Cutting clover?

[ravot22]

When do you recommend cutting clover?

What are the pros and cons of cutting it now (may)? I live in central Virginia.

I have fantastic growth and in some places it's six inches tall. I usually only cut it in August.

 

[Bill]

I never cut clover on purpose. I try and clip the weeds above the clover.
Personally I think the notion of keeping clover clipped came from food plot companies. If you cut off the flowers you loose your seed bank stock. I let it go to seed.

 

[Turkey Creek]

The critters do a fair amount of clipping on a continual basis.

 

[H20fwler]

I'm all for letting the wildlife browse it down too. The flowers are a honey bee magnet and it's self reseeding like Bill said.

 

[Boll Weevil]

I maintain Durana by generally just clipping the weeds but not the clover. With timely rains, this variety will never go dormant even during the hottest summer months. It seems to do better when it's allowed to remain thick/dense and maintain moisture under a thick canopy.

 

[Peeps]

I only have a riding lawn mower for cutting and that cuts too low so I also let the critters cut it. If needed I'll get a work out and cut the weed tops with my weed wacker. My honey bees would be mad at me if I cut off their favorite flowers.

 

[yoderjac]

When do you recommend cutting clover?

What are the pros and cons of cutting it now (may)? I live in central Virginia.

I have fantastic growth and in some places it's six inches tall. I usually only cut it in August.

I'm in central VA as well. I used to worry about weeds. Mowing established clover can help with broadleaf control but does nothing to control grasses. Keep in mind that many broadleaf "weeds" can be as good or better deer food than anything we plant. Cutting clover in bloom can helps distribute seed, but once you have a well established field, additional clover more comes from the established root system and the seed still eventually makes it to the ground. Mowing can make clover a bit more tender and palatable to deer but I don't give that much weight since if deer are not eating clover, they have found something better.

Clover is the anchor of my QDM program. It provides more deer food per month per dollar than anything else I plant. I've learned that maintaining nice monoculture of clover increase the cost in mowing and herbicide cost and makes no difference to deer. I have learned to have a high tolerance for weeds. I work hard to establish an initially weed free clover field. I like Durana for our area because it only goes dormant for a very short period in dry summers and not at all when we have a little rain in the summer. It is slow to establish and is best fall planted with a winter rye nurse crop. With Durana, mowing the winter rye back several times in the first summer to release it is a key for me. I generally start with a full monoculture of Durana with no herbicides. After that first summer, I only mow once a year a few weeks before the season begins. My fields look like crap at a distance during the summer after a few years. The weeds can be thigh high but there is actually good clover underneath. When the fall rains come and the temperature drops to favor cool season plants, the clover really bounces back each fall.

I occasionally will mow an older clover field during the spring or summer before a good rain if I happen to have the time, but it is now one of the lowest priorities I have for my limited habitat and food plot time.

Keys:
- Mow with rain in the forecast if possible.
- Don't mow if the clover is under stress - Drought, herbicide damage, etc.
- If you are going to mow, don't mow too low. 8" for Ladino and 6" for Durana as a minimum.
- If no rain is in the forecast mow higher.

I think most of us start by looking at food plots and think of weeds in the same way farmers think of them; something that reduces yield. Deer are browsers, not grazers. Our food plots are a small fraction of their total diet. Few folks have a yield issue. Most folks who think they do, it is really because they have unachievable goals. If you have insufficient scale, food plots can my your land more huntable and attract deer, but you can't really feed deer or improve herd health in any meaningful way. Once you have sufficient scale to improve herd health, yield is not really an issue. In this context, the purpose of food plots are to provide quality food during periods when nature does not. So, thing that farmers consider "weeds" are not necessarily "weeds" to food plotters. Over time, my attitude toward weeds has changed.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I think most of us start by looking at food plots and think of weeds in the same way farmers think of them; something that reduces yield. Deer are browsers, not grazers. Our food plots are a small fraction of their total diet. Few folks have a yield issue. Most folks who think they do, it is really because they have unachievable goals. If you have insufficient scale, food plots can my your land more huntable and attract deer, but you can't really feed deer or improve herd health in any meaningful way. Once you have sufficient scale to improve herd health, yield is not really an issue. In this context, the purpose of food plots are to provide quality food during periods when nature does not. So, thing that farmers consider "weeds" are not necessarily "weeds" to food plotters. Over time, my attitude toward weeds has changed.

