Cuddeback's Cuddelink

[Peplin Creek]

They don't have a port to charge internal batteries like some cameras do. But it does have 6v 2amp DC jack where you can hook up cuddeback's battery pack or rig your own 6v battery setup to it and charge that with a solar panel. It's not any different than most of what the industry is doing now.

 

[Buckly]

For "data" collection and to satisfy our curiosity and reduce our disturbance, I get the huge advantages of this system. If it works as advertised I would like to have the system on my property. One question I'd like to bring up: Is anyone concerned about the ethics, or just say the "fair chase" aspects of having this system. Does it take something away from the hunt? Having real-time surveillance can't help but affect your hunting strategies. Are you going to the north 40 stand when you know the old bruiser was just spotted at the south end food plot? It just doesn't seem right...

I see what you're saying but, isn't that what trail cams are for? To see what's out there and what's going on. What would be your opinion if you were just out checking SD cards and you saw info on the cam that led you to believe a target buck was showing up there every day. Would you set up there that day? In reality the only "real time" there is, is when you're actually sitting there. Else it's just recent time, and there could never be a conclusion that's 100%. You're still just playing the odds.

 

[yoderjac]

They don't have a port to charge internal batteries like some cameras do. But it does have 6v 2amp DC jack where you can hook up cuddeback's battery pack or rig your own 6v battery setup to it and charge that with a solar panel. It's not any different than most of what the industry is doing now.

Thanks! That is important. If they have the ability to add external power, I wonder why Mark doesn't plan to offer a user selectable transmit resolution as an advanced option. The only downside I can see to transmitting larger pictures is power consumption and if the user can deal with that through the port, why not?

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Peplin Creek]

Thanks! That is important. If they have the ability to add external power, I wonder why Mark doesn't plan to offer a user selectable transmit resolution as an advanced option. The only downside I can see to transmitting larger pictures is power consumption and if the user can deal with that through the port, why not?

Thanks,

Jack

If I had to guess it could be a couple of things, this is their first iteration so I am guessing at this point they are releasing what they feel is a necessity to get the product out the door. From there the market will determine which direction to go. 2nd thing might just be it's a limitation of the network and sending full size images might slow it down? It might be fine for a couple cameras but maybe an issue if you get to 12-15 cameras on one network. That's all speculative though and have zero facts to back that statement up. I think it's important to remember, as someone who is in the software industry like myself, technology is always changing and rarely are first iterations, the final iteration. so I do think over the course of time, things will evolve and mature and updated will be done, whether that will ever be full Rez images, who knows.

 

[yoderjac]

If I had to guess it could be a couple of things, this is their first iteration so I am guessing at this point they are releasing what they feel is a necessity to get the product out the door. From there the market will determine which direction to go. 2nd thing might just be it's a limitation of the network and sending full size images might slow it down? It might be fine for a couple cameras but maybe an issue if you get to 12-15 cameras on one network. That's all speculative though and have zero facts to back that statement up. I think it's important to remember, as someone who is in the software industry like myself, technology is always changing and rarely are first iterations, the final iteration. so I do think over the course of time, things will evolve and mature and updated will be done, whether that will ever be full Rez images, who knows.

You are right, the more data you send, the slower it gets, but really that is not a big issue. Whether a particular picture takes 5 seconds, 5 minutes or 5 hours to get back it doesn't much matter. If it takes 5 days or 5 weeks, that is a problem but with a user selectable transmit resolution, you simply reduce it to meet your needs. The amount of data transmitted is just one more parameter that affects network speeds. Mark did say that they have no plans for it. Power consumption would be a bigger concern. Folks will find that RF transmission is challenging. They are most like focused on the higher volume market and really focusing on plug and play at the expense of increased functionality for a smaller market.

I'm looking forward to your deployment and report over time. While it isn't a fit more my data application, I have another application where it may fit, even with the thumbnails.

Thanks,

jack

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I like the option that Covert has, where the pictures all come in on low res, but if there is a picture you want at high res, you request a high res picture and it will send you the one you requested it for. I dont like the fact they charge me extra to send me one, but I like the option. At first I thought it was a cool thing, and I would request a bunch, then over time, I just relate back to, that seems like a nice one, and I dont have a need to see the high res. Although, I do use a couple for security purpose, and if someone was to break in, or steal stuff, I would sure like the option for a high res picture sent to me.

