Good Soil Building Rotation

westonwhitetail

5 year old buck +
I just moved and am going from soil that was heavy clay to now it is pretty much a sandy beach (maybe I should have tried to find some ground in between :emoji_thinking: ha). What type of plantings have people had success with to build OM in sandy soils? I am planting winter rye ASAP mixed with some clover and peas for this fall. Not sure what to do for the spring yet.
I just want some ideas moving forward.
Also I'm planning to do everything throw and mow to retain moisture and OM.
 
Buckwheat
 
Building sandy soil is slow and frustrating. Your clover/rye plan is a good one for this fall.

I have a sandy plot and the soil building process was too slow and I saw limited results over 6 years, so I brought in several dump truck loads of compost to speed up the process a bit. It certainly helped, but it still dries out much faster than nearby areas with a better base soil.
 
Throw and mow can be tough on sandy soil since the top layer of soil dries out so fast that it can be tough to get good germination. It is certainly worth a try though because every area is a little different.

The plants I've planted specifically to build soil up simply don't draw in the deer as well as soybeans (which don't build up the soil as much), so it's a balancing act between building the soil and drawing in the deer. When I'm in the soil building part of the rotation I've had better luck mixing a bunch of stuff together - buckwheat, oats, peas, clover, radishes and whatever else I have laying around.
 
I just moved and am going from soil that was heavy clay to now it is pretty much a sandy beach (maybe I should have tried to find some ground in between :emoji_thinking: ha). What type of plantings have people had success with to build OM in sandy soils? I am planting winter rye ASAP mixed with some clover and peas for this fall. Not sure what to do for the spring yet.
I just want some ideas moving forward.
Also I'm planning to do everything throw and mow to retain moisture and OM.

You are on the right track. The first rule for building OM is don't destroy what you have by tillage. Build the OM from the top down. Water quickly leaches nutrients from sandy soils. I know folks who have to add 3 tons/ac of lime every time they plant because 6 months later the adjustment has moved bellow root level. Only surface broadcast lime and fertilizer. I now even do this on clay.

Next, building OM is composting. If you look at how folks compost, it is having the proper mix of Greens and Browns. In farming terms, it is Carbon and Nitrogen. You get a lot of carbon from grasses and a lot of Nitrogen from legumes which fix it from the air.

Because of a specific weed problem, I've stopped planting RR warm season annuals. I've been experimenting with a mix that seems to feed deer and help with OM. This year, I broadcast equal parts of Sunn Hemp and Buckwheat. I then tried to no-till drill sunflowers into them. I did this on two different farms about 15 miles apart and one has higher deer densities. I got no sunflowers in the high deer density area as deer nipped them off before they were established. In the other area, I did get some sunflowers, but not enough to do it again.

I was experimenting a bit with rates. I tried 10 lbs/ac of Sunn Hemp and Buckwheat each on some fields and ended up with a lot of weed competition. I also tried 30 lbs/ac of each in another area and it was so thick pretty much everything else was shaded out. Next year, I think I will shoot for 20-25 lbs/ac of each. I won't do the sunflowers again. I may try adding some spring oats to the mix instead of the sunflowers. Sorghum is another option, but depending when I plant in the fall, I'm afraid the sorghum heads would not have time to ripen. It would still be good for the soil.

For fall, I plant a cover crop mix. WR is my backbone. Like Sunn Hemp, it performs in infertile soils with poor pH. I typically add some kind of clover, crimson or medium red depending on my plans for the following spring. I also add a brassica. I often use PTT for a late season deer food, but you might consider GHR to add OM deeper into your sand without mechanical tillage.

These are just ideas to consider. I'm in zone 7a so you will need to adjust accordingly. These crops are all great deer foods as well as soil builders. Here is another thread with more on my Sunn Hemp experience: http://www.habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/sunn-hemp.10301/

Thanks,

Jack
 
how many acres do you anticipate trying to plot? many ideas to help, but some could be difficult in large scale. I'm thinking minucipal composted leaves, manure spreader....... manure, and manure spreader...... let local landscapers dump fall leaves............ those would need a chop first, or a hill and compost.
 
I like the sun hemp idea of incorporating sun hemp in the spring. How attractive is it to deer? Is it something to mix in a fall mix as well for early season hunting or would it not do well?


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How does composting leaves and such affect your next planting? I did notice the soil in the woods is nice black soil, but still sandy. I assumed because of the leaf litter each year. How do you spread the compost and still plant without it getting smothering out?


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Oh and the area is about a half acre for now, so something like that would be doable. I plant to expand it in the future though.

I was gonna check the township dump for a compost pile for the garden anyway.


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I have planted sudan grass as a cover crop and soil builder. Large rood system and will scavenge nitrogen. It can grw 8'-9' tall but also mowed several rimes and it will regrow. can produce potentially 8,000–10,000 lbs per, and Sorghum-Sudangrass hybrids will produce more biomass than sudangrass.

