Coronavirus

[jsasker007]

Trump 2020

 

[Bill]

Wow....

I’m at the farm. Philly airport looked vacant to me. But it didn’t hold a candle to St. Louis
if you ever watched that stupid show the leftovers, that’s what it felt like. Everyone vanished.

this is where everyone gets dropped off at ticketing and check in.


Inside C terminal. I’ve been here countless times and it’s always bustling.



I’ve determined it’s much safer at the airport and on a plane then it is at the grocery store or Home Depot......

 

[Bill]

And those news stories of planes packed like sardines are B.S. again the news picked one plane to hype a story. I can’t believe American Airlines even flew the plane it was so empty.

 

[chummer]

And those news stories of planes packed like sardines are B.S. again the news picked one plane to hype a story. I can’t believe American Airlines even flew the plane it was so empty.

I was working for a rent a car company at an airport on 9/11 and for months after. I was commissioned and didn’t make much money for a few months. This is going to be much worse. I actually became good friends with some of the police officers they sent in to patrol it for months after. It was just airport employees and security forces in the airport, no customers. Multiply our small airport by all the airports, crazy numbers. If anyone buys used vehicles your time is coming. 9/11 crashed the used car market as all the rental car companies had to dump their fleets at auctions. I have to imagine this will dwarf 9/11.

 

[roymunson]

Hobby Lobby in our nearby town opened a few days ago. Today they got shut down by the state police. Guess they have to answer to their boss, Gov Prickster, who coincidentally we caught fishing today.

View attachment 29731

At least your little guy's hair looks good

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I have a question that maybe some of you may know. If you die from Corona, does your life insurance still pay out? Or do they use an excuse that it is a wide spread pandemic, and they dont cover it?

Just wondering if that is an influence to why hospitals are listing death with covid on the death certificates. Not that the insurance industry would try to persuade hospitals, or politicians to do something that isnt moral.

 

[Knehrke]

So here's a novel idea. When someone is killed by getting run over by a car, we should evaluate whether they were in good enough shape to get out of the way before we assign "death by auto accident". For example, if they're in a wheelchair, then obviously it's death by disability. If they're old and can't see well enough to make out the oncoming vehicle, it's death by age. If an eight year old runs out into the street after a ball, it's death by youth. And so on. Obviously I'm being facetious, but I would love to hear a reasonable alternative to listing COVID on the death certificate when someone who is sick with a deadly disease passes away. I mean, there's no way that someone who's COVID positive gets hit by a car and the cause of death gets listed as COVID. But in cases that aren't so clear, who exactly is supposed to make these decisions, and what's the criteria? There is something to be said for clarity. Yeah, it's an imperfect system and there are bound to be a few cases that fall through the cracks, but you know - it's not like anyone is trying to hide anything. The dogma from day one has been that COVID kills people with underlying health issues. It's a deadly disease, period. Can we just move on?

 

[4wanderingeyes]

So, if a normal healthy person with a blood alcohol content of .55 dies, the doctor puts death by alcohol poisoning under the cause, but the admin change it to caused by Covid-19, because he was found that he tested positive. What killed him? Drinking 2 gallons of Captain Morgan, or Covid-19? My guess would be the Captain kicked his ass!

Or how about when someone has been in coma for 3 weeks from having a stroke, and the family decides to pull the plug, and his heart stops within a couple hours, yet his death certificate cause reads Covid-19.

I think if you stand back and look at it, you will see they are trying to mark anyone possible with Covid-19.

 

[Knehrke]

Those two examples that you cite are egregious misrepresentations of cause of death, I agree. But they are far from normal. I will hazard a guess that we are arguing cents when we should be looking at dollars.

 

[The Fishman]

I have read most of the comments in this currently 101 page topic. I keep reading over and over and over about how all death certificates read COVID-19. I have refrained from commenting at all on this thread, but here is my first hand account. On April 24, my 102-year-old grandmother started feeling bad at her nursing home. The nursing home doctor saw her the morning of April 25. She could not breath and had low oxygen levels so they put her on oxygen. Even though the nursing home was on lockdown, they allowed my aunt and uncle to enter and be with her. Later on April 25 she developed a fever. She died later that night. Cause of death was listed as respiratory infection. The nursing home doctor never gave her a coronavirus test because the nursing home insisted that they didn’t have any coronavirus cases. Since my grandmother never left the nursing home, the nursing home doctor was in charge and my aunt could not order him to give her a test. It would not have mattered anyway in her care if she went to a hospital and got a test. It would not have changed the outcome. My feelings are that my grandmother died from COVID-19 and that the nursing home was trying to cover their butt. Nursing homes nationwide are currently lobbying for immunity from civil and criminal liability related to COVID-19. So you can continue to debate whether car wrecks and other accidents are being counted as COVID-19 deaths, but also realize that not all COVID-19 deaths are being counted either. There is just as much pressure to list cause of death as other things also. There are currently a lot of excess deaths happening now that are not being assigned to COVID-19. You can read more about it at https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm

 

[Buckly]

Story for your loss, not many make it to 102 in this world.
thres no way to prove your grandmother had the virus other than assuming at this point but I will point out something that i see Up here. Up until about a week ago in my County you had to be showing symptoms to be tested. Flu like symptoms and actually they had to be on the severe side. It’s not as strict now of course
They tested 2000 people in this County with flu like symptoms Over the last 2 months. Out of those 2000 people that showed symptoms of respiratory illness only 40 came back positive for COVID. it seems the vast majority just don’t have it. Symptomatic or not. Just my observation. All these people that believe they’ve had it back in January or February probably didn‘t Antibody testing now is proving it out. Only a small percent of the population has actually been infected.

 

[SD51555]

So here's a novel idea. When someone is killed by getting run over by a car, we should evaluate whether they were in good enough shape to get out of the way before we assign "death by auto accident". For example, if they're in a wheelchair, then obviously it's death by disability. If they're old and can't see well enough to make out the oncoming vehicle, it's death by age. If an eight year old runs out into the street after a ball, it's death by youth. And so on. Obviously I'm being facetious, but I would love to hear a reasonable alternative to listing COVID on the death certificate when someone who is sick with a deadly disease passes away. I mean, there's no way that someone who's COVID positive gets hit by a car and the cause of death gets listed as COVID. But in cases that aren't so clear, who exactly is supposed to make these decisions, and what's the criteria? There is something to be said for clarity. Yeah, it's an imperfect system and there are bound to be a few cases that fall through the cracks, but you know - it's not like anyone is trying to hide anything. The dogma from day one has been that COVID kills people with underlying health issues. It's a deadly disease, period. Can we just move on?

No, we can't. Move on how? With the new normal? No more hugs, sports, school, church, travel, commerce, 80% of people thinking they'll die if they go outside? If the smartest among us can't hold up their narrative, what good is it? Science needs to stay in the ring and argue this out, cause their narrative is BS.

Your rationale would mean nobody dies from cancer. People with terminal cancer end up not eating or drinking at their end. Did that person die of starvation, or because their body was so riddled with cancer pain they could no longer eat or tolerate consciousness? There's no point in researching a cure to cancer if it's starvation that kills people that happen to have cancer with this logic.

Science just got around to telling us yesterday that non-N95 masks will not stop 'rona particles from getting in or out of your bucket. Is that deadly negligence towards the most vulnerable among us that were promised it was safe to go buy paint and mulch at Menards if they wore a mask? You darn right.

https://kstp.com/coronavirus/govern...wearing-face-masks-covid-19-pandemic/5730911/

 

[dogghr]

We pretty much done w lockdown going into wk 4 open w except fo smart social distance. Cruising tonight on Main Street. Weather finally nice enough to clean ride. I’m sure there will several hundred cars there and most will stand their 6 ft.
Time to move on before everyone is broke. It’s an unofficial cruise in but doubt that matter to most. Enjoy ur wkend and play safe. Montani Semper Liberi !!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SD51555]

I don't enjoy banging this drum, but I get animated when the TV tells me we just have to cancel life and get used to it, without discussion.

 

[Knehrke]

No, we can't. Move on how? With the new normal? No more hugs, sports, school, church, travel, commerce, 80% of people thinking they'll die if they go outside? If the smartest among us can't hold up their narrative, what good is it? Science needs to stay in the ring and argue this out, cause their narrative is BS.

Your rationale would mean nobody dies from cancer. People with terminal cancer end up not eating or drinking at their end. Did that person die of starvation, or because their body was so riddled with cancer pain they could no longer eat or tolerate consciousness? There's no point in researching a cure to cancer if it's starvation that kills people that happen to have cancer with this logic.

Science just got around to telling us yesterday that non-N95 masks will not stop 'rona particles from getting in or out of your bucket. Is that deadly negligence towards the most vulnerable among us that were promised it was safe to go buy paint and mulch at Menards if they wore a mask? You darn right.

https://kstp.com/coronavirus/govern...wearing-face-masks-covid-19-pandemic/5730911/

I don't know where you get your information, but I will respectfully correct your illusion that there wasn't a HUGE discussion nationwide on the merits of wearing masks, with guidance as to whether it was impactful or not. Science certain DID NOT "just get around to telling us yesterday". In point of fact, we - as scientists and medical professionals - have been touting the facts since day one. Non-N95 masks protect OTHER people from you. They aren't for your benefit. This has been made clear time and time again. Moreover, N95 masks are only 95% effective. Hence, even they are not fully protective. So, deadly negligence just doesn't even come close. In fact, it is such as distortion of the truth that I can't fathom how you would write that. Sorry, but honestly? You just triaged yourself. How is one supposed to engage in a valid argument, when facts become fluid?

I've said this many times on multiple forums, but let me be clear here: masks are for other people's protection!!! That's why doctors wear them in surgery. Wear them when you can't social distance, if you care about whether you might make other folks sick. If you want to protect yourself, stay home. Otherwise, practice distancing and wash your hands frequently. This is stuff I can cite in my sleep, since it's what we've said since day one.

