$15.00 Trail Cam Rental?

[younggun1849]

I'm hanging all of my cameras 8-10 feet off the ground. I experimented with it last year and had really good results. When we put a camera 3 feet off the ground it is right in their face and sure to draw attention, bring it up and they won't even know its there.

 

[bat man]

I'm hanging all of my cameras 8-10 feet off the ground. I experimented with it last year and had really good results. When we put a camera 3 feet off the ground it is right in their face and sure to draw attention, bring it up and they won't even know its there.

Elevation definitely helps and lessens attention.

Buddy of mine bought $39 cams that shoot video at Menards last year and put them 6 feet up. He got video of the oldest buck that called MY 240 home last year and he was elated. Then it tucked it tail, turned around and ran back the way it came. He never got another picture of that deer.

Its just one deers reaction, but its one deer he would have loved a crack at.

 

[wklman]

I've wondered before if a buck is exposed to trailcam noise/flash from the time he's a fawn on if he may "learn" that the noise is harmless.

I think there might be something to this stu. My big doe had twin buck fawns last year and she was unafraid of the camera so the fawns didn't mind it at all either. This year the 2 yearlings are at the camera/mineral lick and they don't even phase with the camera. It'd be interesting to see if they can make it 2 more years and how they react to the camera as they age.

 

[bat man]

SOME bucks will tolerate anything they grow up with.

I hunted a place in MN the owner hunted almost every night of archery season from a platform with 4 telephone polls and 3 foot walls. Mature bucks that grew up there would walk downwind from him consistently. But not all of the mature bucks would do it.

 

[j-bird]

It seems like Moultrie is making cams "specifically" for certain big box retailers now. I suppose the retailers are demanding certain margins and the way to do that is for the manufacturer to cut costs....which usually translates to a reduction in quality. That GM prefix in the GM-80XT stands for Gander Mountain. From what i have seen, those retailer specific cameras have issues...is that so they can get people to purchase the warranty services and make certain margins? I dont know, but i do know that i have two "pure" moultries and they have been work horses....my buddy has bought several GM series moultries and they have been glitchy.

Phil - I saw this when I was in the faucet business. It's the same business model that wal-mart is built on. Get the lowest cost product from where ever in the world you can get it. Sell it to maximize your profit and put the rest of the responsibility on the manufacturer. I saw this first hand in the faucet business. The big box stores approach the company and want an "exclusive" product only for their stores and promise "X" amount of shelf space. The retailer determines the selling price point and what "style" they want to see AND what they will pay for the product (to ensure they make money) - and then they dump the rest of the responsibility on the manufacturer.

So instead of a quality product being built and priced as such - it is just the opposite. They figure a consumer is more willing to spend money at a particular price point, figure in their profit, and then cut every corner possible to make a product just good enough to get by. This is why so many jobs have been shifted out of this country and why a warranty is almost a thing of the past anymore. It was so bad - it was almost a wash for me to buy a faucet with my employee discount (50% of MSRP) thru the company I worked for vs just buying it a Lowes or Home Depot.

The other thing that happens is product life cycle has also been grossly reduced. Many products are now only in production for a few years. This makes investing in the manufacturing processes very difficult then you have all this equipment and tooling that essentially only makes you money for a few years and then essentially gets thrown away or you end up married to the equipment and thus have to put work on it you would rather walk away from - simply because you still have payments to make on it. This is why so much labor, and equipment building and tooling and the like is now done outside of this country - it's simply cheaper (in most cases it is cheaper - not lower cost, lower quality as well).

Sorry for the rant - but I have seen this first hand and a game cam is no different. Also saw the whole warranty issue with my Lacrosse boots as well - as they wouldn't apply the full warranty to the replacement pair they sent when those I originally purchased failed.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

i have noticed that it is seems to be a different reaction to different deer. I have placed cams high, low, far, near, you name it....and i will say that cams hung higher definitely seem to get more pics of mature deer as a generalization. I have plenty of pics of bucks staring nervously at a camera and then never pictured close to the cam again...like at a mineral site or only in the distance of a plot edge set up. I do however think that it isnt enough to make all mature bucks completely evacuate the area, but it can at times redirect their movements around the cam site. Batman's idea of using a cam like device as a deterrence or redirect most likely has some merrit to it..especially if a buck is know to be camera shy. I will also make this observation...i think hanging cams higher also deters over checking the cameras because who wants to lug a ladder or climbing sticks, or whatever else into the location to check a cam frequently....so i also think that hanging them high keeps the human disturbance factor at minimum around cam sites which will also make it more active in terms of mature deer.

