Crossbow Recommendation?

[yoderjac]

I know "string jumping" is real, and also believe it's nothing more than a startled deer loading up its muscles to make a quick get away. I have just never experienced it.

You nailed it, that is exactly what it is.

 

[H20fwler]

There is also a distance effect. Out to 20 yards, there is probably not a whole lot of string jumping that goes on regardless of how fast a bow you're shooting. The farther out the deer is, the more time it takes for the arrow to get there, the more a deer can drop. A faster arrow will reduce the amount of drop a deer can pull off compared to a slow arrow.

Growing Deer TV just posted an interesting episode that includes some revealing research regarding the ability of a deer to jump a string. Fascinating stuff.

Growing Deer TV

I agree, under twenty yards any type of string jump should be a non issue.
That said I'm still all about getting my bow as quiet as I can even though I know I wont shoot past thirty yards with 99% of my shots being ten yards or less.
I practice at sixty yards all the time and have shot compound for over forty years and am very confident in my shooting but the further away a deer is the more that can go wrong...and I just haven't had to try long shots.

I think the hottest crossbows right now are the Ravin and Ten Point, my oldest son is looking into upgrading his.

 

[Telemark]

I have used two Excalibur recurve crossbows, and bothwere excellent. I will be buying one ofnthe newer models probably next year. It's what I would recommend for your purposes. You can restring them in the field, which is impossible with compounds. They are tough and extremely low-maintenance.

I have heard good things about the Mission Sub One from people who shoot it, but a compound doesn't suit my needs.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I really have no problem with more research into understanding the factors involved. I think the issues boil down to this. Deer are clearly capable of those large drops as that video shows. By the way, that particular deer appeared very calm prior to arrow release. It is certainly not the only video showing string jumping. I'm not at all suggesting that particular example is the norm. It simply shows capability of deer to react to the sound of a bow in their danger proximity zone.

I have a pretty low tolerance for wounding deer, so if I know deer are capable of this, I want to do everything I can to minimize it. What I meant to says was that more research is not needed to understand what deer are capable of when it comes to string jumping and we should make our choices based on that. More research into understanding the triggers, conditions, and mechanisms of string jumping are definitely worthwhile.

Agree completely.

I know "string jumping" is real, and also believe it's nothing more than a startled deer loading up its muscles to make a quick get away. I have just never experienced it.

Exactly. I have never experienced it either. But then again, I keep my shots under 25 yards, I shoot a quiet bow, and if I sense the deer is wound up or tense or "pre-loaded" in any way, I decline the shot.

 

[yoderjac]

I have used two Excalibur recurve crossbows, and bothwere excellent. I will be buying one ofnthe newer models probably next year. It's what I would recommend for your purposes. You can restring them in the field, which is impossible with compounds. They are tough and extremely low-maintenance.

I have heard good things about the Mission Sub One from people who shoot it, but a compound doesn't suit my needs.

The last Excalibur I shot sounded like a .22

 

[Big Snow Man]

The last Excalibur I shot sounded like a .22

So what’s your point they still kill a bunch of deer each year.

 

[yoderjac]

So what’s your point they still kill a bunch of deer each year.

Evidently no point... unless you have a low tolerance for wounding.

 

[hillHuntR]

I am not sure what to make of all the worries over bow noise. It seems deer jump strings, but they never have when my "loud" and slowest Excalibur goes off at around 270fps. Considering louder xbows to be deer wounders is so far from the truth in our experience. 3 others in my family hunt with them no problem and have for years along with many thousands of other hunters. Skittish public land deer and private both. They seem to know they are hit after the arrow is buried in the dirt. We dont shoot past 40 yards though (my fastest bow can hit 370fps). Even a blazin fast bow isnt doing its advertised speed 20 yards from the archer, and most never come close with a hunting weight arrow....shooting too far and not knowing distance to target are the biggest wounders of deer in my opinion. No crossbow shoots a very flat trajectory

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[Catscratch]

Evidently no point... unless you have a low tolerance for wounding.

