Why some bare root trees just don't grow.

[WTNUT]

I have three unsolved mysteries in my orchard.

1. I have probably purchased 8 bare root Frostbite apple trees over the last five years. Some B-118, some EMLA 7 and at least one or two M-111. Zero have grown, Zero have died. They literally put on no growth. They have been planted in three different orchards on a 1,200 acre farm. It is in zone 5. They came from two different suppliers and in multiple years. Go figure.

2. Some bare root trees just don't grow and I don't know why. Luckily they are few, but like the Frostbite they don't die. They just stay the same size.

3. Finally, I have two spots in my orchard where not tree has ever grown. Again, it does not die, just does not grow.

Theories. ????


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[yoderjac]

Lots of possibilities. I don't think this is limited to bare root trees. I often cull sluggish seedlings. I planted 4 bare root tigertooth Jujube one year and two more the next. They all seemed to be growing about the same. I sprayed the field with gly one year and an unexpected gust of wind ended up wind drifting a little gly into the closest tree. Several branches died, but the tree lived. After 3 years, the others all grew normally but the one that was hit leafed out every year but barely grew at all. It produced much fewer leaves and grew much less. I finally decided to graft it to another variety. I cut it off and used a W&T graft. The scion leafed out and grew. The next year, the scion leafed out but grew slowly. After 3 years, the tree is no bigger than it was before I grafted it. It is still not 6' tall. The other trees are now as big as my forearm in caliper and about 15' tall. This one is not yet one inch in caliper.

It is not that I think you tree was hit by gly, but simply to use that as an example of some chemical/pathogen that the tree might encounter before or after it was planted may stunt the tree.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

I have a few Honeysweet pear trees on OHxF 87 that I put in spring of 2015 as 2' whips, first year they put on about 12" of growth straight up but nothing at all since, not even small branching. They put on leaves and look healthy but no new growth in two years and they are planted in nice loamy ground where other trees planted at same time are nine feet tall, thick and branched great now. These honeysweets are still as thin as pencils with no branches two years later.

 

[WTNUT]

That is the type of experience I am writing about. Same here.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Neahawg]

Some of our trees didn't really grow well til their third year in the ground though we do have an Ark black from a local nursery that has done about as well as you describe yourself as well as a Shannon Pippin that has not grown well.

 

[H20fwler]

Since I haven’t tried fertilizer on mine yet the plan is to go with triple 10 around the drip line in early spring and then again in early summer to see if I can get mine jump started?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

H20 - Just a note on the early summer fertilizing ......... most reliable sources say no later than the 1st of June for fertilizing. It's so any new growth that occurs has time to harden off before the next winter. I follow that same recommendation with our trees at camp. I put fertilizer down in early April & that's it for the year. Your needs may differ.

 

[Jhoss]

I have 30 chickens and I use pine shavings as bedding. This gets wheelbarrowed to the orchard at all times of the year. Any tree that looks to be struggling or slow gets a full load spread thick underneath. Not on the trunk and out past the drip line if possible. This is mostly out of necessity as I have to get rid of the manure somewhere (my cider trees dont get any to lessen the nitrogenous material available in fruit and thereby a slower ferment which is desireable)...eating trees are my primary target with the chicken manure. I've seen no sign of winter stress / die back because of it (ten years in). What is noticeable are thick green leaves and healthy looking growth. Mild winters in SE Michigan probably get me this bonus situation.

 

[WTNUT]

I have 30 chickens and I use pine shavings as bedding. This gets wheelbarrowed to the orchard at all times of the year. Any tree that looks to be struggling or slow gets a full load spread thick underneath. Not on the trunk and out past the drip line if possible. This is mostly out of necessity as I have to get rid of the manure somewhere (my cider trees dont get any to lessen the nitrogenous material available in fruit and thereby a slower ferment which is desireable)...eating trees are my primary target with the chicken manure. I've seen no sign of winter stress / die back because of it (ten years in). What is noticeable are thick green leaves and healthy looking growth. Mild winters in SE Michigan probably get me this bonus situation.

Yea, I don't have any chickens, but have use manure from the cattle barn and it does help. I took an inventory and really only have three trees that I am going to replace. They have all been in since 2013. I am going to pull them out late winter, cut them way back, and stick them in containers and see if I can put some growth on them at home. I may even try to graft them. I would need some advise and guidance on that. I would say all of the trunks are about 3/4 of an inch in diameter.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jhoss]

I delicately warn against your plan. I can only see setting them back with transplant shock. I've seen no slow-growers that cant be helped by fertilizer (manure) and water and maybe water being the most important. Now most of my trees grew in root-trapper bags before I planted them out, some of them had two growing seasons in these underground bags so they had massive root wads when I planted them out. But some were planted almost under drip lines of hardwood fencerows where the soil there is very depleted of nutrients and the big hardwood trees aspirate moisture leaving very little for whats left to fight over. Tractor delivered water during summer dry spells on top of a few wheelbarrows of chicken-manure (38% nitrogen) and BINGO - growth, green growth, happy tree.