 

[Peplin Creek]

I was able to deploy my first camera today. The home unit is on a small food plot right inside the property. From there the remote camera was deployed approximately 850 feet away through all forest, popple thicket about 20ft tall and tall pine trees with a lot of small saplings growing underneath them. When I got to the spot my signal strength was anywhere from 32% - 40%. Cuddeback recommends not going below 20%. I feel like approximately 1/4 mile is an accurate statement for distances in timber as I could have kept going. My ground is relatively flat, just all trees... I will say this. When I first went to set this up, I took a detour to a food plot about 700 feet away and my signal strength was right around 30%. As soon as I entered back into the timber and continued on my way to its final destination. The signal strength got stronger again even though I was further away so that's interesting. So for me I have deployed 3/4 of the way across 40 acres. Any camera from there on out that will connect to the network on that 40 will connect to the home unit or the remote unit. I shouldn't have an issue "wiring" back home. Can't wait to see how it functions moving forward. So far so good.

 

[yoderjac]

I was able to deploy my first camera today. The home unit is on a small food plot right inside the property. From there the remote camera was deployed approximately 850 feet away through all forest, popple thicket about 20ft tall and tall pine trees with a lot of small saplings growing underneath them. When I got to the spot my signal strength was anywhere from 32% - 40%. Cuddeback recommends not going below 20%. I feel like approximately 1/4 mile is an accurate statement for distances in timber as I could have kept going. My ground is relatively flat, just all trees... I will say this. When I first went to set this up, I took a detour to a food plot about 700 feet away and my signal strength was right around 30%. As soon as I entered back into the timber and continued on my way to its final destination. The signal strength got stronger again even though I was further away so that's interesting. So for me I have deployed 3/4 of the way across 40 acres. Any camera from there on out that will connect to the network on that 40 will connect to the home unit or the remote unit. I shouldn't have an issue "wiring" back home. Can't wait to see how it functions moving forward. So far so good.

Great report! Keep in mind that signal levels are not fixed based on location. I find signal levels between radios will vary based on dynamic weather conditions. They can vary from day to night. Rain can be a significant factor. Water can provide a lot of attenuation. So, dry air can give you a better connection than moist air. When you have dry weather for a while, the water content in vegetation can drop and then increase again when it rains. With deciduous vegetation, you'll get better levels in the fall and winter as water content in the leaves drops without respect to rain. This is one reason why young pines are so problematic they are evergreen and hold a lot of water.

When you say things seem to be less than intuitive as to when signal levels change, you are spot on. One interesting experience I had was a case on the pine farm where I had a windy road going through the pines. It seems that even though I did not have anything close to line of sight, the signal was ducted along that road allowing for much greater distances. Flat is a good thing. Once thing you can't do is transmit through any ground. It is a complete block.

That 20% recommendation is likely reasonable based on the variability of environmental factors and the affect on batteries when signal levels drop. Low signal levels can mean dropped packets which requite retransmission. That eats power. Even when the protocol is smart enough to test levels and wait, that level testing consumes power and pictures queue up in the mean time. I have found that if I set up with connectivity but low enough signal levels, battery consumption is significantly greater. (Keep in mind that my system uses full resolution so the issue is much greater even with the additional power availability).

One thing you might consider is making a map. One of the things I did when I first got the BEC Orion system was to setup my PC base and antenna at camp and then drive around the property on an ATV with a camera and an antenna on a 10' mast. I recorded signal levels at various spots on the property along with the GPS locations. I then put those locations with the signal levels on a map of my farm with imagery and topography overlaid. It was an enlightening exercise. Once determining where I wanted repeater locations, I set them up and did the drive around with another camera going through them.



Thanks,

Jack

 

[Peplin Creek]

One thing you might consider is making a map. One of the things I did when I first got the BEC Orion system was to setup my PC base and antenna at camp and then drive around the property on an ATV with a camera and an antenna on a 10' mast. I recorded signal levels at various spots on the property along with the GPS locations. I then put those locations with the signal levels on a map of my farm with imagery and topography overlaid. It was an enlightening exercise. Once determining where I wanted repeater locations, I set them up and did the drive around with another camera going through them.

