Web Soil Survey PH Values

[bowhunternw]

Would somebody who has done testing of their soils, be willing to see if it matches even reasonably close to the results given on the NRCS "web soil survey" website?

I have not done any testing yet and just curious if there is any merit to the numbers it throw out.

 

[nwmn]

I was told by a guy at the CHS in my town when I picked up fertilizer a few years back that nobody limes their fields around us and kind of gave me a weird look when I asked if there was any place a guy could get ag lime. I don't think ph is much of an issue up here as nobody seems to do it. I have yet to soil test myself, which I have probably paid for ten times over with crappy plots. That gives me a to do for this weekend now I guess.

ANybody use a local source for ph tests, or do you go through biologic online? My soil sample and check got lost in the mail last time I tried, so I guess I just didn't get back around to getting it done. Regrettably lazy I guess; that or too much to do with such little time!

 

[tooln]

The NRCS site will tell you the type of soil but I wouldn't trust it for the nutrients my soil needs.

 

[bowhunternw]

I was told by a guy at the CHS in my town when I picked up fertilizer a few years back that nobody limes their fields around us and kind of gave me a weird look when I asked if there was any place a guy could get ag lime. I don't think ph is much of an issue up here as nobody seems to do it. I have yet to soil test myself, which I have probably paid for ten times over with crappy plots. That gives me a to do for this weekend now I guess.

ANybody use a local source for ph tests, or do you go through biologic online? My soil sample and check got lost in the mail last time I tried, so I guess I just didn't get back around to getting it done. Regrettably lazy I guess; that or too much to do with such little time!

According to the soil survey the ph at my place runs between 6.5 and 7.5 and contains a fair amount of calcium carbonate, which I believe keeps the ph higher.

I am not sure of all the places around here that test, but I know for sure the extension at UMC does. If you test let me know what you find out because the soils are likely similar in what nutrients are missing.

 

[nwmn]

What's your predominant soil? Ours is mavie fine sandy loam

 

[wiscwhip]

Do you grow any alfalfa on that dirt? If your numbers are anywhere near what the WSS says they should be, you should have no trouble getting a good stand of alfalfa going in a sandy loam.

 

[SD51555]

If you're going to mail it off, I'd consider Aglab Express in Sioux Falls: http://aglabexpress.com/

Not only did they do my lone sample, the owner gave me a quick tour of the facility, explained the test to me, and BS'ed with me for about 15 minutes about no-till and cover cropping strategies for food plotting. I had my results in an email the following day. The one downside is that you don't get food plot species recommendations. They're purely geared towards ag. But if you can read the science, you can figure out what you need to do. He also gave me this gem: Fertilizer Recommendations Guide - EC750.pdf

 

[bowhunternw]

If you're going to mail it off, I'd consider Aglab Express in Sioux Falls: http://aglabexpress.com/

Not only did they do my lone sample, the owner gave me a quick tour of the facility, explained the test to me, and BS'ed with me for about 15 minutes about no-till and cover cropping strategies for food plotting. I had my results in an email the following day. The one downside is that you don't get food plot species recommendations. They're purely geared towards ag. But if you can read the science, you can figure out what you need to do. He also gave me this gem: Fertilizer Recommendations Guide - EC750.pdf

View attachment 4737

Is it anything close to what the soil survey says? Just playing around a bit, I found some in Cass county close to 5. If anyone doesn't know how to look up and is interested, it is on the web soil survey website through the NRCS. You find your piece and define it as AOI, then under the soils data explorer tab there will be a soils properties tab with one of the options soil PH. There is a lot of info on there, kind of neat.

 

[West Branch]

We haven't had any soil tests in recent year, but un-limed soil usually tested in the low 5s in our area. Sometimes below 5. The NRCS soil survey shows 5.3-5.8 depending on the soil. A lot of our fields have had a lot lime put on and get a pretty decent stand of alfalfa. The lastest tests showed right around 7 for some of the main fields I think.

The Trees and Shrubs of Minnesota book has a map that shows calcereous and non-calcereous soils (along with various other sand, bog, bedrock, etc.). From what I have read calcerous soils generally do not lime and are some of the best farm ground. I haven't seen the map anywhere online before, I will try to take a picture of it and post it later.