You can plant peas, buckwheat, clovers, oats, sunhemp, etc with.

I will be planting this mix next year and probably add some forage kale & GHR, maybe even some forage soy beans.
 
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Sorghum Sudangrass, Sun Hemp, Buckwheat, and Cow Peas.
 
I like the sun hemp idea of incorporating sun hemp in the spring. How attractive is it to deer? Is it something to mix in a fall mix as well for early season hunting or would it not do well?


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For me, rather than looking to improve soil first by adding OM artificially (manure, compost, and such) and then focusing on deer food, I like the idea of doing it simultaneously. Building OM is a very slow process. Depending on your soils, it could easily take 10 years. You can't just pile on OM from an external source, because plants need soil. Folks who apply a lot of OM artificially at one usually till it in. That adds OM, but the tillage burns it quickly and disturbs the soil tilth and causes other issues. Many farmers top dress with smaller amounts like manure over multiple years, but again that takes a lot of time and effort. By growing your own "compost", you are feeding deer at the same time you are building OM. As OM slowly builds, the microbiology improves, nutrient cycling improves, and the less fertilizer is required for the same results. It is amazing the tonnage of vegetative matter that can be produced with the right combination of grasses and legumes. We only see what is above ground and sometimes forget how much the deep rooted grasses have root systems that penetrate and drive OM into the soil without tillage.

As for sunn hemp, it is a subtropical plant so it is sensitive to frost. It is slower to get started than buckwheat, but once it gets going, it grows fast and tall. I probably would not use it as a fall attractant as there are other warm season annuals that are less expensive that come up fast for an early season attractant. When I want to add a warm season annual to a fall mix for early season attraction knowing it will die at the first frost, I usually talk to the manager at the local coop. Once farmers are done planting soybeans, their bin beans and broken bags usually go to waste. They sell them to me cheap and I'll add them to a fall mix. The issue is that they can't be just surface broadcast, you need a no-till drill. Another thing that works well is a volunteer plot of buckwheat. When you plant buckwheat in your summer mix and let it go to seed, you will get a volunteer crop of buckwheat as part of your fall plant. How thick the volunteer crop is depends on your planting rate and your soils. Some folks with fertile soils have to terminate buckwheat before it goes to seed because the volunteer crop is so thick it shades out the rest of the fall plant. I don't have that issue with my soils. I don't adjust fall planting rates because I know that if the deer let any of the buckwheat live in the fall, it will die at the first light frost making room for the rest of the mix.

As for attraction of sunn hemp, my results have been mixed. I did not use any exclusion cages, so I don't have an in-field comparison, but my field to field results were quite different, and my property to property results were even more dramatic.

On the good soil, low density, property I did not see much use, but the field was so thick, deer may have been using it a lot and I just could not see it because of the regrowth and low deer density. The planting rate was higher here and it grew well over 6' in places.

On the pine farm where I hunt, some fields had 90% of the plants with obvious browsing and it never got more than a foot or so tall. A field a few hundred yards away had moderate browsing (maybe 30% of the sunn hemp plants) and the plants in that field were 3'-4' tall. Another field another couple hundred yards away had very light browsing (a few plants here and there) and got 4' to 5' tall.

Sunn Hemp is a nutritious deer food. Maybe it is not quite as nutritious as soybeans (25-30%) verses (20-25%), but it is close. My deer hammer soybeans at the pine farm and it is hard to get them established between the browse pressure and weed competition. This was really the first year my deer had any significant volume of sunn hemp planted. It could be that it is just taking them time to learn the new food source is valuable to them. Deer sometimes can take a number of years of planting before they realize turnips are a good food source when they are first planted in a location. Perhaps something similar is happening to a lesser degree with sunn hemp.

It is not just sunn hemp, but the combination of crops and rotation that builds the soil. Other legumes could be used like soybeans or cowpeas or such. I like the tonnage and amount of N that sunn hemp can fix into the soil which is why I'm leaning that direction for the long term.

One last thought on warm season annuals. In my area and with my high deer densities, the main purpose for me to plant warm season annuals for summer is to cover our summer stress period here in zone 7A. Are summer and winter stress periods are pretty balanced here but summer is probably a little more stressful to deer in most years. My purpose is to provide quality food to deer during this period if they need it, not to attract them. I'm doing QDM, not just trying to improve hunting. So, less attraction is actually better for me. Reduced browse pressure during establishment means quality food is available when they need it in the heat of summer when quality native foods dry up. When I was planting soybeans, I was not planting them for pods, but for the summer forage. They were too attractive.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Lots of options for soil building OM and food source early spring into Nov/Dec...

