Sprays

[buckvelvet]

What is the best thread, pdf something that is everyone's go to for spray programs. What is dormant spraying? Just curious what most folks use for spray for disease, insects etc...want to learn going into the off season so I do a better job for next year.

 

[buckvelvet]

Ok here are some ideas I have found....

2009 QDMA Thread by Appleman.
https://www.qdma.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-22967.html

*Highlights*

qdmohio
I only planted my first set of trees in Spring of 2007, so I'm no expert on spraying by any means. About 95% of the trees/cultivars that I planted were classified as "disease-resistant" to at least several of the common diseases (fireblight, apple scab, cedar apple rust, powdery mildew). I planted those varieties specifically so I wouldn't have to do as much spraying. So, up to this point, all of my spraying has been focused on pests, not disease. The first summer I was introduced to the horticulture horror show that is the Japanese Beetle. I sprayed Sevin multiple times to take care of that. Then, I was informed by another orchardist that spraying Sevin can increase the spider mite population by killing some of their natural predators. Obviously, I did not want to do this. So, last year I sprayed Imidan. I didn't have quite the "residual" effect that I was hoping for, but it was better than Sevin in that regard, and supposedly wouldn't cause an increase in the mite population, as Sevin could.

I have been told by several people that the Japanese Beetle bag traps are the way to go. My uncle has a number of apple trees which he did not spray to kill Jap Beetles last summer. He did use the bag traps, though, and noticed a huge difference with his trees suffering very little damage from the JB's. I plan to use the bag traps this year and hope to cut down on the amount of spraying I have to do for them.

Later in the fall last year I did some spot spraying with "Spectracide" for what I think were tent caterpillars. I didn't find a lot of them, but there were a few here and there on a few trees. The Spectracide was something I had bought at Lowe's to spray for Potato Beetles in my garden, as Sevin did NOT kill the Potato Beetles. The Spectracide is a Pyrethrin product, I believe. It was labeled safe to spray on vegetables/fruit. It did a good job on the Potato Beetles in the garden and on the caterpillars in my apple trees.

Last year and this year I sprayed dormant oil, in early Spring.

Good notes in here about why Imidan over Sevin....

Anyone disagree with this point or have a reason to think otherwise?

WNY Tony
2. Plan on using the hanging bag contraption for the Jap. beetles.

3. I read that building some bird houses, I think specifically wren bird houses around apple trees as they will eat tent catipillars as well as aphids, etc. I think the key was making the hole in the birdhouse really small to avoid having other birds take them over. I'll look for the article when I go home.

2nd time someone mention jap beetle bags. Wren house is an interesting idea, anyone have experience w/ this?

Lickcreek

Dormant/All Season Spray Oil (“Superior”) (http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=672)

Complete Spray - concentrated Captan, Malathion and Sevin (http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=730)

Citrus, Fruit & Nut Orchard Spray (Natural) (http://www.millernurseries.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1153)

Sure miss Paul with everything Habitat stuff.

First time anyone mention what dormant oil actually is and/or called.

HunterDan

I've heard spraying sevin at certain times of the year decreases fruit production. Does anybody have any detail on this? Maybe if you sprayed when the trees were in bloom, you would kill bees or prevent them from pollinating the trees.

I've heard folks on HT say they use Sevin to thin fruit so i'm sure what he said here is right but how much is concentrated enough to thin, when should you thin, etc...?

Maya
Yes you are correct HD, seven is used as a chemical thinner along w/ others but I've got a meeting to go to and don't have time to elaborate.

Don't use pherimone traps for jap beatles unless you want to attract them, IMO.

A few misconceptions dispelled via Maya, lol!

Appleman
Spraying Plan : When to spray?, What to spray?:

First cover spray: tight cluster to pink,,apply imidan 70wp + captan 50wp, to control
and protect fruitlets from insect and scab damage.

Second cover spray: 90% petal fall, imidan 70wp + captan 50wp, high mating activity
for Plum Curcullio, Sawfly, Potato Leafhoppers, and Tarnish Plant Bugs. These are
the major insects that do the most damage to newly formed apples. I can not stress
enough the importance of doing a good job of spraying during this time. This is the
most critical time if good yields are to be obtained. Following a 30 day period after
petal fall, the population of these insects drops off significantly and the apples have
grown to sufficient size (thicker skin) by then to be less vulnurable of attack. I recommend
the use of Captan 50wp throughout this period, as it is still the primary scab season.