Yeah, this is a really good idea, as I get more cameras and they come out with their cell plan unit, I will probably flip the property, cell reception is better on one end than the other. It would be really nice to map out the network first and then roll it out.

 

[Red Picqua]

Thanks for the clarification. I only use video when trying to capture behavior for a hunter education class, but never for data collection. It is not practical. A couple rapid stills have higher resolution and can capture all the data I need and require much less analysis time for data extraction and require much less storage.

Perhaps the reason you can't see it difficult to identify individual bucks is the short range PIR. The closer the subject is to the camera and the more light available, the less resolution that is required. (Keep in mind that there is a difference between what most companies advertise as resolution which is often interpolated and the native resolution of the image sensor used). With a camera with a long-range PIR, I often get triggers at 40 yards and sometimes even at 60. At low light and depending on position, it can even be difficult to distinguish small bucks from does.

As for flash avoidance, I have the data to show it statistically. This is one of those unknown unknowns until you look for it in the data. I first found this when black flash was just coming out. I found that with the same IR cameras, over bait, I would get repeated pictures of mature bucks, but over small fields, I'd get only one or two pictures of the buck and never again. Eventually, I started to dig up old pictures and scrub them to try to understand this. It turns out that if I was using bait, even mature bucks would accept the risk of the camera to get it. However in a small field, they learned not to trigger the camera. They did not spook or leave the area, they simply kept their distance and kept other deer between them and the perceived danger (flash). When I scrubbed old pictures, I found some of those bucks on the fringe of the flash when the camera was triggered by young deer. Next, I compared a BEC (wireless running unattended for months removing human scent as an issue) with Red Blob to the newer version with Black Flash. I eventually swapped the position of the cameras to remove that bias. I consistently got more repeat pictures of mature bucks using the Black Flash camera.

One more item of interest. When I looked at the data closely, I found mature bucks were closer to black flash cameras during the daytime as well. The physical form of the camera can be an issue when they are moved from place to place frequently, but for cameras in permanent positions, mature bucks seem to acclimate to the camera form but not the Red Blob flash. With a red blob flash, mature bucks seemed to remember and keep more distance from the camera even during the day. With the black flash version, they seem to ignore it day and night.

One note here, deer behavior has a lot of variation. And that variation may be greater from area to area. Here, there is a significant statistical difference between how deer react to red blob and true black flash.

One final note: When I say True Black Flash, I'm referring to a flash that is not detected by deer. Detection is a function of three factors, wavelength (frequency), intensity, and duration. Some cameras that advertise invisible flash are clearly visible and can be detected. At what point the level of visibility is ignored by mature bucks is not established. I would suspect that the less visible the more they ignore it but I don't know if it is linear or a step function.

Great discussion and keep reporting on your system! While you've already shared enough to make it clear it is not a fit for my application, it may be a great fit for others!

Thanks,

jack

to even make a comment that you have data to determine flash avoidance with deer and your camera set ups look like this is almost comical. You posted this on another thread.

I believe you might be able to see this set up if you zoom in on google earth. Generally I try to make my cameras as discrete as possible, you are obviously in the camp of raise a tower and set up a solar panel and place guide wires out to stabilize the antenna mast. I would hate to be 100 yards near that thing in a lighting storm.

 

[Red Picqua]

You cant clear images on the remote cameras from the home camera. Each remote camera must have an sd card inserted in it to transmit images. Even a 4gb card will hold thousands of images. One will have to decide per each situation the size of the card needed in the remote camera, i think an 8 would work in most instances with a 16 or 32 covering almost any situation. The camera report image below has an 8gb card in it.
I clear my images on the remote camera when i swap out batteries. Your home camera should have a larger card in it so it cant fill up if you wont check it for long periods of time. Each camera users situation is different so you need to adjust your card sizes and battery choices according to your needs.
If camera 4 or the home camera becomes in operable, the remote cameras will hold the images in the "que" until the home camera is operable , It will then send the images to the home camera. I have taken my home camera with me on a trip and when i returned and turned the home unit back on the remote cams started sending the images to it. This is after having the home camera off or away for a week. It will take some time... but it will get it done. You could also switch one of the remote cameras to the home unit which is done in settings in less than a minute.
Keep in mind the report image for each camera including the home camera tells you all the info you need to know each time you check the home camera sd card so you will know how much room is on the cards , how many pics are on them , battery life, etc.
View attachment 14277

Thank you for the reply. Seems like a slick system and definitely one that is more affordable too. I would agree that having a 16gb card in the remote cameras would be more than enough. I also agree that I have NO interest in having high resolution images of the other cameras other than when I pull or swap the cards. It's a scouting tool and it sounds like it will give me the level of information that I will need from a distance. Great information and thank you.

although.. it would be nice to delete them remotely, but not a deal killer.

