Help please…semi-failed throw n roll

[tbarile]

Did a throw n mow a few weeks ago and had mixed results. Method - broadcast brassica mix, sprayed gly, and rolled with cultipacker. As you can see from pics, it’s growing great in some areas and damn near bare ground in others. Should I broadcast more seed and roll again? Disc? My soil is sandy. No rain in the forecast for awhile.

Added to post below. I had trouble in this area last year due to thick grass coming in before brassicas did. Due to that I sprayed the grass in early July to kill it off and then sprayed the weeds that were growing when I did the planting a few weeks ago.

I’m in NE Indiana zone 5b.

 

[SD51555]

That looks like it's been dead for a very long time. Is it possible you're just too dry to germinate anything yet? I can't quite tell how thick your duff layer is, but perhaps there's not enough there to greenhouse those seeds into starting.

 

[tbarile]

We’ve had a few inches of rain since I planted. Honestly couldn’t have asked for much better.

I should add that I had trouble in this area last year too. There was grass that kept overtaking and not letting the brassicas come up. Due to that, I sprayed the grass in early July and then sprayed again when I did the throw n roll a few weeks ago.

 

[bigboreblr]

Area that grew better was the north end? OR is it possible the top of the hill had less grass, less thatch. Can't zoom in enough to see how much thatch you had to go through.

Where do you live? Some folks don't have much time left before 1st frost. Many food plot items need 6 weeks before ave 1st frost. Rye and oats can be an exception.


Leave the good spots alone. You can spread seed on there if you like. The not so good spots, I'd just do rye and/or oats and maybe just red clover and ladino. Get some clethodim or maybe 24db and keep the clover alive next summer, then spray and rebrassica. Not sure how well 2,4db does on grasses. Also, it's important to Id your weeds / grass well. I thoght clethodim would kill my grass problem..... Found out it was sedge and not grass, needed to use other chemicals. The clover in the spring you can hit with a 2 pint / acre hit of gly to kill emerging weeds and grasses.

daikon raddish is a good alternative if you don't have a way of tilling the soil, or choose to do no til for a long perido of time.

Rye has a window of palatibilty. Usually hear around 4 inches tall range. Oats seem to be well liked at most stages of growth.

 

[SwampCat]

I do a throw and mow food plot or two every year - and have for half a dozen years. My experience - throw and mows are not as consistently successful as conventional earth baring tillage - it doesnt have to be deep tillage - one inch is fine. Seed to soil contact is much better. But, mother nature - with any manner of planting effort - is a determined adversary when she wants to be.

 

[FarmerDan]

Me again. It's impossible to diagnose the problem with the general information provided. Well, your planting method is suspect. Throw - and spray - and roll? Brassicas? What exactly? Seeding rate(s)? Soil chemistry, pH specifically? How wide is your cultipacker? What did you use to "throw" your seed? How long since seeding? More information than "a couple weeks." Daytime temperatures since. Looking at the pictures which end is north?

My guess is you don't have enough thatch to keep a germinating seed moist enough to burst to life. And, not to be snarky, everything else you did requires some more introspection.

How much of the seed do you think germinated and is growing? 20%? 30% 50%?

I think one thing we don't often consider is fungal disease in moist dead thatch. I don't know....

Here's a guess. If I'm right you'll think I'm a genius! If I'm wrong you won't remember I'm really an idiot! In the first picture I'm guessing north-ish is at the top, west-ish on the left side. Where the best growth is seen extends from the left side of the picture (west?-ish) into what is probably the maximum shadow line of the west-ish (maybe southwest) shade line provided by the tall trees. Those trees look much taller than any other I can see. So what? It keeps the soil surface temperature lower resulting in less moisture loss than in other areas of the field. If a seed breaks dormancy it needs continuous moisture until it can get properly rooted els it's toast.

 

[Tree Spud]

A couple weeks? I wouldn't worry, may look very different in another 2. Throw and mow can be very hit and miss. Three 3 things must happen ...

Seed needs soil contact
Rain to moisten the seed ... and then more rain to promote growth
Sun to heat soil and germinate the seed

As Farmer Dan stated, lots of other questions especially broadcast and cultipacker design & method. Surprised you do not show germination lines where atv tires went over soil?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

I agree with farmerdan……..It could be a few things but likely it’s a moisture issue……There’s a few things that can help alleviate that…..increased SOM…….increased infiltration…….increased thatch…..etc.