3rd cover spray: 7 to 10 days: imidan + captan (compatable mix)
4th and 5th cover spray: 10 to 12 days intervails: imidan + captan

around July 1st: Switch to Sevin XLR at the first sign of Japanese Beetles feeding in the orchard. Captan is no longer needed for trees planted for the intention of feeding wildlife.
Sevin is a thinning agent for apples, and a very good one for Honeycrisp. Sevin is
only effective as a thinner from fruit set (just after petal fall) up until the apple is less
than 12mm in diameter. By the time you spray for JB, Sevin no longer works as a thinner. Imidan provides only moderate control of JB. Japanese beetles have a penchant for
Honeycrisp and may have to spray every 5 to 7 days for good suppression, and continue until JB populations start to subside. Do not use beetle traps. The female pheromone will
attract male beetles for miles. So other than JB problems your spray program for wildlife should be completed by the 4th of July.

If growing a good crop of apples, of above medium quality, is your goal then this spraying plan should give you excellent results. Remember, a no spray plan will reduce yield, apple size, and the general health of the tree.

Some good info there....

Aerospacefarmer Apple Man are any of those sprayings controlling tent caterpillars? Can those chemicals be purchased by the average Joe apple dude? How much volume do you suggest per tree? Is it true that Sevin should only be applied after all buds are fertilized or have died? Is there a maximum of Sevin that should not be exceeded?

Great question, one that I would have wanted to know.

Appleman
For average " Joe The Fruit Tree Grower" for the control and suppression of most major
insects the following non-restrictive insecticides may be used for farm plantings and
commerical orchards. Imidan (by Gowan) , Avaunt (by Dupont) and, Calypso (by Bayer).
Imidan is the cheepest, but I like to use Avaunt due to low toxicity to mammals
and shorter REI (re-entry time) and is excellent for controlling Plum Curcullio. Check
with a local commercial grower to see if there is any state restrictions on these products.

For non-bearing trees, I recommend spray using a Imidan & Captan mix to promote healthy tree growth. Sevin XLR Plus is excellent for controlling Tent Caterpillers and
too is non-restrictive. Sevin XLR Plus is a very effective thinning agent. Application just
after fruit set will allow the King Blossom fruit to remain while aborting the smaller fruitlets.
The take home message is to use Sevin early after fruit set, and only if thinning is desired. Use 30 days after petal fall, if needed as an insecticide, for controlling Japanese Beetles and Catapillers.

Use 3 to 4 tablespoons of Imidan 70WP per gallon of water, and 3 to 4 tablespoons per gallon of water for Captan 50wp to your tank mix. Spray until chemical starts to drip for good coverage.

More great information.

Heres the reason not to use Bonide (I used it, damnet!) over a slightly more expensive thought.

 

[buckvelvet]

More 2009 thread info....

Appleman

Bonide Fruit Tree spray contains the insecticide malathion 6%, the fungicide
captan at 12%, and Carbaryl (better known as Sevin) at 3% concentation. This is
a very weak mixture that offers some suppression of insect and fugal damage but
at the expense of better fruit quality and yields. I compare it to trying to kill 100 flies
on the kitchen counter with a single swat of a fly's swatter.

I purchase my chemicals through United Agi Products (UAP). The company was
recently aquired by Crop Production Services and located in most states
through the USA. http://www.uap.com/uap/index.cfm?cid=7662
Use your zip code and product search to find a dealer near you. If you have problems,
let me know. I have a salesperson here in Vermont that I work with and will ask him
where there is a dealer near you.

For a broad-spectrum insecticide ask your dealer if he carries Imidan and/or Avaunt.
Both are very good choices for controlling insects. Imidan is cheaper, but is an
organophosphate, so therefore requires more caution when handling. Avaunt is
extremely affective, especially on Plum Curcullio, but at a higher cost. Having a
small commercial orchard, I prefer to alternate sprays for better efficacy and cost.
These products are non-retrictive here in Vermont, so do not require Applicator
certification. You will need to check with your dealer to see if there is any State
restrictions.