 

[CrazyEd]

I agree with Jhoss. I dont think you gain anything by pulling them now. I too think that would just cause shock. I would try to spoil them for a season to really try and encourage some growth and if they don't do anything, rip them out and put them on the burn pile. In all the grafting and growing I've done (a few hundred trees), some trees just don't seem to have the same vigor as other trees. Some are runts.

I planted a frostbite tree in 2012 and for me it started producing in year 3 and has done so each year since. It's been a reliable producer but the insects do seem to like the fruit as well, more so than others.

 

[chickenlittle]

Be sure to prune lightly to encourage growth too.

 

[Maya]

What are the soil samples telling you. It's normally just that, or they are not getting enough sun. Don't let them fruit much and if, and only if they are "whippy" head them back some at the leader this spring. This will stiffen the tree some.

I don't have any Frostbite, so I really can't tell you, but some trees require more of certain micro nutrients than others. Some don't up take certain nutrients well out of their root system. Without seeing the trees at planting and now, I'd bet it's something in the soil they are missing. What have you done for fertilizing? How much sun do they get? How much water do they get?

Post pics...

 

[WTNUT]

What are the soil samples telling you. It's normally just that, or they are not getting enough sun. Don't let them fruit much and if, and only if they are "whippy" head them back some at the leader this spring. This will stiffen the tree some.

I don't have any Frostbite, so I really can't tell you, but some trees require more of certain micro nutrients than others. Some don't up take certain nutrients well out of their root system. Without seeing the trees at planting and now, I'd bet it's something in the soil they are missing. What have you done for fertilizing? How much sun do they get? How much water do they get?

Post pics...

Maya,

All great questions. I have four Frostbite I looked at since this thread started. Each one is in a different orchard/plot. Each orchard/plot is at least three acres in size with length of plot being nearly as wide as long, but not quite. The trees are planted in a singe row down the center of the plot. Some plots have 30 trees in them. I don't think it is lighting. As for how they look, they look the same today as when planted five (5) years ago (two only planted 3 years ago). They came from the orchard as feathered trees and the central leader and lateral headed back. They are not one foot taller than when planted and the laterals really have no growth. The soil is in plots. They are all nice clover plots with PH of 6.5 give or take one tenth. They get fertilizer when spread on the plots in the spring (6-24-24) 100 - 150 pounds per acre, plus the trees have received 1 cup of 10-10-10 around the drip line prior to the clover fertilizer. I normally give the 10-10-10 late May or Early April. Again, I will say not say I have never had a tree not take off because I have, especially when I first started and bought some container trees that were root bound. But, I can say out of all the frostbites I have planted - maybe 6-7 I have only had one put on normal growth and I really have not had any problems with other varieties in these plots/orchards. And, I am a variety guy so there are probably 70 different varieties in those 4 test plots/orchard that I use to base the above statements on.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[WTNUT]

Got some pics for examples.

All three of these trees were planted in 2012. One of the larger ones is a galarina and I don't recall the other one. All had the same care. The runt is the frostbite.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[WTNUT]

Now here comes a different orchard/plot.

The better looking tree with growth was planted this spring and the other a Frostbite was planted spring of 2016, both are EMLA 7 AND THIS FROSTBITE IS THE BEST I HAVE EVER HAD SO FAR OUT OF 5-7 TREES.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Maya]

WTNUT, beautiful spot!

From what I can tell from the pics I would suggest the following..... Get something down to keep that weed competition down. Even on a good growing trees you will sacrifice a lot of growth with all those weeds. Studies have shown a 20-30% difference by limiting competitive growth. Also in your last post/first pic, that tree has competing leaders. Keep the strongest and cut the other one out. also tie down those other branches to about a 60 degree angle. Again, you can see the branch on the bottom right wanting to compete to be the leader. These things will slow your upright growth. Do those things with those trees along w/ at least a cup of 10-10-10 or similar at around 1/2" green, and if you do not see at least 6" to the leader by mid May, put down another cup. Hope this helps.

The only other thing I can think of is that those others came in w/ weak root systems and the really need to be babied for a while. Some good manure will probably help things too.

I've had a few slower starters over the years, but have always gotten them going eventually.

 

[Maya]

Also that tree (last post/ first pic) appears to be getting pruned by deer! I wonder if that is some of your problem.

 

[WTNUT]

Also that tree (last post/ first pic) appears to be getting pruned by deer! I wonder if that is some of your problem.

I looked at that one close when I took the pic. The original central leader is in bad shape. I think that was from locust two years ago. They did set this tree back. I plant to cut it out and allow the very upright lateral to the left take over as the central leader. It is much healthier.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk