First grafting questions

[Barndog56]

Making my first foray into bench grafting and wondering about a couple of things. I'll be using whip and tongue grafts. How many inches above the roots do you make your cut on the rootstock? I assume it's a good idea to leave enough room for a bud graft in case the whip and tongue does not take. But is it best to have the union low to the ground or higher off the ground?

And how many buds do you leave on the scion above the graft?

My grafts will all be planted in a nursery for the first year so I can take good care of them. When fully mature I won't have any scaffold branches below five feet. So do I snip off any branches that try to grow this first year to force growth into the central leader? Or let it grow how it wants and then prune when dormant?

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[Jhoss]

I think your first question, depends on the diameter of your scion. Match up diameters best you can on the rootstock so you get good cambium contact.

Q2...I leave two buds on the scion, three is fine, I would go no more than 4.

Q3..I would not prune any destination growth the first year. But trim off any rootstock growth - but make sure both are growing hard before you do as you dont want to kill the rootstock before the scions take. Yes, prune when dormant (the destination wood).

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yep. ^^^^ Don't prune any new growth off the grafted scion. Once you see your graft has "taken", let it grow as it wants, and watch for any new shoots coming off the rootstock. Those can be snipped off so the energy goes to the grafted scion. Just make sure the grafted scion is growing well. Like Jhoss said above - you don't want to kill the rootstock if your graft is "iffy" and not growing so hot.

The first year of growth, you don't need to be concerned about low scaffold limbs and such. There's plenty of time to shape your tree in years 2 through 6 or so. In year 2, I start to look at developing a central leader and getting it as straight as possible. Then I look to prune off any competing "would-be" leaders, so the main leader can grow upward. I don't worry about the lowest scaffold height until at least year 3 - and it depends on the growth of the tree.

I've tried to learn from Maya, Appleman, Turkey Creek, Crazy Ed and others on here to not sweat the first year or 2. The trees need to develop good, strong root systems first - so the trees need young limbs to soak up sunlight for energy.

 

[gunfun13]

Yep. ^^^^ Don't prune any new growth off the grafted scion. Once you see your graft has "taken", let it grow as it wants, and watch for any new shoots coming off the rootstock. Those can be snipped off so the energy goes to the grafted scion. Just make sure the grafted scion is growing well. Like Jhoss said above - you don't want to kill the rootstock if the your graft is "iffy" and not growing so hot.

The first year of growth, you don't need to be concerned about low scaffold limbs and such. There's plenty of time to shape your tree in years 2 through 6 or so. In year 2, I start to look at developing a central leader and getting it as straight as possible. Then I look to prune off any competing "would-be" leaders, so the main leader can grow upward. I don't worry about the lowest scaffold height until at least year 3 - and it depends on the growth of the tree.

I've tried to learn from Maya, Appleman, Turkey Creek, Crazy Ed and others on here to not sweat the first year or 2. The trees need to develop good, strong root systems first - so the trees need young limbs to soak up sunlight for energy.

So if I have 2-3 buds on a scion sending out growth I should just let them all go until dormancy then trim back to a central leader?

 

[Mortenson]

If some of my grafts have more than 4 buds on the scion, and they've been grafted now anywhere from 2-3 weeks, should I snip off the top to shorten them still? I'd seal the cut again.

 

[chickenlittle]

Shaping the scion growth is a depends for me in a nursery where i am babying them. Once i am sure it is a good graft and I've got vigorous growth, I may pinch off some competing scion growth to focus on the central leader. More common to do it with tbuds where i have 2 good buds pushing than with a bench graft.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Gunfun - I misread or misunderstood what you were saying. Once I see the graft has healed and I have good growth on the scion, I try to pick the uppermost bud that's growing ( if it's growing vigorously ), and pinch off the lower buds to let growth go upward. I'd make sure the buds are growing well, and it's not just a flush from stored carbs in the scion. I wait until I'm sure, and I have good solid vigorous growth before I pinch off the lower bud growth on the scion.