Captan, Imidan, & Carbaryl are compatable materials and can be mixed together.
Captan is packaged in a 6.5lb bag in granular form. Imidan is packaged in a 4 - 1lb
pouch. Sevin xlr comes in a 2.5 gallon container.

Developing a spray program for your apple tree plots is a very important step towards
producing a productive orchard that will be the envy of surrounding landowners and
bring hunting opportunity that was not thought possible. I know, I own one!

lassig
Is there a middle of the road plan for those of us the live 200+ miles from the farm? I just cannot spray every 10 to 14 days, since I may not be at the farm that often. Most of the time I am lucky to get there every third weekend and then have other chores to do also.

Any RUPs that you would recommend? I have a private applicators license and would go that way if results are better or if it increased the interval between sprayings.

I still a bit confused as to when to spray dormant oil. I believe I am to late for this year, since I few of the existing trees are leafing out already. Really hard to get to the farm on a winter day that is about freezing over night.

Great question for us hobbiest...

Appleman

lassig, Don't worry about spraying dormant oil unless you have a high ERM (mite)
population. These leaf sucking insects don't usually reach IPM thresholds to warrent
control. The presents of predatory mites usually keeps them in check in smaller
orchards. For the purpose of growing apples for wildlife you should be able to omit
dormant oil spray.

If you have to delay spraying due to the distance from your home to your orchard I
would use Avaut, Actara, or Calypso insecticide. It cost more but the active ingredients has longer carry-over protection. A 14 day delay is a bit risky just after petal fall. If at all possible, try to get up there to do a spray just after petal fall and at least a second cover spray 10 to 14 days later. This is what is known as the "critical time" where most of the damage to fruit occurs. If you have only non-bearing trees, then forget what I just said
and spray when possible. (Liberty, M111).

 

[buckvelvet]

2010 Thread with more great info.
https://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36243

*Highlights*

smsmith vis fshafly2

2009 Spraying Schedule
1. 17 March: damoil, Kocide
2. 31 March: captan; NOVA 40W
3. 13 April: captan; NOVA 40W
a. 13 April: agrimycin w/chemwett
b. 19April: agrimycin w/chemwet
c. 26 April: agrimycin w/chemwett
4. 12 May: captan, Nova 40W, imidan; Delta Ag foliar calcium
5. 25 May: imidan ziram; Delta Ag foliar calcium
6. 13 June: captan, pristine, imidan
7. 30 June: ziram, Delta Ag foliar calcium, imidan
8. 19 July: captan, pristine, imidan
9. 8 Aug: captan, pristine, imidan"

Gosh that is a lot of spraying, lol BV, Epic fail in '15!

Aerospacefarmer I ended up spraying 2x this year with Imidan and Captan and added some Sevin to take care of the JB which were not as bad here as usual. I dont have many trees bearing fruit yet but next year I will probably spray at least 3x to give my apples a bit of protection even though I do plant mostly disease resistant but not exclusively. I had some points in the year where I got brownish and yellow leaves but the trees later leaf growth came back green and healthy.

Did I miss something from the 2009 thread or doesn't Imidan do what Sevin does only takes care of aphids to. Maybe Paul just didn't know this back then or I may be completely missing the point. Entirely possible!

Bnhpr
If you spray your trees 4-6 times, at the correct timing, your growth goals will not be hindered by bugs/disease. wet all leaves top and bottom, all wood trunk, etc.

Captan 50W/Imidan 80W (1 tbs/ 1/2 teaspoon) per gallon

1/2" green
Full pink
petal fall
3 weeks later (or after 2" rain gauge)
3 weeks later (or after 2" rain gauge)
3 weeks later (or after 2" rain gauge)

Buy your chems at farm supply, or get on the phone and find them.

Someone chime in about CAR, since I know nothing about it, except that I don't have it.

Ben such a wealth of knowledge also!

Bnhpr
When there is 1/2" of green leaf material showing, wet the entire tree down. You'll see all the creepy crawlies out sunbathing and getting ready to lay eggs and start the spring feast......die I say!