 

[West Branch]

I check the soil of some farms I know in Wright county and the NRCS shows 6.4-7.6 for all of them. The farmers I know in that area never lime and have some great looking alfalfa.

 

[SD51555]

I wasn't able to get it to load on my pc.

 

[West Branch]

I wasn't able to get it to load on my pc.

What browser? Freezes up in Internet Explorer for me. Works great on Chrome.

 

[SD51555]

Firefox

 

[bowhunternw]

So it sounds it may not be spot on but will give a pretty accurate rough estimate.

 

[bowhunternw]

Does anyone know how they gathered the data for the soil survey? Did they actually go out and criss cross the countryside with borings?

 

[wiscwhip]

Does anyone know how they gathered the data for the soil survey? Did they actually go out and criss cross the countryside with borings?

No, not really. They take random samples of areas which are consistent with what they term the "typical pedon" for that soil type and get a representative number for that soil type.

In case a novice isn't familiar with that term, I offer the following definition:

pedon. (pěd'ən) The smallest unit or volume of soil that contains all the soil horizons of a particular soil type. It usually has a surface area of approximately 1 sq m (10.76 sq ft) and extends from the ground surface down to bedrock. The American Heritage® Science Dictionary.

 

[wiscwhip]

I was looking at the WSS about a month ago for our old property, and it appears that the Soil Conservation Service has all of a sudden changed our soil type after all these years. I would assume this was based on a more recent soil survey. We were always listed as Friendship sand, 0 to 6% slope, and now the whole area is listed as Tarr sand(IIRC). They must have decided that after further review, it more closely resembled the typical pedon of the Tarr soil type than it did of the Friendship soils.

Sorry it was changed to Tint sand, 0 to 3% slope. Tarr sand makes up a smaller portion of the soil association.

 

[bueller]

Just played around on the NRCS site for a couple minutes. It classifies my place as Aldo sand, lake terrace, 0 to 3 percent slopes. For pH of the surface layer it shows 5.8. I tested a new plot this spring which to my knowledge had never seen lime or fertilizer. Biologic soil test showed it to be 5.5. I'd call that fairly accurate. The NRCS site gave a pH of 6.4 for "All Layers" (Weighted Average). I have no idea how deep down that type of testing would go but I imagine it's way deeper than anything of use to the average food plotter or farmer.

 

[wiscwhip]

Just played around on the NRCS site for a couple minutes. It classifies my place as Aldo sand, lake terrace, 0 to 3 percent slopes. For pH of the surface layer it shows 5.8. I tested a new plot this spring which to my knowledge had never seen lime or fertilizer. Biologic soil test showed it to be 5.5. I'd call that fairly accurate. The NRCS site gave a pH of 6.4 for "All Layers" (Weighted Average). I have no idea how deep down that type of testing would go but I imagine it's way deeper than anything of use to the average food plotter or farmer.

I'm betting that your area was changed recently as well bueller. Most of that area between Hwy 80 and Petenwell was always classified as Plainfield/Friendship sands or one of the various lowland/muck soils that are in that soil association if it was on lower ground(Meehan/Newson association). I find it interesting that the NRCS would make such broad changes in those areas, but it is good to see them continuing to improve and update soil information.

I found this when nosing around the WSS Official Series Descriptions:
"Prior to 1996, in Wisconsin, the concept of the Aldo series was included in the Brems series and the wet substratum phase of the Plainfield series (WI0380)."

 

[bueller]

I'm betting that your area was changed recently as well bueller. Most of that area between Hwy 80 and Petenwell was always classified as Plainfield/Friendship sands or one of the various lowland/muck soils that are in that soil association if it was on lower ground(Meehan/Newson association). I find it interesting that the NRCS would make such broad changes in those areas, but it is good to see them continuing to improve and update soil information.

I found this when nosing around the WSS Official Series Descriptions:
"Prior to 1996, in Wisconsin, the concept of the Aldo series was included in the Brems series and the wet substratum phase of the Plainfield series (WI0380)."

Yep. The main thing that separates the Aldo from the Plainfield sand is the water table. Plainfield being 7' or greater while the Aldo is at around 4'.