Cave in Rock ?'s

[mtholton]

Trying to create a visual barrier for a couple of plots. First time planting switchgrass. I'll be planting into a field that was soybean last year. I intend to plant about 1/2 acre total of switchgrass screens for two food plots.

Few questions..

1. I'm in Zone 4A. The local feed store said I wouldn't have much luck because the land is too far north... Is that true? If so, is there another variety you would recommend?
2. Is it too late to frost seed it? How many freeze/thaw cycles are needed, appears there are a fair number of days below freezing in forecast still at night. 10 day forecast shows every night below freezing...
3. If I don't do Simazine, will diligent use of glyphosate work good enough for initial weed control? If the answer is I should do it, is it too late to put that down?

Thanks as always!

Matt

 

[Mortenson]

I think you could try it. Get the seed down asap and used the nightly freezes to your advantage. You can use the glyphosate several times over the next few weeks.

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Trying to create a visual barrier for a couple of plots. First time planting switchgrass. I'll be planting into a field that was soybean last year. I intend to plant about 1/2 acre total of switchgrass screens for two food plots.

Few questions..

1. I'm in Zone 4A. The local feed store said I wouldn't have much luck because the land is too far north... Is that true? If so, is there another variety you would recommend?
2. Is it too late to frost seed it? How many freeze/thaw cycles are needed, appears there are a fair number of days below freezing in forecast still at night. 10 day forecast shows every night below freezing...
3. If I don't do Simazine, will diligent use of glyphosate work good enough for initial weed control? If the answer is I should do it, is it too late to put that down?

Thanks as always!

Matt

Matt,
I know someone who works at UMN in St. Paul that grows Cave In Rock west of the cities to sell seed to a few retailers. He has no issues growing it this far north. With that said, weeds are going to be more of an issue for you than say, someone down in Missouri. If you could get the seed down in the next week or so, you would probably get enough of the upcoming freezes that MN will surely get in the next two weeks. If you can't get out and spread seed now, and also have access to a drill, I would wait a few weeks to ensure you get good weed control with the coming weeks of summer annuals germinating. This is exactly what I did (albeit further south than you), and I had great success drilling the seed in because I missed the frost seeding window. I actually haven't used simazine before, but will be using it this year. From my understanding, you will get some post germination control that you wouldn't be able to with the glyphosate. This is huge with switchgrass, where weeds are often the main reason for stand failures. Considering how much the seed costs, it is absolutely worth it to use the simazine. Just my two cents. Good luck!

 

[Honker]

I can grow CIR in zone 4B, so it's worth shot. Another variety you might want to look into is 'Liberty' it is rated to zone 4, I'm trying some this year in a wetter area. I don't think it is too late to frost seed, especially up there. If you don't use a pre-emergent herbicide it will depend on what kind of weeds you are dealing with. Broadleafs can be treated with 2,4D or it can be kept mowed so the switch always gets sun. Gly will only work on green actively growing plants and you will need to check the label for temperature recommendations, but you might be able to get a spraying in as late as early May up there depending on when the switch starts to grow.

 

[mtholton]

Matt,
I know someone who works at UMN in St. Paul that grows Cave In Rock west of the cities to sell seed to a few retailers. He has no issues growing it this far north. With that said, weeds are going to be more of an issue for you than say, someone down in Missouri. If you could get the seed down in the next week or so, you would probably get enough of the upcoming freezes that MN will surely get in the next two weeks. If you can't get out and spread seed now, and also have access to a drill, I would wait a few weeks to ensure you get good weed control with the coming weeks of summer annuals germinating. This is exactly what I did (albeit further south than you), and I had great success drilling the seed in because I missed the frost seeding window. I actually haven't used simazine before, but will be using it this year. From my understanding, you will get some post germination control that you wouldn't be able to with the glyphosate. This is huge with switchgrass, where weeds are often the main reason for stand failures. Considering how much the seed costs, it is absolutely worth it to use the simazine. Just my two cents. Good luck!

Great thanks fo rthe input. Given my location, is it too late to put down simazine this weekend?

 

[Hoytvectrix]

Great thanks fo rthe input. Given my location, is it too late to put down simazine this weekend?

I would consult the label. I think @Bill has used simazine in the past. My he or someone else can provide better input to your question.

 

[Mortenson]

Lotta atrazine yet to go down.

 

[Rit]

Simazine works so so. Better than nothing but does almost nothing to stop weeds from germinating in my soils at the recommended rate. Everything I have read on the zine family is that it is less effective on heavy soils which I have. I frost seeded a screen in my destination plot this year and it was into clover. In the next week I am going to hit it with 2-4D. Switch won’t germinate for another 2 months so I have no concerns of the residual. I want to kill the clover and I will hit anything green over the next six weeks with glyph. But I am skipping the Simazine all together.