Soooo, unless a person has the absolute quietest bow available they are ok with wounding deer? I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few among us who have a very low tolerance for wounding deer but have 10yr old (or older) technology in hand that isn't even close to industry leading quiet. I for one tend compensate for the equipment I use by adjusting the range I'm willing to shoot at an animal. Kind of negative comment if you ask me. ;)

 

[SwampCat]

My Ravin sounds like a .22. I blame the crossbow companies - and Ravin in particular - by inferring crossbows are 100 yard weapons. They had so much more to offer - light weight, small footprint, decocking available, sting guard, cant fire unless arrow properly seated, fast - but they choose to show shooting at a 100 yard target. I don't have a crossbow to extend my range - I have a crossbow to offer me the opportunity to hunt on the ground in areas I cant hunt with a tree stand - or use a scope to buy fifteen minutes in the morning and fifteen minutes in the evening with my old eyes. I don't think the noise at firing is going to result in more string jumping at normal bow ranges - but these things are sold as range extenders - and a lot of folks buy them for that.

 

[yoderjac]

Soooo, unless a person has the absolute quietest bow available they are ok with wounding deer? I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few among us who have a very low tolerance for wounding deer but have 10yr old (or older) technology in hand that isn't even close to industry leading quiet. I for one tend compensate for the equipment I use by adjusting the range I'm willing to shoot at an animal. Kind of negative comment if you ask me. ;)

That is a mischaracterization of what I was saying. I'm simply saying this:

- A loud bow (of any kind) is a trigger for string jumping.
- Not every deer reacts the same but some will clearly jump the string.
- Deer have the capability of moving more than the size of the kill zone by the time an arrow arrives from the fastest crossbow.
- This condition will result in arrow impacts outside the kill zone.
- If one's tolerance for wounding is high enough none of this matters to them.
- If one has a low tolerance for wounding, they will do several things:
- Only shoot at deer that appear calm.
- Limit shooting distance to compensate for the most limiting factor of:
- Their personal shooting skills
- Ranging Error / Depth of Kill
- Deer Demeanor
- Deer position relative to the hunter
- Weather Conditions
- Vegetation
- Property Type
- Choose an equipment combination that balances speed with silence
- Limit shot selection to high probability angles.

Bowhunting by its very nature, risks wounding deer. Even when we do everything in our power to limit wounding, it will still happen on occasion. Choosing a quiet setup that minimizes string jumping is only one factor, but an important one. Different hunters have different ethical standards. I don't expect everyone to have the same standard I set for myself.

I know folks who regularly kill deer at 50+ yards. I know folks who take head on shots and who intentionally take spine shots and kill lots of deer. They have a different tolerance for wounding than I do. I'm not criticizing them for it, just trying to educate them. Most believe they will kill the deer when they release the arrow.

When I was much younger, I could easily get 6" groups at 50 yards on the range. I believed 35 or 40 yards would be a chip shot. It took me quite a few years and quite a few blood trails that didn't end at a dead deer for me to check my ego and realize that there are so many factors outside our control in the field that performance on the range is not an indication of performance in the field.

These days I limit myself to 20 - 25 yards with a compound taking only broadside and slightly quartering away shots. With a crossbow I limit it to 30 yards. Beyond that too many things can go wrong. I do everything I can before I have an interaction with a deer to improve my odds of a clean kill. In some cases I use marking flags for range. In others, I laser range trees and memorize the distances while waiting for deer. Equipment selection, maintenance, and preseason practice is a must for me.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

You missed a bullet...
- don't use Excalibur crossbows.

I was just ribbing ya. I figured your post was prompted from a previous post. After reading some of your response I guess I was wrong.
:)

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[yoderjac]

You missed a bullet...
- don't use Excalibur crossbows.

I was just ribbing ya. I figured your post was prompted from a previous post. After reading some of your response I guess I was wrong.
:)

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I was just happy for the opportunity to lay out that broader perspective.

One more interesting thing on string jumping. This is just my anecdotal experience, but I find that bucks don't jump the string nearly as much or frequently than does. I don't know if this is just in my area or of other folks have similar experiences.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Catscratch]

You missed a bullet...
- don't use Excalibur crossbows.

I was just ribbing ya. I figured your post was prompted from a previous post. After reading some of your response I guess I was wrong.
:)

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

I was just happy for the opportunity to lay out that broader perspective.

One more interesting thing on string jumping. This is just my anecdotal experience, but I find that bucks don't jump the string nearly as much or frequently than does. I don't know if this is just in my area or of other folks have similar experiences.

Thanks,

Jack

I've always thought bucks were easy to kill compared to does. Does are wary, sly, jumpy, and accompanied by several sets of eyes. Bucks are usually distracted or focused on a single thing when they come through.