Thanks,

Jack

While I agree with Jack on the weed thing, and I am not overly worried about having a weed free food plot, I also dont want invasive's over taking my plot, regardless if the deer eat it or not. So depending on the type of weed that is coming in, will determine whether I worry about if I need to do anything about it.

The other thing I dont agree with Jack on is, the fact small plotters have no effect on a herd health. While I realize they wont live or die on what I provide, but my 3 acres of plots, and my hinge cut trees do help out the deer herd in my northern forest area. I plant stuff that comes up early in the spring to help pregnant deer get much needed nutrition, while the woods has nothing else coming up yet. I plant stuff that is high in nutrition to get the deer energy, and be able to build up some fat before the cold hard winters, and also to give the post rut bucks some much needed food, while the rest of the woods is brown, or covered with snow already. Then I have turnips and radishes for them to eat in the cold hard winters as well. In my opinion the 10-15 deer that are regulars in my food plots benefit from my food plots. Then if you add in my neighbors 5 acre corn plot he leaves for the deer for the winters, I feel we help keep the deer herd healthier. If nothing else, the 10-15 deer that are feeding on our plots, arent out competing regularly with the other deer that have found minimal winter foods to eat. Sure they could eat tree bark, and other foods they can scratch up in the winters, but when there is much easier to get food, in the hard times, they will take advantage of it. Would the herd die if I didnt have food plots, nope! But I am sure they benefit from having a nice healthy green snack come late March, early April from my food plots, rather then having to wait until May for other browse to grow. And in the fall when the woods are nothing but brown, and snow, my plots are still offering hi fat, hi in nutrient snacks for them. Myself, and a few neighbors can, and in my opinion, do make the herd healthier.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I agree with the last paragraph- ^^^^^^ - especially in areas where there are more big woods and less ag. Acorns only last for so long and if you have a bad acorn year, there isn't much to eat except browsing on twigs of some sort. They can survive on twigs, but having a few plots of winter food certainly help deer to survive in better shape. The pregnant does need extra nutrition for healthy fawns and for lactating once they're born. Our deer were hammering our mixed brassica plot and the WW / WR mixed plot all winter long.

Considering low deer numbers in various areas, coyote predation, disease, etc., the extra food sources can only help deer survival. Most of us enjoy the food plotting, fruit tree planting, & nut tree planting anyway. So why not help the deer DO BETTER than they otherwise would ??

 

[yoderjac]

While I agree with Jack on the weed thing, and I am not overly worried about having a weed free food plot, I also dont want invasive's over taking my plot, regardless if the deer eat it or not. So depending on the type of weed that is coming in, will determine whether I worry about if I need to do anything about it.

The other thing I dont agree with Jack on is, the fact small plotters have no effect on a herd health. While I realize they wont live or die on what I provide, but my 3 acres of plots, and my hinge cut trees do help out the deer herd in my northern forest area. I plant stuff that comes up early in the spring to help pregnant deer get much needed nutrition, while the woods has nothing else coming up yet. I plant stuff that is high in nutrition to get the deer energy, and be able to build up some fat before the cold hard winters, and also to give the post rut bucks some much needed food, while the rest of the woods is brown, or covered with snow already. Then I have turnips and radishes for them to eat in the cold hard winters as well. In my opinion the 10-15 deer that are regulars in my food plots benefit from my food plots. Then if you add in my neighbors 5 acre corn plot he leaves for the deer for the winters, I feel we help keep the deer herd healthier. If nothing else, the 10-15 deer that are feeding on our plots, arent out competing regularly with the other deer that have found minimal winter foods to eat. Sure they could eat tree bark, and other foods they can scratch up in the winters, but when there is much easier to get food, in the hard times, they will take advantage of it. Would the herd die if I didnt have food plots, nope! But I am sure they benefit from having a nice healthy green snack come late March, early April from my food plots, rather then having to wait until May for other browse to grow. And in the fall when the woods are nothing but brown, and snow, my plots are still offering hi fat, hi in nutrient snacks for them. Myself, and a few neighbors can, and in my opinion, do make the herd healthier.