When i lived and hunted in the burbs it was early on in the mass production and usage of trail cams...my first cam was a leaf river 35mm white flash beast. I had a slammer of an old buck in the neighborhood, he was very easily identifiable at all times of the year because he had an injury to his front left leg at the knee joint...it cause this big baseball sized knot in his knee. he walked and ran fine, but that hoof was turned inward and he left a very discernible track because of it. I got one pic of him the first year i knew about him and i would routinely get excited as i walked down the access path to leading to the cam because i would see his track heading right towards the camera...only to veer off to a secondary trail about 35 yds from the cam. He basically skirted the cam location every time after that first encounter. the only other times i got pics of him were on new setups that caught him by surprise. he never completely left the general area but he certainly learned to avoid cam locations. A good friend of mine killed him 3 yrs later after finally locating his primary bedding location....the deer was no less than 8 yrs old based the previous history that both my friend and i had with him over the course of 5 yrs. However that is just one buck...hardly a case builder. I have also had a number of mature bucks that have been camera hogs....with all sorts of different camera types....i'd say its highly variable but if hunting mature bucks is the top priority it probably pays not to risk it and just assume all mature bucks are hyper aware of cameras and take the necessary precautions to lessen the effects of trail cams.

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Phil - I saw this when I was in the faucet business. It's the same business model that wal-mart is built on. Get the lowest cost product from where ever in the world you can get it. Sell it to maximize your profit and put the rest of the responsibility on the manufacturer. I saw this first hand in the faucet business. The big box stores approach the company and want an "exclusive" product only for their stores and promise "X" amount of shelf space. The retailer determines the selling price point and what "style" they want to see AND what they will pay for the product (to ensure they make money) - and then they dump the rest of the responsibility on the manufacturer.

So instead of a quality product being built and priced as such - it is just the opposite. They figure a consumer is more willing to spend money at a particular price point, figure in their profit, and then cut every corner possible to make a product just good enough to get by. This is why so many jobs have been shifted out of this country and why a warranty is almost a thing of the past anymore. It was so bad - it was almost a wash for me to buy a faucet with my employee discount (50% of MSRP) thru the company I worked for vs just buying it a Lowes or Home Depot.

The other thing that happens is product life cycle has also been grossly reduced. Many products are now only in production for a few years. This makes investing in the manufacturing processes very difficult then you have all this equipment and tooling that essentially only makes you money for a few years and then essentially gets thrown away or you end up married to the equipment and thus have to put work on it you would rather walk away from - simply because you still have payments to make on it. This is why so much labor, and equipment building and tooling and the like is now done outside of this country - it's simply cheaper (in most cases it is cheaper - not lower cost, lower quality as well).

Sorry for the rant - but I have seen this first hand and a game cam is no different. Also saw the whole warranty issue with my Lacrosse boots as well - as they wouldn't apply the full warranty to the replacement pair they sent when those I originally purchased failed.

yep that is essentially what i was getting at. i work with clients that manufacture all types of different products and sell them into the large retailers and they all deal with this very process. The retailer drives the COG based on the margins they want. I'm actually in the middle of dealing with a client that is in the middle of working out a large "deal" with a very large sporting goods retailer ad they are torn on how to make the product for the price that the retailer wants the "exclusive" on.

 

[sandbur]

Same here. I've known for years that trailcams can hurt...but I can't break away from using them. I have downsized to only running one this year, and established a new salt/mineral site where I don't run a cam. I have a strong suspicion that bucks will use the site without cams far more frequently. Can't tell you how many bucks over 2.5 that I've gotten one picture of...only to never be caught on that cam again. I've also seen all deer shy away from food plot edges when a cam gets placed...at first I'd get pics close to the cam, but within a week or so all the deer (does, fawns, bucks) would avoid the cam site. Pics would usually become not much more than "eyes" at distance. One year I added a flash extender to a cam on a plot...same deal. Within a week or so I was back to just getting eye shine.