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[S.T.Fanatic]

Soooo, unless a person has the absolute quietest bow available they are ok with wounding deer? I'm willing to bet that there are quite a few among us who have a very low tolerance for wounding deer but have 10yr old (or older) technology in hand that isn't even close to industry leading quiet. I for one tend compensate for the equipment I use by adjusting the range I'm willing to shoot at an animal. Kind of negative comment if you ask me. ;)

I have what is considered an old bow. Bowtec Invasion which i believe i bought in 2011. I shoot a heavy FMJ arrow and never shoot with my quiver attached. Not saying that it is the quietest bow out there but I cant see a brand new model being more than a couple decibles quieter.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Itch growing by the day to make a purchase but still haven't pulled the trigger... ooops... make that cocked the crossbow just quite yet.

One more question that will likely be last before making a purchase, and it's largely driven by all of the discussion of noise.

One factor I've been weighing as a reason to get a crossbow has been to minimize spooking game nearby... I'm NOT talking about deer / game in the IMMEDIATE vicinity, but instead since I hunt a somewhat modestly sized chunk of land (112 acres) I'd love to be able to shoot at a pig that might come out during deer season or a solitary doe during a doe day without alarming an old buck that might be spending time on the property elsewhere 500 yards away.

Neighboring property owners don't typically shoot any closer to my place than 1000 yards but the crack of a .270 at that distant is quite easy for me to hear on my stand. Appreciate from the comments that a crossbow is quite louder than a compound bow, but wondering if general consensus is that I'd still be far better off not spooking distant game with crossbow than fair size bored centerfire rifle? Guessing and hoping so.

I hate even taking zeroing-in rifle shots at my place around deer season for fear of putting bucks on notice. Accordingly, that is one of the reasons I've really found the idea of a crossbow appealing. Hogs are weird in that when they're on hoof running around they'll sometimes scent you FAR away, while when focused on feeding I've approached them within 30 yards without them even giving me notice... LOVE to take them out without spooking deer too much. Actually held off on shooting 3 pigs this past weekend as had does between me and the hogs and didn't want to give up my stand location.

 

[Catscratch]

Just throwing this out there, but would you be more suited to buy a suppressor for a rifle to address some of these issues? A crossbow is a one shot type of thing with limited range. I don't know that would be ideal if you wanted to put a dent in your hog population. It seems a suppressed rifle with subsonic loads would be nice is the situations you described.

Itch growing by the day to make a purchase but still haven't pulled the trigger... ooops... make that cocked the crossbow just quite yet.

One more question that will likely be last before making a purchase, and it's largely driven by all of the discussion of noise.

One factor I've been weighing as a reason to get a crossbow has been to minimize spooking game nearby... I'm NOT talking about deer / game in the IMMEDIATE vicinity, but instead since I hunt a somewhat modestly sized chunk of land (112 acres) I'd love to be able to shoot at a pig that might come out during deer season or a solitary doe during a doe day without alarming an old buck that might be spending time on the property elsewhere 500 yards away.

Neighboring property owners don't typically shoot any closer to my place than 1000 yards but the crack of a .270 at that distant is quite easy for me to hear on my stand. Appreciate from the comments that a crossbow is quite louder than a compound bow, but wondering if general consensus is that I'd still be far better off not spooking distant game with crossbow than fair size bored centerfire rifle? Guessing and hoping so.

I hate even taking zeroing-in rifle shots at my place around deer season for fear of putting bucks on notice. Accordingly, that is one of the reasons I've really found the idea of a crossbow appealing. Hogs are weird in that when they're on hoof running around they'll sometimes scent you FAR away, while when focused on feeding I've approached them within 30 yards without them even giving me notice... LOVE to take them out without spooking deer too much. Actually held off on shooting 3 pigs this past weekend as had does between me and the hogs and didn't want to give up my stand location.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Great point, Catscratch. Hate to admit it but I just havent made time or had the burning desire to deal with the red tape forms / tax stamp.

 

[Catscratch]

Great point, Catscratch. Hate to admit it but I just havent made time or had the burning desire to deal with the red tape forms / tax stamp.

Lol, I want one also but haven't made the leap yet for the exact same reason.

 

[Bill]

I'd love to be able to shoot at a pig that might come out during deer season or a solitary doe during a doe day without alarming an old buck that might be spending time on the property elsewhere 500 yards away.

I wouldn't be afraid the crack of an Xbow would alarm a deer 500 yards away. Also some of these Xbows are accurate at 100 yards. I would "NEVER" think of that distance at deer.

But a pig, Pfft, I'd have no problem lobbing one its way.

I like my Ravin. But I'm not sure yet it was the best decision over a TenPoint in the long run. TenPoint has excellent customer service in times of need.