 

[Bill]

I’ve never used Simazine but have heard it does work. Maybe not on soils like it has. Paul Knox always recommended doubling the rate of Atrazine when using in switch. I don’t know the legality of that so do your homework. The recommended rates are often what they are because they give thought to the following years crop rotation. With switch there is no rotation on the horizon so that is not a concern.

earlier is better but I don’t believe there is ever a “too late” to apply.

 

[mtholton]

Simazine works so so. Better than nothing but does almost nothing to stop weeds from germinating in my soils at the recommended rate. Everything I have read on the zine family is that it is less effective on heavy soils which I have. I frost seeded a screen in my destination plot this year and it was into clover. In the next week I am going to hit it with 2-4D. Switch won’t germinate for another 2 months so I have no concerns of the residual. I want to kill the clover and I will hit anything green over the next six weeks with glyph. But I am skipping the Simazine all together.

I think that will be my plan as well. Thank you

 

[mtholton]

I’ve never used Simazine but have heard it does work. Maybe not on soils like it has. Paul Knox always recommended doubling the rate of Atrazine when using in switch. I don’t know the legality of that so do your homework. The recommended rates are often what they are because they give thought to the following years crop rotation. With switch there is no rotation on the horizon so that is not a concern.

earlier is better but I don’t believe there is ever a “too late” to apply.

I don't have access to Atrazine, and the size of my project is so small it's prob not worth the effort of finding someone that does. I'll stick to gly and 24d and hope for the best!

 

[Rit]

I think that will be my plan as well. Thank you

Just know that I have never tried 24d before switch germination. It will be an experiment for me but I do think there is enough time for the residual to leave the soil before germination. The optimum time to prepare would have been the fall before and I didn’t do that this time because my plans are always changing. If I know I want switch somewhere I like to get a good kill before seeding. I don’t know if it is going to work or not. I’ll update when I find out if it did or didn’t work.

 

[Bill]

Just know that I have never tried 24d before switch germination. It will be an experiment for me but I do think there is enough time for the residual to leave the soil before germination. The optimum time to prepare would have been the fall before and I didn’t do that this time because my plans are always changing. If I know I want switch somewhere I like to get a good kill before seeding. I don’t know if it is going to work or not. I’ll update when I find out if it did or didn’t work.

I have sprayed 2,4-D right over actively growing switch grass. No harm to the switch, cleaned the field up nicely. But don’t do it if you have Forbes that you want in there.

 

[Rit]

I have sprayed 2,4-D right over actively growing switch grass. No harm to the switch, cleaned the field up nicely. But don’t do it if you have Forbes that you want in there.

I may have read 3rd or 4th leaf but not before. I think I read it will kill or injure switch seedlings. I will be spraying it on an area that hasn’t germinated yet. My hope is it moves out of the soil before germination. Anyone know with an absolute how long it stays in the soil? I’ve read from 2 weeks on.

 

[Bill]

I may have read 3rd or 4th leaf but not before. I think I read it will kill or injure switch seedlings. I will be spraying it on an area that hasn’t germinated yet. My hope is it moves out of the soil before germination. Anyone know with an absolute how long it stays in the soil? I’ve read from 2 weeks on.

that does ring a bell now that you mention it. When I sprayed the switch was a foot tall. Not exactly sure but I have also heard 2,4-D will stay in the soil a while. Why not just use Gly if the switch hasn’t germinated. It doesn’t stay active in the soil.

 

[Rit]

that does ring a bell now that you mention it. When I sprayed the switch was a foot tall. Not exactly sure but I have also heard 2,4-D will stay in the soil a while. Why not just use Gly if the switch hasn’t germinated. It doesn’t stay active in the soil.

I need to kill the clover I broadcast it into.

 

[Rit]

I need to kill the clover I broadcast it into.

To add to that my plan is to let the clover smother some of the weeds that might grow and kill it mid May. I think it will rather thick and not sure glyph with do more than set it back. Maybe at a higher rate.

 

[Bill]

To add to that my plan is to let the clover smother some of the weeds that might grow and kill it mid May. I think it will rather thick and not sure glyph with do more than set it back. Maybe at a higher rate.

that makes sense. If it wasn’t for a screen I’d say use the gly to set the clover back then let it come back. I love clover in some of my switch. But it’s not for screens

 

[titan23_87]

I need to kill the clover I broadcast it into.

The Gly will take care of the clover won't it? W/o needing 2-4D. I'm actually in your same boat.

 

[Bill]

The Gly will take care of the clover won't it? W/o needing 2-4D. I'm actually in your same boat.

clover is a tough plant. Gly will knock back what’s green and growing but if it has a good root system it can come back.