It would be interesting (to me anyway) to set up a high end Reconyx and one of my el cheapo cams in similar situations and document the results.

My best trail cam spot was on the north slope where I used to have a salt lick and I have a waterhole. I decided to not use a cam for one year to see if action improved during deer season and never used a camera since. Even our does were very nocturnal until this year, so why take a chance. I think skiddish does reduce your chances for a buck that might be following them.

 

[Brush Creek]

Since trail cams take a dump after two or three years, we have quite a few dead ones around. They are all out in the woods as training cameras on the theory that the deer see them all the time and get used to them. Just a theory.

 

[j-bird]

yep that is essentially what i was getting at. i work with clients that manufacture all types of different products and sell them into the large retailers and they all deal with this very process. The retailer drives the COG based on the margins they want. I'm actually in the middle of dealing with a client that is in the middle of working out a large "deal" with a very large sporting goods retailer ad they are torn on how to make the product for the price that the retailer wants the "exclusive" on.

Your client isn't alone. They do this to everybody regardless of size. The faucet company I worked for produced more faucets in the world than anyone else - didn't matter to the retailers. What got me was how the retailer would not negotiate at the corporation level (which held many companies in the home improvement/new construction arena). The retailers knew it gave the corporation too much power - instead they would ONLY negotiate with the individual companies. We where even told that if we sold more than "X" amount of product directly to the retail market the retailer would drop all of our product and consider us direct competition.

I hope things work out for your client - I like seeing the little guy make it and not sell their soul in the process.

 

[MNAaron]

Take it for what it is worth but one way I have tackled not scaring deer using cams is I set them only in locations where I will not bump deer (just like everyone else) however I also many times set them off a little ways and put it on field scan so the deer are not actually walking by the cameras but I can still likely capture them as long as my time delay is short enough. I am sure I miss some however I rarely scare deer either. Down side is you burn through the batteries and only daylight recon.

I agree each deer has their own unique tolerance for cameras. We had a nice buck (mid 160s) that could care less what kind of camera we used and a nice mature buck we harvested last year that hated any camera that made any kind of flash or sound. Hence why we developed this alternative method.

 

[homegrownbucks]

I have thought about those solar yard lights to get deer used to red blobs, but with the decent black flash cams now it doesn't seem to matter too much around our farm. They aren't motion activated but might get the deer acclimated.

Cameras can hurt. I have seen trails abandoned and rerouted from noisy cams with a white or red ir flash. I have seen dominant deer always select the pile of corn with no camera on it. I have watched certain deer show on camera once with that surprised look on their face and never be photographed again.

SOME deer will not tolerate cameras, and don't know the doe's age but the older bucks seem less tolerant. SOME mature bucks don't care about cam noise, light, smell anything.

HUGE difference between $100 cameras and the high end Reconyx. Not in picture quality as many low $ cameras take better pictures, but in deer reaction.

Which leads me to a product idea I wanted to try. I have considered using a single white or red led attached to a 9 V battery w/a motion detector on trails I want for stand access to prevent some of these deer from using them. If it would emit a small click it would work even better. Anybody know an easy way to do it?

 

[phil@thesidehill]

Your client isn't alone. They do this to everybody regardless of size. The faucet company I worked for produced more faucets in the world than anyone else - didn't matter to the retailers. What got me was how the retailer would not negotiate at the corporation level (which held many companies in the home improvement/new construction arena). The retailers knew it gave the corporation too much power - instead they would ONLY negotiate with the individual companies. We where even told that if we sold more than "X" amount of product directly to the retail market the retailer would drop all of our product and consider us direct competition.

I hope things work out for your client - I like seeing the little guy make it and not sell their soul in the process.

this particular client isnt really a little guy....they are a very big manufacturer in several market segments...this is there first go with this particular retailer in a market segment that they are "newer". they are used to how this works in different segments with different products...this particular one is going to be difficult to manufacture at the pricing that is being demanded....without a major reduction in quality materials.

Yep...the big retailers get majorly pissed when the manufacturers develop their own direct to consumer ecommerce websites....which is a big part of the business i am in....they interpret it as direct competition.