Can QDM make hunting harder?

You should. I know the guy that runs the program there and he is top notch. I will say that deer in that area are not on an upswing these days but I have seen some pictures of outstanding deer from that base....but it is certainly not Radford :emoji_slight_smile:
Not following the Radford comment? Monster taking down in Dinwiddie last year (close to 200" if not there). That was close to my old farm.
 
(Swampcat quote) And conversely to the thought process if you have to feed your deer, you have too many deer. Maybe you feed your deer because you dont have enough deer and you are attempting to improve fawn recruitment by supplying a readily available source of high quality food at a time when both fawns and does need it.

I understand this WANT. However, "We need to find a way to get more deer here because there isn't enough browse pressure on the native habitat, crop damage, insurance claims, and likelyhood for disease to spread" said nobody, ever.

( Baker quotes) Continuing with the benefits, supplementation can take the peaks and valleys out of the nutritional plane common in most habitats. Rare is the location that can meet all the nutritional needs of deer 365 days a year year in and year out. A high quality pellet also supplements vitamins and minerals that may be lacking in even the best forages. Take a quick look at how the nutritional content of human food has declined over the past few decades and it is an easy segue to believe that could be true for wildlife as well. I see significant improvement in fawn survival and recruitment success.

IMO, It is rare for a location NOT to be able to meet the nutritional needs of deer 365 days. Years it can't are the rare exception not the rule. (I'm talking natural sustainability not nutritional needs to reach full antler growth potential)

Your comment on nutritional content of our food only highlights what I'm trying to get at even more. The nutritional value of or food today is directly correlated to the fact that farmers aren't able to produce (quality) food at a fast enough rate to sustain the current population.


1) To my knowledge there has never been a correlation found between supplementally feeding protein and disease. There is real danger in over feeding corn giving deer unlimited access particularly at the beginning of the season. This toxicity has killed a lot of deer. However I have never heard of protein supplementation or the methodology harming a deer. Appreciate that there are thousands [ maybe tens of thousands? ] of people feeding supplemental protein . While it may not be that common in the north? it is very common in the south. Simply look at all the manufacturers of protein starting with Purina and the scale can be better understood . Taking it a step forward there is a wealth of data showing significant improvements in all metrics of health for deer fed supplemental protein. This outcome holds true irrespective of habitat.

I don't believe anyone has ever said that it is the "feed" causing the problems. It is the delivery system that increases the POTENTIAL to a very high rate of infection.

You would think of this much differently if CWD was in the area you own property and pursue whitetail deer. Unfortunately, it is more than likely a when and not an If.
 
S T , I'm not as good as you on a computer so I don't know how to highlight quotes etc. So my responses are a bit more cumbersome.

Regarding the ability of a habitat to meet the needs to sustain deer vs. allowing them to realize their full potential and peak health is an important distinction. Indeed the requirements to sustain are much less and as such I agree with you that many habitats are capable of that. I will only speak for myself and say that subsistence is not my goal. I want deer in peak health and body condition and I manage to such ends. To achieve that none of the properties I have ever been involved in are capable of that. Working with research scientists we have done tissue samples of key plants at different times of the year both in La. and Mexico and have measured the oscillations. The outcome is that natural vegetation at least in my areas is not capable of achieving peak nutrition 365 . Even with food plots there are still going to be stress periods of lack. So it depends on the goal of the steward..sustainability or peak health.

IMO the issue with declining nutritional content in food is related to the declining quality of much of the ag soils . We currently produce more food than the world can consume. The delivery systems and uses [ read crops grown for animal consumption rather than humans ] are what create the short fall. And as has been appropriately posted throughout this thread there is a direct and well documented correlation between soil quality and whitetail health.

Please note in my post I stated the following...
"However I have never heard of protein supplementation or the methodology harming a deer. "

To elaborate , neither the feed nor the delivery system has ever been correlated to disease or harm in any way. Even with an extraordinarily high sample of thousands of users over decades. I personally have been feeding for over 30 years in two countries with no problems. Potential is a meaningless term. The truth is this subject is highly studied and there is NO rate of infection documented. But there is the potential for all the deer to die tomorrow .

In all my posts I try to stay with known science or my own personal experience. I have no experience with CWD and only know what I have read. Perhaps your right. Maybe I would think differently if that were an issue I was dealing with.
 
(Swampcat quote) And conversely to the thought process if you have to feed your deer, you have too many deer. Maybe you feed your deer because you dont have enough deer and you are attempting to improve fawn recruitment by supplying a readily available source of high quality food at a time when both fawns and does need it.

I understand this WANT. However, "We need to find a way to get more deer here because there isn't enough browse pressure on the native habitat, crop damage, insurance claims, and likelyhood for disease to spread" said nobody, ever.


You would think of this much differently if CWD was in the area you own property and pursue whitetail deer. Unfortunately, it is more than likely a when and not an If.

I don't know anything about your area - and is quite likely, you don't know anything about mine. We don't have browse pressure on native vegetation, and we don't have but 600 acres of row crop in the county, and maybe one insurance claim is too many if you are the one making the claim - and we don't have CWD here, yet. I read in Illinois, sharpshooters were trying to shoot the herd down to 20 deer psm. Our deer herd would have to increase to reach 20 deer per square mile. I hate it for anyone who has CWD in there area - and I fear the day it reaches my place. But when that happens, it wont be because the hunters were so irresponsible to let deer populations reach 30 or 40 deer per square mile.