 

[tbarile]

To answer a couple of questions:

I labeled the pics so you can see the directions. I also added an overhead view of the 4 acre plot. North side is currently clover and South is this brassica. I don't recall how much seed specifically but I did 150% of what the rate called for. It's a blend a local guy makes with rape, PPT, etc... I've planted it 3-4 years straight on the North side of the plot in the exact same method and had excellent results. I used an over the shoulder spreader and walked both North to South and East to West distributing the seed. The cultipacker is 10', I bought it from a farmer that was no longer using it. Not sure on PH, this 2 acre section was clover for a number of years and then started to get over run with grass last year which is why I tried to turn it into brassica. Ironically the areas that were closer to bare ground are doing much better than the areas that had more thatch.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Throw an annual clover in the thin spots and let r be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[buckdeer1]

What did you spray the same day you planted?Some herbicides do have a residual but if straight gly it shouldn't but I bet just not enough rain.If you broadcast some more ,wait till better rain chance

 

[tbarile]

What did you spray the same day you planted?Some herbicides do have a residual but if straight gly it shouldn't but I bet just not enough rain.If you broadcast some more ,wait till better rain chance

Sprayed with straight gly. Planted august 4th and we’ve had 1.5” of rain. I could swear it was a lot more than that but that’s what a website is telling me.

 

[FarmerDan]

Thank you for the additional information. I looked at daily temperatures and rainfall for NWS COOP stations in NE Indiana for Aug 1 - Aug 20. Observations are general. Your specific situation my be an anomaly - but that would be weird. It is weather so who knows. There was zero rain Aug 4,5,9,10,11,13,14,17, 19 & 20.

There was adequate precipitation Aug 6 (0.5 to 1.5); Aug 15 (0.25 to 0.50); and Aug 18 (0.50 to 0.75).

The other days a trace to 0.10 inches.

Again, I understand your situation may be totally different.

Max temps hardly ever exceeded the mid 80s anywhere in Indiana. Seems like all of that would produce a better outcome than you see.

There's one statement you made that could be a big clue. Something like, bare ground saw better germination (compared to in the thatch). You ran a 10 ft cultipacker over the seed. I'm wondering if it appropriately pressed the seed into the bare ground and only had minimal impact where there was thatch? We might all have something to learn here. Maybe there was adequate moisture to start germination but maybe the seed is still laying exposed (dead ?) in the dead grass?

Curious. Wish I could offer an "ah ha" moment. I can't. Or maybe Tree Spud hit it on the head - "A couple weeks? I wouldn't worry, may look very different in another 2. Throw and mow can be very hit and miss."

Maybe there's still hope!

 

[tbarile]

I think it was poor soil contact, I probably need to add weight to that cuktipacker or use my narrower but heavy yard roller.

Do you th link that seed is laying there dormant or trashed due to the moisture but not good contact?

Just wondering if I should take precious advice of filling in with annual clover or go roll the bare spots and see if that will jump start it…getting awfully late for brassica here though, especially with no rain in sight.

 

[FarmerDan]

I think it was poor soil contact, I probably need to add weight to that cuktipacker or use my narrower but heavy yard roller.

Do you th link that seed is laying there dormant or trashed due to the moisture but not good contact?

Just wondering if I should take precious advice of filling in with annual clover or go roll the bare spots and see if that will jump start it…getting awfully late for brassica here though, especially with no rain in sight.

I don't know about the seed. What do you consider to be frost date? End of September? That's not a show stopper for brassicas, is it? The whole idea of frosts and first (or last) frost dates is worthy of another deep discussion. To seed or reseed, I don't know. I guess it depends on your purpose(s) for the food plot and what other food sources are around, Then there's the whole deer psychology thing at work. I have a couple plots, yes, for food - but I've had failures too. But deer seem to not care. I think they get used to going to open places like food plots just to see who and what else is there. I'm leading to this - I think I would just leave it alone to see what happens. I know that's a hard thing to do....

 

[Smokegobbler]

My experience with poor brassica germination patterns is usually related to too much rain (saturated soil/short term standing water during germination/emergence). Probably not the cause in your case, as you mentioned sandy soils. I'm over in NW Indiana and we had some fairly heavy rains earlier in the month that affected my brassica planting.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I think it was poor soil contact, I probably need to add weight to that cuktipacker or use my narrower but heavy yard roller.

Do you th link that seed is laying there dormant or trashed due to the moisture but not good contact?

Just wondering if I should take precious advice of filling in with annual clover or go roll the bare spots and see if that will jump start it…getting awfully late for brassica here though, especially with no rain in sight.

I just planted my brassica 10 days ago in Southern Minnesota. I think you have time.

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Yeah, i've planted brassica about this time on 4a/3b border and still gotten good growth but that was a warm fall. Tubers/bulbs didn't amount to anything beyond bite sized snacks and the tops didn't get huge but it was a lush green field that the deer were drawn to all fall.

 

[PatinPA]

Mine is pretty spotty too this year. Very much like yours, it's really nice in areas and really bad in others. I'm just going to fill in the bad areas with Rye and Oats and be done with it. My deer seem to like them more than anything anyway.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

You may have smothered out the little brassica seeds by pressing down a solid mat of thatch over the top of them. I've found things like clover and brassicas do best just broadcast over the top of loose thatch.