I completely agree on invasives. I'm not suggesting we not worry about all weeds, simply that what is a weed to a farmer is anything other than what he planted which is not true for us.

What I tried to say, evidently inartfully, was that without sufficient scale, we can't make a measureable impact on herd health. Scale may include more than property you own. In order for a measurable impact on herd health, as defined by body weight and antler size (typical QDM metrics), one needs to impact a significant portion of a deer's home range. If quality food is the limiting factor for the local herd (it may or may not be), converting 1% of the home range into quality foods lets you begin to measure impact on herd health and at 3%, that impact becomes significant. Deer ranges vary with habitat quality and other factors but 1,000 acres is a reasonable average. That is 10 to 30 acres.

I am not saying that planting small food plots is not a good thing for deer and may in fact benefit some individual deer. That is different from impacting in a measureable way herd health. I'm also not saying you need to own 1,000 acres or plant 10 acres to impact herd health. Folks may have cooperating neighbors or may at least have some influence. A neighboring farm may unintentionally provide plenty of quality food for large segments of the year, and someone with small acreage may simply be plugging holes when crops are harvested. Even though their plots may only be a few acres, they are still working at scale if they use them in a way that is coordinated.

My point was that when you are working at scale, deer will never consume all of the quality food you provide because of their nature as browsers. Thus, yield is not generally the same issue for deer managers as it is for farmers. I was not trying to make a case that small plotters are not doing good things. I do believe that it is important to assess your goals with respect to the available resources (whether you own them or find creative ways to use them). Folks can do a lot with smaller parcels, but they will do best when their goals are realistic given the resources available.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

This may be a regional thing, but where my land is, the forest is either brown, or covered in snow from mid September, until May, which is well more then half the year. While deer can survive on dead vegetation, and sticks, it is not very nutritious for them, especially pregnant does, new born fawns, and post rut bucks. The dpsm changes a lot in my area, and by no means am I saying I am helping all the deer within a square mile, but when the deer winter up mid winter, you will find usually about 3-4 groups of deer, and they dont usually travel to far. So if I am getting daily pictures of the 10+ deer all winter long, and I have beds throughout my land, I would have to say they chose my land/area for a reason, most likely it is one that benefits their food needs, and can give them a little cover as well. In the northern forest area, they dont have many options for winter food, eating sticks, or digging for food in someones food plot. Within a good mile, there is one farmer with about 70 acres, and 3 hunters that plant food plots at about 3~5 acres each. All summer and fall I am sure the farmer is doing the majority of the feeding, and the one hunter/neighbor plants 5 acres of corn, and leaves it for wildlife, then after October harvest, the deer have a few scraps left over from the farmer, then the deer hit my land, and the neighbors 5 acre corn field. Not positive what the third hunter plants in his food plots. But come early spring, I have at times 20 deer eating out of my clover, and winter wheat, and winter rye plots.