Full pink is just before the first flower opens. (Dont spray during bloom, but hit them before and after as close to bloom as possible)..... then we say full pink extended, then king bloom....goes the terminology. The "king" is the first bloom of the cluster, and is usually the best apple in the cluster.

Need I say more? Don't spray when it blooms people! :)

Bnhpr
Captan, in excess amounts will thin some when the fruit is very small and prone to drop. Usually not a problem, but be aware of it.

The simple spray program is for the average property own to get his trees to the point where he can walk away and get piles of deer apples out of them....by year 10 or so.

I sat in this springs apple meeting at highmoor farm beside a gentleman and his wife still in the retail business. He took over his fathers standard orchard in the 70's and replanted much of it M7. He uses captan and imidan, period. I recent years he sprays crop oil during dormancy for mites. That's it. His apples look great.

Captan can thin but only in excess. I guess that would just be for all these spraying chemicals, more is not a good thing without the proper time in between.....less is more, or more is less........:)

 

[buckvelvet]

2012 Thread.
https://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48556

*Highlights*

Bnphr
Silver tip. Oil
Green tip, captan, pristine
1/2" green captan, imidan
Tight cluster. Captan, imidan
Full pink. Captan avaunt, nova
Bloom agrimycin
Petal fall captan, avaunt, imidan
1st cover. Captan, avaunt, pristine
2nd. Captan, imidan, nova

That seems easy enough, good gracious i'm gonna need a calendar for this stuff!

Appleman

Silver tip - oil but not when its freezing outside. Oil will damage tender
leaves in freezing temps.

Green tip - Pristine and Captan, but not this early stage since it is way too cold for scab innoculum to be released. Wait until temps to recover into the
50's

Degree day units and bud stage are way out of cync.......I would wait until
degree day units are satisfied for scab before spraying and not pay attention to bud stage. You will only waste chemical.

I like your spray schedule if growing for wildlife. If you are looking
for cleaner fruit, I would add to the mix Flint or Sovran for July and Aug.

great clarifications!

Maya
Apple Man, you said you are using flint or sovran for July /Aug, for Fly spec/sooty blotch? I used two sprays of Sovran early last year when we had all the rain and saved one spray for late July and had good control for FS/ sooty. (just for the record, I'm not talking deer apples here. I don't think you need to spray this late for deer by any means) How did you use your sprays of Sovran last year?

Even though I'm at 1/4 to 1/2" I'm not sraying Cap or Im yet. Checked w/ UVM and looked at NEWA weather, doesn't seem to be nearly enough degree days built up, but of course that is just my area, it may not be the case for others in more southern areas.

19 degrees so far at 6:00 AM.

Good notes on Sovran!

Apple man did say that some of the chemicals ben said to use need an applicators license in certain states that the captan/imidan program is better suited for hobbiest orchards and wild life feeding.

 

[buckvelvet]

Another 2012 thread by our ol pal CrazyEd.
https://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?p=520232#post520232

*Highlights*

Spraying for Wildlife Orchard
A regimen or spraying program should include a pesticide and fungicide spray. Bonide or Fruit Tree Spray is too weak to do a good job, consisting of low concentrations of Malathion an organophosphate insecticide and Captan a fungicidal spray. Its not worth the container it is bottled in.

I use Imidan 70wp (phosmat) which is a much stronger organophosphate material along with Captan 80WGR a granular fungicidal spray. Together they offer good protection and control of most major insects and apple scab. There are other useful chemicals but for wildlife projects this is more than adequate. If you are looking to grow premium quality fruit, send me a private message and I will share with you what I know.

A spraying schedule made easy is to spray a mix of Imidan and Captan (2 tablespoons per gallon of water) at tight cluster to first pink, no spraying, during bloom, 2nd cover spray at 90% petal fall, and then 7 to 10 days until July 1st. Then, every 10 to 14 days for the month of July. Most of the major insect damage occurs during this period. A continued spraying program after this time is necessary to grow high quality fruit. But for wildlife apple tree plots should prove satisfactory. Its best to keep it as simple as possible. I'm sure you will get more advice, but you need to decide how much time and money you are willing to invest.