You are correct, we dont say we need more insurance claims or disease. But, in my area, there are plenty of folks wishing there was at least some deer pressure on native vegetation, and we don't care about ag damage, because there is none. There are plenty of folks who have hunted this current week of muzzle loader season and did not see ONE deer - who would like to see more. Would you feel good about your property if you had paid $750,000 - for strictly a recreational property - no timber, cattle, crops, etc - just hunting - and were seeing a deer or two every two or three days spent hunting? I am not talking bucks here - I am talking deer. Our state's harvest goal for my county is one doe per 350 acres and one buck per 350 acres. That is not a lot of opportunity for someone spending a lot of money on a hunting property. This is not ag ground where three fourths of it is turned under by plow and there are a few strips of timber left during the winter. 640 acres is 640 acres of deer habitat.
 
It wasnt to hard to to decipher whatsoever.

This dialog is indeed interesting. I have never and if my past and current trend continues I will never be hunting outside the state of Minnesota. You are 100% correct that I do not know about other areas other than my own and I am thankful to be able to learn about them. I, like all of you love all things whitetails or game for that matter. We have also painted the choices of management techniques that are much different only a few hundred miles away.

Funny me making an insurance claim being mentioned. I was referring to crop insurance but I did just hit a deer last week. I drive a 2001 Tahoe with 380K miles on it. There will be no insurance claim. HAHA Luckily only a burnt out headlight bulb and a dent in the door that I may or may not try to pull/pop out. It doesnt seem to affect anything other than the looks of the ol' girl.
 
Supplemental feeding of quail in the south has long proven to be successful in improving quail health, increasing body weights, increasing clutch size, and decreasing predation. BUT, supplemental feed is supplied to quail by spreading feed and not a single point supply, which one would think would reduce the chance for disease transmission.

The frequency and duration with which deer utilize summer plantings of beans and clover makes one question just how much of their diet is derived from native vegegation when they are spending hours everyday in a bean or clover field. Are they eating it in so much quantity because it is just so easy, because it just tastes so good, because they need the protien, none of these reasons - but probably all of these reasons. I can put out corn in these bean and clover food plots - and often times, the deer wont hardly touch it. I am considering supplemental feeding high protien pellets - only during the spring and summer - as a hedge against failed crops of clover and beans - at a time when science tells us deer have an increased demand for protien. My concern in mostly for the health of does and fawns at this time. I am trying to improve my fawn recruitment numbers - and it is fair to believe healthier does and fawns will be more likely to prosper. Any added benefits to antler growth is also a plus. I do see feeding supplemental feed from a feeder potentially increase disease prevalence - but would probably not be too concerned about that unless cwd makes it to our area.

I wish i had quail to feed.....

bill
 
Not following the Radford comment? Monster taking down in Dinwiddie last year (close to 200" if not there). That was close to my old farm.

Radford produces some of the best deer in the state. I read about it years ago but have no personal experience with it. They had some kind of lottery system and it could take years to get a permit to shoot a buck. I think you have to harvest a doe first. Here is the link for the Quota hunt: https://www.dgif.virginia.gov/hunting/quota-hunts/raap-faq/ I don't know if the reputation still holds, but at one point it was producing some of the biggest bucks in the state.
 
I was really hoping you guys would do more with this... :D
Like, I'd rather be called ignorant than late for dinner? Or, I might be ignorant, but I'm not stupid? Stupid is

I tried, I really did....
 
I'm probably the biggest promoter of dealing with soil on this thread. My point of view in the simplest form: Deer spend around 10% of their time (at most) eating plots, that means they spend 90% of their time eating other stuff. Plants are the only nutritional/mineral delivery system deer have. If it's not in the soil for plants to uptake, then it's not in the plants for deer to uptake. Soooo, I focus on the base of the nutritional pyramid and focus on the largest percentage of what's eaten.

That hits the nail on the head! If you are growing deer in a fenced pen, and can control their diet, then you'll see freakish results.

Deer are browsers by nature and by requirement. Very few areas can support food plots/ag fields year round. I have spent 1000's of hours in the stand watching deer spend 2 hours slowly browsing their way to a food plot, spend 10-15 minutes the food plot, then move on browsing their way on to the next food source.
 
Like, I'd rather be called ignorant than late for dinner? Or, I might be ignorant, but I'm not stupid? Stupid is

I tried, I really did....

LOL!!! Knowledge is hard. If you read closely into this thread, there are a number of very good hunting strategy comments by seasoned hunters on here ... :emoji_wink:
 
Hello all, I'm new here. I have been trolling the forum for quite awhile.
We have instituted an 8 point minimum for older people. Actually my nephews made the decision on there own while they were in high school, although we have a policy that younger/ novice hunters can take anything. Once they get a deer and are hooked, then we start educating them and let them make the decision on there own.
Also hello Freeborn! I have property close to yours. I have been reading your posts on the "Outreach Outdoors, Doubletree's corner" forums for a few years. My foodplot system follows his teachings. Too bad he past away before I discovered the forum. I have learned a lot from him.
 
food plots always do better in the first few years until the deer learn and get more nocturnal during hunting season in my experience. For me finding the transition areas work a lot better than hunting the plots. Since starting the doubletree/Paul Knox system I have easily 3 times the deer on my property and they stay all year long!
My neighbor was commenting on how He was not seeing any deer around this year, and I routinely see 4-8 deer while bow hunting.
 
Most of the family is at my place now, nephews are so excited. That's what it's all about. I am so thankful that I was able to buy the property after my uncle passed away.
I went out bow hunting one last time before gun opener tomorrow. Was drawn back on a doe waiting for her to come out from behind a tree and another doe came from behind and scared the heck out of me as she hissed.
 
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