 

[yoderjac]

This may be a regional thing, but where my land is, the forest is either brown, or covered in snow from mid September, until May, which is well more then half the year. While deer can survive on dead vegetation, and sticks, it is not very nutritious for them, especially pregnant does, new born fawns, and post rut bucks. The dpsm changes a lot in my area, and by no means am I saying I am helping all the deer within a square mile, but when the deer winter up mid winter, you will find usually about 3-4 groups of deer, and they dont usually travel to far. So if I am getting daily pictures of the 10+ deer all winter long, and I have beds throughout my land, I would have to say they chose my land/area for a reason, most likely it is one that benefits their food needs, and can give them a little cover as well. In the northern forest area, they dont have many options for winter food, eating sticks, or digging for food in someones food plot. Within a good mile, there is one farmer with about 70 acres, and 3 hunters that plant food plots at about 3~5 acres each. All summer and fall I am sure the farmer is doing the majority of the feeding, and the one hunter/neighbor plants 5 acres of corn, and leaves it for wildlife, then after October harvest, the deer have a few scraps left over from the farmer, then the deer hit my land, and the neighbors 5 acre corn field. Not positive what the third hunter plants in his food plots. But come early spring, I have at times 20 deer eating out of my clover, and winter wheat, and winter rye plots.

I don't disagree with any of that. Benefitting individual deer is undoubtedly a result of improving food quality regardless of the size of the plot. I'm differentiating that from improving herd health in a measureable way. Herding and yarding are more known in the north, but we get some herding down here as well in the winter. I find the less quality food that is available, the more herding I see focused on the quality food that is available.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Between the farm I hunt and two other bordering landowners that have been planting food plots there has without a doubt been an increase in antler size after we stared or plot programs than we had before we started plotting. The farm I hunt is 300 acres and the bordering farms are around that same size. All of our food plotting is directed toward feeding deer in the winter months. The majority of the ag land is a desert of black dirt with little waste grain by mid November. When deer go into the antler building season in better health they grow bigger antlers. It has been obvious for us.

Jack is right on the money when he talks about browsing and plots not making up a large portion of their diet. However, and it may be different for us up in Northern regions, the deer feed heavily on food plots all winter long. I plant a fair amount of clover but it is more to feed my chicory (which the deer use more from my experience) and provide N to other crops when I rotate.

I like Soybeans but with the limited amount of land to plant it is usually gone by the first of the year. Which is perfect for me because the deer where I hunt usually dont touch the rape,turnips,and radishes until mid winter when the hunting season is long over. (the radish tops do get some use during the hunting season) I dont have cages on my clover and I dont put cameras out in the spring but I dont notice all that much use even though they are the first food available.

 

[yoderjac]

Between the farm I hunt and two other bordering landowners that have been planting food plots there has without a doubt been an increase in antler size after we stared or plot programs than we had before we started plotting. The farm I hunt is 300 acres and the bordering farms are around that same size. All of our food plotting is directed toward feeding deer in the winter months. The majority of the ag land is a desert of black dirt with little waste grain by mid November. When deer go into the antler building season in better health they grow bigger antlers. It has been obvious for us.

Jack is right on the money when he talks about browsing and plots not making up a large portion of their diet. However, and it may be different for us up in Northern regions, the deer feed heavily on food plots all winter long. I plant a fair amount of clover but it is more to feed my chicory (which the deer use more from my experience) and provide N to other crops when I rotate.

I like Soybeans but with the limited amount of land to plant it is usually gone by the first of the year. Which is perfect for me because the deer where I hunt usually dont touch the rape,turnips,and radishes until mid winter when the hunting season is long over. (the radish tops do get some use during the hunting season) I dont have cages on my clover and I dont put cameras out in the spring but I dont notice all that much use even though they are the first food available.

Good points. Also, in many cases, quality food is not the limiting factor on antler size specifically, it is age. That is also something that requires scale. Regardless of what you plant, if you can't influence harvest on the home range of deer, and young bucks are not protected, you will never improve antler size.

There are so many factors that influence the deer herd, it is often hard to parse out how any one practice affects them. Nothing is static. Anecdotal observation can be very misleading. The only real way to know how well any overall program is working is by collecting a statistically significant amount of harvest data and biological samples and analyzing and trending it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[JT's Outdoors]

Clipping clovers keeps the plan much more nutritious and palatable which is the whole point of planting them. If you let them grow to maturity you lose tons per acre of great quality forage.