I was thinking you meant further along in the growth process, like the end of the first summer. Brain fart. I think we all pretty much end up with a whip by the end of summer - or one with 1 or 2 branches if all goes well. Speaking only for myself, I'd plant mine out the following spring and NOT prune branches off. I'd let the limbs and their leaves soak up the sun to grow the root system. If the few limbs that might be on the tree were growing vertically upward and competing with the central leader, ( after planting in final location ), I'd use limb spreaders to push those limbs down so the leader would be the one growing skyward. I don't want all the energy going to 2 or 3 competing limbs, all trying to be the leader.

I hope that's clearer. That method has worked for me. EDIT: I've only been doing this a couple years. Other more experienced guys can answer more definitively.

 

[NE PA QDM]

Im far from an expert on this but my grafting "take" rate has been increasing each year. I don't limit a scion to a specific number of buds but as mentioned above once a graft demonstrates that it has taken (vigorous green growth above the graft union) I will also gradually trim some of the shoots growing from the new scion so as to focus energy on the central leader. This could also wait until the end of the growing season but I prefer to make cuts during the summer to get the central leader as developed as possible.

 

[Barndog56]

Thanks for all the tips. Rootstocks are arriving tomorrow. Will practice later on some sticks i saved from pruning a crabapple I'm topworking in a few weeks.

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[Barndog56]

Grafted 30 today. First ones were kind of rough, but got better as I went along. B118 rootstocks from Cummins were amazing, a ton of roots. I'll take a couple pics when I do some more tomorrow.

 

[Barndog56]

Here's an average of the 60 rootstock. For the most part calipers were same size or larger than my scions from the USDA.

They also mistakenly sent me 5 of these "dwarf" rootstocks. Planted them right into rootmaker 18's with my bell peppers.

Got them all in a tote full of moist pine shavings, and covered in plastic, in a spare room that's about 50 degrees.


Now a couple more questions. Had originally planned to plant these in a raised bed with just a 1 foot by 1 foot area for each individual tree. Is that too small of a space for their first year?

And I've got six rootstocks I didn't need for the grafting so I'm going to plant those to make stool beds. How much room should I give those?

 

[Barndog56]

Bought enough rootstock to make three graphs out of each scion. The caliper on the last of the three was kind of small so I switched from a whip and tongue to a cleft graph for those.


My lab waiting for me to finish so we can go play outside in the nice weather.

 

[SmallChunk]

Looks good, make sure it gets wrapped up nice and tight!

 

[Barndog56]

Yep, used some type of rubberized masking tape they use on the paint line at work. Strong, stretchy, and only sticks to itself.

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[Wild Thing]

Very interesting Barndog - Love your lab BTW. I have never grafted anything before but I'm gearing up to begin next year. Thanks for the education.

I just ran across a good video produced by Bill Winke on Midwest Whitetail. This may be elementary for you experienced guys but I really enjoyed it and learned a lot:

http://www.midwestwhitetail.com/videos/grafting-apple-trees-swirling-winds-midwest-whitetail/ (13:29)

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Barndog - Your lab looks to be in just the right gear !!!

Nice video, Wildthing. Thanks for posting the link.

 

[Barndog56]

Today is two weeks since the first 50 were grafted, so I gave them a look to make sure they aren't drying out. I've got bud swell on almost all of the scions, but not on the rootstocks below. Is that normal at this point?


Predicting 20 mph winds tomorrow, so will probably get them planted on wednesday in the rain.

Also, I had 6 extra rootstock that I couldn't plant at the time, and haven't gotten to it yet. I'll be creating a stoolbed with them. They have sprouted and are growing like crazy. Got them in the dark so they are searching for sunlight. Do I need to ease them into full sun exposure or just get them planted?

 

[Barndog56]

I planted 25 of my grafts in the orchard today. Lots of om on top of the soil, so I set the top couple of inches to one side when digging the hole, and the sandier stuff below to the other side. Then put that om and topsoil in the bottom of the hole for the roots to get at.
Apparently my rootstock liked it in storage as many of the B118 has grown additional roots.
Once I've got the hole filled in I top it off with another inch of 3 year old horse manure and pine shavings.
Then some hay to help hold in moisture this first year, and hardware screen to keep the rabbits away.
Will put the remesh cages on the tomorrow if I have time.

 

[Wild Thing]

Great photos and explanation Barndog!

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Nice work make sure you keep them watered. You are brave to plant them so young but I like it