Dec.

A step ladder and a 5 lbs sledge ... you youngsters should be good at this

With normal spring moisture, I just push them in the ground.


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[yoderjac]

I use remesh for cages and it will stand on it's own. You can use a small piece of rebar or even a step in fence post to keep deer from pushing it around.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Telemark]

Slightly off topic - how do you guys get those 10' conduit pieces in the ground?

I use a ram.

 

[weekender21]

My 2019 order. It's hard to go wrong with lots of research and a very diversified selection, at least that has been my approach for fruit/nut plantings the last few years. I planted 24 crabs and apples from NWC last spring. It was a ton of work caging and watering in each tree with only walking access to many of the trees. I had planned on a smaller order this year but I doubt I'll look back 5-10 years from now and wish I had planted less.


Northern Whitetail Crabs:
3006 crab-3
Droptine crab-3
Liberty-3
Enterprise-3

St. Lawrence:
Priscilla-1
Liberty-1
Freedom-1
Enterprise-1
Chestnut crab-1

Wildlife group:
Apples:
Dolgo crab x2
Transcendent crab x2
Arkansas black x2

Pears (one of each):
Arthur Ledbetter
Becton
Dixie Delight
Gate
Kiefer
Ms. Laneene
Harrows Delight
TS Hardy
Moonglow
Warren

 

[Skelly]

My 2019 order. It's hard to go wrong with lots of research and a very diversified selection, at least that has been my approach for fruit/nut plantings the last few years. I planted 24 crabs and apples from NWC last spring. It was a ton of work caging and watering in each tree with only walking access to many of the trees. I had planned on a smaller order this year but I doubt I'll look back 5-10 years from now and wish I had planted less.


Northern Whitetail Crabs:
3006 crab-3
Droptine crab-3
Liberty-3
Enterprise-3

St. Lawrence:
Priscilla-1
Liberty-1
Freedom-1
Enterprise-1
Chestnut crab-1

Wildlife group:
Apples:
Dolgo crab x2
Transcendent crab x2
Arkansas black x2

Pears (one of each):
Arthur Ledbetter
Becton
Dixie Delight
Gate
Kiefer
Ms. Laneene
Harrows Delight
TS Hardy
Moonglow
Warren

Nice list.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Weekender21 - That IS a nice list. Good things coming for you. Critters gonna love it there.

 

[weekender21]

Weekender21 - That IS a nice list. Good things coming for you. Critters gonna love it there.

I sure hope so. I am concerned about bears liking the trees a little too much but there are other apples in the area that have managed to survive.

 

[paleopoint]

I can sympathize with the posters above who have found grafted apples to be a bit problematic.
They are.

I've got trees on 7's, 111's, 118's, and G30.
None of them are as speedy as my age requires.
But they are coming along and are bearing......a little more fruit each year depending upon fox squirrels, raccoons, and possums.
(Deer predation is a little easier to manage with fencing.)

Re: crabs.
My best luck...by far...is in finding a cluster of crabs along a country road, or railroad bed that seemed to be the progeny of the largest crab nearby. I think what such 'clusters' tell me is that the parent is throwing off seed that is coming true to the parent. So, if I like what I see in the parent.....I gather seed. So, far ....after 10yrs of doing this....I'm growing ever happier with the results. Critter predation is less. Bug & disease issues are hugely less.

So that's my story with gathering wild crabs.
........................................................

For pears....I have now, for the last 3 years, had fantabulous success with some seed-grown pears.
I gathered these seed in 2008 from two farmyard trees that have been consistent, persistent, prolific producers of fruit. (I also have those same trees on grafted rootstocks...and they are producing like Mom & Dad.)

But it is the seedlings from one of those two trees that now is my habitat 'home run'.
They began putting out significant fruit (about 1" to 1-1/4" diameter) in 2016....and are growing exponentially every year since.
And best yet --- they hold long.....real long. Into January.
And they are the absolute #1 'deer magnet' for my property.
I have a gabillion trail cam shots of deer rearing up on their hind-legs to snip one of those small fruits.
In 2017 & 2018 the fruit hung into late January of those years. (Mom & Dad pear trees are all dropped by mid-November)
This year, 2018/19, my trailcam showed a raccoon found the trees in December and he (she?) wiped out the fruit in a week's worth of work.

But the upshot of the story is that now I am concentrating on growing more seedlings from the parent's seeds.

 

[sandbur]

I can sympathize with the posters above who have found grafted apples to be a bit problematic.
They are.

I've got trees on 7's, 111's, 118's, and G30.
None of them are as speedy as my age requires.
But they are coming along and are bearing......a little more fruit each year depending upon fox squirrels, raccoons, and possums.
(Deer predation is a little easier to manage with fencing.)

Re: crabs.
My best luck...by far...is in finding a cluster of crabs along a country road, or railroad bed that seemed to be the progeny of the largest crab nearby. I think what such 'clusters' tell me is that the parent is throwing off seed that is coming true to the parent. So, if I like what I see in the parent.....I gather seed. So, far ....after 10yrs of doing this....I'm growing ever happier with the results. Critter predation is less. Bug & disease issues are hugely less.

So that's my story with gathering wild crabs.
........................................................

For pears....I have now, for the last 3 years, had fantabulous success with some seed-grown pears.
I gathered these seed in 2008 from two farmyard trees that have been consistent, persistent, prolific producers of fruit. (I also have those same trees on grafted rootstocks...and they are producing like Mom & Dad.)

But it is the seedlings from one of those two trees that now is my habitat 'home run'.
They began putting out significant fruit (about 1" to 1-1/4" diameter) in 2016....and are growing exponentially every year since.
And best yet --- they hold long.....real long. Into January.
And they are the absolute #1 'deer magnet' for my property.
I have a gabillion trail cam shots of deer rearing up on their hind-legs to snip one of those small fruits.
In 2017 & 2018 the fruit hung into late January of those years. (Mom & Dad pear trees are all dropped by mid-November)
This year, 2018/19, my trailcam showed a raccoon found the trees in December and he (she?) wiped out the fruit in a week's worth of work.

But the upshot of the story is that now I am concentrating on growing more seedlings from the parent's seeds.

Do you have any pictures of the crabs from those seedlings? Have you tasted them?


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[Rubee]

Paleopoint where are you located? Congrats on your success with seedling pears. I started some last spring and hope they do ad well ad yours.

 

[paleopoint]

Sandbur......I do have pics on my phone. For the crabs and the seedling pears. I will do some noodling to figure out how to transfer from phone to this website.
Patience will be appreciated, as I ain't the brightest candle on the cake for doing such stuff.

Rubee ......I am in south central Michigan.
Farm country all around..... in fact, we cashcrop grains on our farm.
We ain't tryin' to feed China.....and in truth, it is the 'habitat-ing' that has been my passion for the last 20years.
Fortunately, we are comfortably retired so there is little need to have a passion for corn & soys. I simply enjoy it now for the diversity.

 

[paleopoint]

Have not tried tasting the crab apple. Critters like 'em a lot ....that's good'nuff for me.
Have tried the pear. No thank you.
Maybe in a smoothie with Haagen Daz could work.

 

[paleopoint]

Oooops, I just goofed on posting pics of deer working over the pear tree pictured above.
I indadvertenty posted in that thread about 'apples from rootstocks'.

In case you wanna go cross reference.