 

[yoderjac]

To begin with, that was not one of the cameras used for flash avoidance setup. Secondly, mature bucks acclimate to physical structure over time. Physical form avoidance or scent avoidance occurs with a short term change in environment. This is much like you noticing something is wrong when you get home and the furniture has been rearranged by your wife while you were on travel. Or you get home and get a whiff of bleach she was using to clean the kitchen. 6 months after the furniture has been rearranged, you pay it no attention.

In order to test flash avoidance, you need to control for physical avoidance. That can be done without regard to the physical form of the cameras as long as they have all been in place for enough time and the area undisturbed by human scent so they simply become part of the deer's environment. Differences in reaction to dynamic changes in the environment like flash type can then be evaluated without respect to physical form.

By the why, while the large solar panel is new, the structure has been in place for years, and yes, mature bucks walk right up to it. The antenna masts are grounded as they are supposed to be. Lightning is attracted when there is an electrical potential difference which grounding mitigates.

As for concealing cameras, that is a great strategy for hunters who are trying to see what is out there. Rubber boots and gloves helps with that too. For folks collecting trending data who have cameras in permanent positions for years on end, concealment is of little value.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[swat1018]

to even make a comment that you have data to determine flash avoidance with deer and your camera set ups look like this is almost comical. You posted this on another thread.

I believe you might be able to see this set up if you zoom in on google earth. Generally I try to make my cameras as discrete as possible, you are obviously in the camp of raise a tower and set up a solar panel and place guide wires out to stabilize the antenna mast. I would hate to be 100 yards near that thing in a lighting storm.

View attachment 14349

LOL, maybe he is receiving images from the space station!

 

[Red Picqua]

To begin with, that was not one of the cameras used for flash avoidance setup. Secondly, mature bucks acclimate to physical structure over time. Physical form avoidance or scent avoidance occurs with a short term change in environment. This is much like you noticing something is wrong when you get home and the furniture has been rearranged by your wife while you were on travel. Or you get home and get a whiff of bleach she was using to clean the kitchen. 6 months after the furniture has been rearranged, you pay it no attention.

In order to test flash avoidance, you need to control for physical avoidance. That can be done without regard to the physical form of the cameras as long as they have all been in place for enough time and the area undisturbed by human scent so they simply become part of the deer's environment. Differences in reaction to dynamic changes in the environment like flash type can then be evaluated without respect to physical form.

By the why, while the large solar panel is new, the structure has been in place for years, and yes, mature bucks walk right up to it. The antenna masts are grounded as they are supposed to be. Lightning is attracted when there is an electrical potential difference which grounding mitigates.

As for concealing cameras, that is a great strategy for hunters who are trying to see what is out there. Rubber boots and gloves helps with that too. For folks collecting trending data who have cameras in permanent positions for years on end, concealment is of little value.

Thanks,

Jack

different strokes for different folks. I would never place that set up on my land. I do everything in my power to conceal and make my presence unknown. I make sure that my blinds are very much high in the air and the cameras are as hidden as possible. I am not perfect in the woods but I work very hard to make as little impact when I step in their world. We just have a different view of hunting. I view hunting as taking every precaution in the world to avoid detection and make sure everything always looks the same no matter what. I don't like or follow the camp of they will get accustomed to the large solar array at the Arecibo Observatory you call a hunting blind.

I just didn't like your comment on the flash avoidance in deer when you have a set up like that.

 

[yoderjac]

different strokes for different folks. I would never place that set up on my land. I do everything in my power to conceal and make my presence unknown. I make sure that my blinds are very much high in the air and the cameras are as hidden as possible. I am not perfect in the woods but I work very hard to make as little impact when I step in their world. We just have a different view of hunting. I view hunting as taking every precaution in the world to avoid detection and make sure everything always looks the same no matter what. I don't like or follow the camp of they will get accustomed to the large solar array at the Arecibo Observatory you call a hunting blind.