When you do clip it, never cut more than half and never go less than 6" as you will be setting the roots back.

It's much more cost effective to utilize the young grow abd top dress with seed if necessary rather than use your clovers for a seed source.

 

[yoderjac]

Clipping clovers keeps the plan much more nutritious and palatable which is the whole point of planting them. If you let them grow to maturity you lose tons per acre of great quality forage.

When you do clip it, never cut more than half and never go less than 6" as you will be setting the roots back.

It's much more cost effective to utilize the young grow abd top dress with seed if necessary rather than use your clovers for a seed source.

Tonnage certainly is not the point of the clover I plant. Tons per acre is important for grazing animals like cattle that will use it, but not deer. Deer are browsers. Our food plots are a small fraction of their overall diet. The point of the clover I plant it to provide a quality food source at times when quality native foods are scarce. In my area, clover provides more deer food over a longer period than anything else I plant. It is the anchor of our program. Sure, I plant soybeans to cover our summer stress period when clover can go dormant, but for the rest of the year, clover is available here.

The only tonnage that matters to me is the tonnage that ends up in the bellies of deer. Deer are browsers. Yes, they may feed in a clover field for a bit, but they don't stay and eat all the clover. In a weedy clover field, deer will often eat and benefit as much or more from broadleaf "weeds" like pokeweed, ragweed, and many others. I used to have clean clover fields that I mowed regularly. I found over time that these are much more costly to maintain and provide deer no more benefit, and often less, than a diversity of weeds from my native seed bank growing with a good clover base.

Different regions may do better with differences in strategies, but what works best here is for me to start with a weed free field by planting perennial clover in the fall with a Winter Rye nurse crop. I mow the first spring as needed to release the clover and allow it to establish weed free. No herbicides. After that, I mow once per year, right before our fall season, just as cooler, wetter, weather is favoring clover over summer weeds. It takes several years for weeds to start invading. Then, you would not even know a field was a clover field in the summer looking at it from a distance. After fall mowing, clover bounces back and becomes lush again. At somewhere around the 8 to 10 year mark, we weeds will finally take over. At that point, 1 qt/ac gly will eliminate most of the weeds and give me 3-5 years more form the field before rotation is needed.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bill]

Everyone has their method. I mowed 8 plots today, 1 to do tomorrow. Usually I like to do it earlier but weather made that hard. I use chemicals ever few years and a mower. But I try not to cut the clover this late, I cut above it because I want my flower seed.

This plot is 8 years old and was mowed today.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I'm with some folks above who mow clover high but do it whenever I have to try and stay ahead of thistle and knapweed getting too far along and making seed. Mow somewhere around 9-10 inches but will scalp lower if weeds are really bad in spots. I had a spot I just wanted to roll down the rye in August which was planted with clover the fall before and get free rye reseed but weeds had other plans. First mowed just the perimeter and finally recently the whole plot a couple of weeks later.

Clover is a main part of my plots and utilized well from spring into mid summer and back again from fall into early winter and beyond if the snow depths are light. I think folks up north do not have to worry about mowing clover too much with good rains, I mow to keep thistlemania and junk from taking over but never get it all cause too many rocks and boulders outside the plot areas to rebuild numbers so a constant battle.

Another clover patch nearby has gotten lots of use from a bunch youngsters since April.

 

[Bill]

Another clover patch nearby has gotten lots of use from a bunch youngsters since April.

Wow that looks lush. Starting to get hot and dry here in MO clovers starting to get crunchy in the direct sun.

 

[Someday isle]

While I have some nice videos of deer eating the clover in my food plot trails it was getting pretty "brown and crunchy" as Bill says. There are some weeds in my clover but not bad enough for me to take the risk of mowing it with a heat spell about to hit my part of Missouri over the next two weeks.