Spraying for Growing Premium Fruit
You first need a working knowledge of plant phyonology. Simply speaking the steps of various bud development stages that initiate a critical time window for chemical spraying. Early on in the season you will be spraying to control apple scab and insects. The stage known as 1/2 green will be the time for your first cover spray. This is just after green tip when you see the first green tissue popping out of the buds. When the green leaf tissue is approximately 1/2 inch (looks like little horns) its time to spray. Mix 2 tablespoons each of 70wp Imidan and 80wp Captain. The efficacy of the spray is good for 7 to 10 days or when one inch of rain has fallen as measured by a rain gauge.

2nd Cover Spray: During the bud stage known as tight cluster to first pink. (A period just before bloom) same chemicals as above.

Bloom: NO CHEMICALS SPRAYED - COULD KILL BEES!

3rd Cover Spray: At 90% petal fall. Do not wait for all petals to fall from tree. Very important to spray at this time to prevent Plum Cucullio, Sawfly EAS, Potato Leafhopper, Tarnish Plant Bug damage. Spore levels are very high during this period that cause leaf or apple scab. I use a mix of Imidan, Captan, and Soveran (or Flint). Soveran or Flint is a fungicide, which unlike Captan is trans laminar which means that it's absorbed into the leaf tissue and is not easily washed away by rainfall. Mix 2 tablespoons each of Imidan and Captan, and 2 ounces of Soveran or Flint to a 15 gallon spray tank. Do no more than 4 sprays of Soveran in a given season to prevent resistance.

Subsequent sprays: 10 to 14 days as needed or when one inch of rain has accumulated. By mid-July you should have used your second application of Sovran. Captain and Imidan serve as your base mix throughout the spraying season through July and August. By late August the need for an Insecticide is finished. Save your third and forth use of Sovran with Captan mixed until mid and late Aug. This is to protect from sooty blotch and flyspeck. No more spraying necessary after Labor day.

I do like to use Avaunt by Dupont if you can get it. It's as good as Imidan and easier to use. Some states require an applicator license before using it.

There is more information to share than I have time for, But if you have a specific question, I will get back with you. Each insect or disease that I mentioned above can open up a whole new sub chapters. The list of chemicals available to the apple grower are many. Hopefully, this will get you on your way to grow premium fruit of your own!

One other recommendation is to use a foliar spray recommended for apple trees. Limit it to 4 applications after petal fall. All chemicals mentioned are compatible so can be mixed together.

Some great info there Matt, thanks!

 

[buckvelvet]

Is your main goal to grow fruit for yourself/for friends/to sell/giveaway or for the critters?

Its mostly gonna be ate by wild life i'm sure i'm just 1 family man who will give away some apples here and there and make loads of apple baked goods and sauce.

Just got to really buckle down and get a program together from all these wealth of knowledge above.

I only have 1 backpack sprayer and i've only used gly out of it, no way not even if I cleaned it would i spray my trees w/ that thing, lol.

 

[Freeborn]

If you're going to spray, then following some of the advice you've dug up already is a good idea. I'd get a sprayer that is for fruit trees only.

What is the difference? Do you have an example?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I'm not completely sold that something that kills bugs is good for people, so I haven't sprayed any of my fruit trees. They're starting to produce and the apples are still pretty decent, so I'll probably stick with this plan until I see a problem develop. There are quite a few wild trees in our area that produce fine eating apples without any sprays. Just have to pick the nice looking ones and leave the others for the deer.

I have a couple older apple trees in my yard and I've had pretty good luck getting decent fruit by hand thinning the young apples with insect damage. The deer like the defects I drop on the ground and the remaining apples seem to grow much larger and better looking than apples on trees that aren't selectively thinned.

 

[buckvelvet]

I'm not completely sold that something that kills bugs is good for people, so I haven't sprayed any of my fruit trees. They're starting to produce and the apples are still pretty decent, so I'll probably stick with this plan until I see a problem develop. There are quite a few wild trees in our area that produce fine eating apples without any sprays. Just have to pick the nice looking ones and leave the others for the deer.

I have a couple older apple trees in my yard and I've had pretty good luck getting decent fruit by hand thinning the young apples with insect damage. The deer like the defects I drop on the ground and the remaining apples seem to grow much larger and better looking than apples on trees that aren't selectively thinned.

Interesting thoughts Ben. I guess on these big trees that'd be really hard to hand prune when their mature though.