I just didn't like your comment on the flash avoidance in deer when you have a set up like that.

I don't think we have a different view of hunting. My bowhunting is done just as you describe with a little impact as possible. I'm not using trail cameras for hunting. We have different purposes when it comes to trial camera use. In my case, they are primarily used for collection of trending data for QDM decision, not as a hunting tool. That is not to say one can not derive hunting information from them, but that is not their purpose. They are designed to run 24/7/365 to collect data that for trending analysis.

The large elevated blinds were designed for a very different purpose. The primary purpose of those was to introduce kids to hunting. I also had an older buddy with replaced knees who had difficulty getting around. I've got another buddy closing in on 90 who is still hunting. The second purpose was to let them extend their hunting as long as possible. Finally, as I get older, I won't be able to climb trees. My arthritis has already caused me to begin my transition from hang-on style stands to ladder stands.

Don't get me wrong. I've never killed a mature buck from one of those box blinds but some of my best hunts have occurred from them. Seeing an 8 year old harvest their first deer, regardless of age or sex, is more enjoyable to me than all the mature bucks I've ever harvested with my bow.

You may not have liked the flash avoidance comment, but the data backs it up. Again, as someone else pointed out, there is a large variation in risk assessment between individual deer. Flash avoidance does not mean that mature bucks will leave the area. It does not mean that some mature bucks won't avoid the flash. It simply means that on a statistical basis, once mature bucks trigger a visible flash camera a few times a higher percentage of them will avoid triggering the camera again compared to young bucks and does. This is not necessarily important to a hunter, but it is important when doing data analysis.

We may be less different than you think and just in different places in our hunting journey. There was a time when harvesting mature bucks where minimal disturbance was a driving goal for me. I eventually bought some land and my focus changed to a broader perspective and became more focused on wildlife management. We manage the property for a balance of timber value, QDM, and introducing new folks to hunting. Even within QDM my focus has been evolving over time. I started with high intensity high input techniques and am evolving toward more sustainable long-term permaculture approaches.

As for mature bucks acclimating, you should chat with guys who hunt the suburbs. Years ago I was one of the founding members of a suburban archery organization. I have a lot of experience with deer acclimating not only to structure, but to people, dogs, traffic, and much more. You would be amazed as to what they can acclimate to when it becomes a permanent part of their environment.

Thanks,

jack

 

[Red Picqua]

all good.. you can hunt your way and I will hunt the NON-acclimated way. You should try to hook up a ham radio or a TV antenna to that blind. At least you could communicate with people all around the world and catch some re-runs of All in the Family while you are hunting.

 

[yoderjac]

all good.. you can hunt your way and I will hunt the NON-acclimated way. You should try to hook up a ham radio or a TV antenna to that blind. At least you could communicate with people all around the world and catch some re-runs of All in the Family while you are hunting.

No such luck...I won't even let the kids use there cell phones while they hunt. Attention span is very short with kids these days. I did however add a urinal to a couple of these. I had an issue that limited my hunting for a bit and they allowed me to hunt some. Fortunately, surgery solved that issue (at least for now...).

I agree...all is good...folks can hunt very differently and still be part of the same community.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[alldaysit]

I've seen what I believed was or is camera avoidance. I now put my IR cameras as high as I can put them up, typically 7 feet. The black flash can be put anywhere.

And Mark, thank you for posting. I look forward to using some of your cams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

I've seen what I believed was or is camera avoidance. I now put my IR cameras as high as I can put them up, typically 7 feet. The black flash can be put anywhere.

And Mark, thank you for posting. I look forward to using some of your cams.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, that is one technique many folks use. The advantage is that it seems to reduce or in some cases eliminate flash avoidance (at least with most red blob). The disadvantage is that it can reduce the detection area of the camera. It seems to work better for cameras with shorter range wider PIR sensors or when used on point source targets like scrapes and rubs.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Peplin Creek]

Yeah camera avoidance is real and I think deer easily get acclimated to their Suroundings. Black flash is something I am switching to because it seems to help. I have some residential houses around where I hunt and deer are used to people driving atvs, chainsaws, leaf blowers etc. i also dont take my stands down and year after year, they still produce. So I think they have a good idea of what is and isn't a threat.