OM - sudan grass, Sorghum sudan grass, oats, ww/wr, buckwheat, sun hemp

Food - peas, clover, kale, brassicas, peas, GHR, WR, soybeans, sunflowers
 
Oh and the area is about a half acre for now, so something like that would be doable. I plant to expand it in the future though.

I was gonna check the township dump for a compost pile for the garden anyway.


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I am just a little ways north of you, and I think I would just keep it simple, and dont over think it. What I would personally do is, 1000 pounds of lime, and plant rye, and clover into it right now. Then in the middle of June, plant buckwheat and roll the rye, then Labor day week end, plant rye into it, and roll the buckwheat, the clover should stay active during this time, and you will build a lot of OM in just a few years, and the deer will eat everything you plant as well. Then just repeat every year, except the clover, just add more clover to your fall mix if it is getting thin.
 
When I brought in dump truck loads of compost I spread it out with my tractor and disked it in.

Have you tested the soil in this plot? I would definitely recommend doing that first and applying fertilizer and lime as needed to make the conditions ideal for maximum growth of whatever you plant. Then you will also have a clear number of what your organic matter is on year 1 and track how that changes over time. I think you will have a bunch of options if you have an expensive no-till drill or planter, but things get tougher if you do not have those. I don't have either, so I disk in my bigger seeds in and overseed and cultipack the smaller seeds in.

Ideally you will have something growing as long as possible. To do that I've planted oats really early and let them grow to build up organic matter, then in late May/early June I've broadcast soybean seeds and lightly disked them in to plant them. This has been my attempt to build organic matter while growing the soybeans that draw in the deer better than anything else.

My organic matter % has increased from about 1.2% in 2013 to 1.5% in 2018 (this increased 1.5% value was taken prior to spreading that compost, so it should be slightly higher now). In the off years that I do not grow soybeans I plant oats really early, then sometimes plant solid buckwheat once the soil is warm or I go with a mix of a bunch of seeds for a mix. I have noticed that in year 1 when I had a low pH, P and K that I couldn't get brassicas to grow well at all. Now with proper pH and nutrients I can grow a pretty respectable brassica stand if the rain cooperates.
 
I think I'll plant sun hemp in the spring and see how it does. I can always just mix in a little in the fall if I have leftover seed and want to experiment.

What seed rate is needed for sorghum sudan grass sun hemp if I want to mix in a few other varieties for summer food attraction? I think adding some height to the mix with sun hemp and sorghum would help the plot security in the summer and get more use.
 
I am just a little ways north of you, and I think I would just keep it simple, and dont over think it. What I would personally do is, 1000 pounds of lime, and plant rye, and clover into it right now. Then in the middle of June, plant buckwheat and roll the rye, then Labor day week end, plant rye into it, and roll the buckwheat, the clover should stay active during this time, and you will build a lot of OM in just a few years, and the deer will eat everything you plant as well. Then just repeat every year, except the clover, just add more clover to your fall mix if it is getting thin.

That is a nice simple rotation. I thought about having a strip of clover here too, so maybe this is a good way to do it. I might split the field in half next summer and do this on one side and experiment with other mixes on the other side. That way I know I'll have something there if I have a bust on the one half.
 
I don't have a tractor yet, just an atv, disc, and sprayer. The ATV disc doesn't really work anything into the soil, more just scratches the top inch or two, so I'm not sure if it would work compost in very well.
 
My previous post has the rates I've used and my results so far. I've only mixed it with buckwheat so far, and for my soils for T&M, I'll be shooting for 20-25 lbs of each for next summer.

Thanks,

Jack
I think I'll plant sun hemp in the spring and see how it does. I can always just mix in a little in the fall if I have leftover seed and want to experiment.

What seed rate is needed for sorghum sudan grass sun hemp if I want to mix in a few other varieties for summer food attraction? I think adding some height to the mix with sun hemp and sorghum would help the plot security in the summer and get more use.
 
I just moved and am going from soil that was heavy clay to now it is pretty much a sandy beach (maybe I should have tried to find some ground in between :emoji_thinking: ha). What type of plantings have people had success with to build OM in sandy soils? I am planting winter rye ASAP mixed with some clover and peas for this fall. Not sure what to do for the spring yet.
I just want some ideas moving forward.
Also I'm planning to do everything throw and mow to retain moisture and OM.


Sounds like you need to find a cattle farmer nearby and buy some cow shit. You want pen pack beef manure and lots of it. Its gonna raise your fertility, organic matter, soil microbes, micro/macro nutrients and do wonders for your ground. You will plant for 15 years for what manure can do in a couple. I spread thick in year one and incorporate with a little tillage, and then follow up with light-moderate applications for the following 3 years.

Manure is the king builder of depleted soils. Healthier happier plants will make more roots and plant material which will eventually translate into more OM. Its a process.
 
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