Here's a link to one of many, many articles on the subject, dated in this case April 9th: https://www.sciencealert.com/this-i...r-you-should-wear-a-mask-is-just-so-confusing

Deadly negligence or willful ignorance? Hmmm....

 

[FredG]

... How is one supposed to engage in a valid argument, when facts become fluid?...

The dead end of human inquiry (science) is when we declare that our facts are immutable.

 

[Buckly]

I don't know where you get your information, but I will respectfully correct your illusion that there wasn't a HUGE discussion nationwide on the merits of wearing masks, with guidance as to whether it was impactful or not. Science certain DID NOT "just get around to telling us yesterday". In point of fact, we - as scientists and medical professionals - have been touting the facts since day one. Non-N95 masks protect OTHER people from you. They aren't for your benefit. This has been made clear time and time again. Moreover, N95 masks are only 95% effective. Hence, even they are not fully protective. So, deadly negligence just doesn't even come close. In fact, it is such as distortion of the truth that I can't fathom how you would write that. Sorry, but honestly? You just triaged yourself. How is one supposed to engage in a valid argument, when facts become fluid?

I've said this many times on multiple forums, but let me be clear here: masks are for other people's protection!!! That's why doctors wear them in surgery. Wear them when you can't social distance, if you care about whether you might make other folks sick. If you want to protect yourself, stay home. Otherwise, practice distancing and wash your hands frequently. This is stuff I can cite in my sleep, since it's what we've said since day one.

Here's a link to one of many, many articles on the subject, dated in this case April 9th: https://www.sciencealert.com/this-i...r-you-should-wear-a-mask-is-just-so-confusing

Deadly negligence or willful ignorance? Hmmm....

Fauci himself said in March that masks do nothing. Birx said in March. Masks do nothing. Except for healthcare workers. Then there was some fear mongering going on about all these people running around that didn’t know they had the virus and were spreading it. So all the infectious disease experts. And those i mentioned changed they’re tune. Now you say, they’ve always said masks were needed for everybody. Really who is listening anymore. The “experts”. Have changed their tune and advice constantly through this. So here’s some interesting news from UPMC. A 55,000 bed system in PA and NY. Guess what, they now believe that asymptomatic spreaders are much less than believed. Of the thousands tested only 3 had it. That were asymptomatic. They now think this whole business about asymptomatic spread is overstated. how many infectious disease experts are out there now. Lol. They all seem to have different advice. And All advice changes daily.

 

[Knehrke]

Just because experts disagree doesn't mean that everything is false! My wife and I were having this conversation yesterday: to what extent does the clarity of the message supersede the details? You literally can't win. if you say something and you're wrong in any of the details, the entire message is disregarded. If you don't say anything, then you don't know anything. It is infuriating. Nobody changed their tune. Masks don't do anything - to protect from the virus if it's spread by aerosols. But REGARDLESS of whether it is spread by aerosol or droplets, masks can reduce the likelihood of your spreading it when you sneeze or cough. The devil is in the details. People want black or white, and they don't pay attention. I don't know if it's our society or if it's the scientists who aren't conveying the message well. Or if it's this "lamestream media" that's suddenly become the catchphrase of pundits that is focusing on the controversy rather than the consensus.

And as for the "dead end of human inquiry", I think you've gone off the deep end. Yes, we should challenge our assumptions. But if everything is fluid and we can rewrite history to suit our narrative, then what's the point? Simply say something enough times in a loud enough voice and you will make it true? Facts are facts. It is our understanding of them that it imperfect. I can tell you that the sun didn't rise yesterday, but that doesn't change the fact that it did. You can tell me that the experts have changed their tune regarding whether masks stop the virus, but in fact they haven't: they're come to a consensus for the public good, with caveats and limitations - as befits any conclusion.

Listen, I can stand on my soapbox all day, but I've got turkey to hunt. I despair that we can't even agree on what happened when it played out so visibly. But I guess if ten witnesses to a car accident can all tell different versions, then it's not too unexpected.

 

[dogghr]

“ simply say enough times and in a loud enough voice it then becomes true”


Yep pretty much describes much of what the media and a few select self appointed governor / infectious experts have done. Well lets not for get the barrage of celebrities that , as SD alluded to ,that are incessantly telling us we are all in this together. This , concerning a virus that has barely made it to 3 % exposure rate in most places and with the reopening of 2/3 the country is dropping to near 1%. Deaths are high % of compromised patients.
Was it a virus to be respected? Of course. Did it require a National shitdown? Hell no! Mask or not, one of the most poorly managed and propagated disease most of us have ever witnessed.
BTW. The cruise in was a blast with probably 400 vehicles thru the night. Social distance yes. Masks? Uh , no.
Golf today. Hope my balls are sterile.


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[4wanderingeyes]

I practiced social distancing today, and had a great meal, and a couple beers, served by someone else.