 

[Rally1148]

I'm not completely sold that something that kills bugs is good for people, so I haven't sprayed any of my fruit trees. They're starting to produce and the apples are still pretty decent, so I'll probably stick with this plan until I see a problem develop. There are quite a few wild trees in our area that produce fine eating apples without any sprays. Just have to pick the nice looking ones and leave the others for the deer.

I have a couple older apple trees in my yard and I've had pretty good luck getting decent fruit by hand thinning the young apples with insect damage. The deer like the defects I drop on the ground and the remaining apples seem to grow much larger and better looking than apples on trees that aren't selectively thinned.

I'm in a pretty similar boat here. I think that at least for my own apples, I'm only going to spray to prevent major damage to the tree (i.e. japanese beetles, tent cats). There are still a lot of unknowns as far as chronic/cumulative exposure to pesticides (among a long list of other chemicals cleared by the FDA). As a bio geek, I'm especially weary of what my sprays are doing to the insect population around my trees. Even with careful spraying, I wonder what the active ingredients break down into, but more importantly, and perhaps scarier, what the inactive ingredients (which aren't tested) break down into or how long they stay in the soil. IMO/IMBE (In my brief experience) adequate results can be had without much spraying. At this point, I just don't see it as really worth it. I'll probably change my tune on this as I get more experience, but like anything else our views change based on our own experiences.

Also I want to add how great it is to be able to talk honestly and openly about all of this stuff even when we have different opinions. Not that it's the most important thing in the world, but I've never really felt like I was made to be the odd one out here, regardless of my opinions. I can't say the same for other sites. We've got a great group of people here who aren't "know-it-alls", but certainly know it all! It makes doing this stuff even more fun! We've got to have a beer sometime!

 

[wiscwhip]

but more importantly, and perhaps scarier, what the inactive ingredients (which aren't tested) break down into or how long they stay in the soil.

This is a concern that many have when it comes to the environmental impacts of ag chemicals in general. The reason Monsanto came up with the Aquamaster gly formula was that the "inactives" in Roundup were found to be extremely toxic to fish and amphibians, dispite being deemed "perfectly fine" for mammals.

 

[Rally1148]

Is that what is currently available to people? (Genuine question).... to me it's not just a bad guy Monsanto type deal. I also think this a very important conversation for people to have. Imho its not one that is a simple black or white. There are lots of things out there that we may be doing harm with. I fully understand that our current system of ag isn't suited well for other alternatives, and I understand their importance. I didn't mean to be bashing the use of pesticides, although I think in many cases, as consumers, our superficial idea of what our food should look like requires it. It's a tough situation, especifically for farmers.

For now I'm trying to do as much as possible without pesticides. I figure if I can't do it with reasonable success I can't expect it to be profitable for others. Without consumer thought changing. But then should we simply base foodo production on profibility? It's an interesting and important issue, and one that as people worried about habitat/nature can put us in a tricky spot between good enough and optimum.

Issues like these are often those that i find extremely interesting. Currently im sitting at a campfire with a few empty beers in the cooler. But later I'll be posting another thread on the same line of making things with with our goals and those of general wildlife work.

 

[buckvelvet]

Oh great, you dang tree huggers have me on the ropes now, lol!


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[Rally1148]

Oh great, you dang tree huggers have me on the ropes now, lol!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Trees tanks are huggers and we still love them! My main thoughts are tonwards the major players with regards to spraying volume. I don't think the backyard orchard Istanbul is a huge problem :)

Edit: b as backyard orchardist*

 

[buckvelvet]

Idk cells of ISIS are usually insignificant in size .


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[Rally1148]

Idk cells of ISIS are usually insignificant in size .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Damn Turkish phone changes orchardist to Istanbul!

 

[Rally1148]

If you're going to spray, then following some of the advice you've dug up already is a good idea. I'd get a sprayer that is for fruit trees only.

So if I've got a 25gal yard sprayer (was previously used in yhe guy'said yard) I should get a new tank/hoses if I want to use it for non herbicides? I know that ideally I would, but how well do tank cleaners work?

 

[Rally1148]

^^^I'm not the guy to ask...because I wouldn't use a sprayer for my fruit trees that I've used before for herbicide, and I wouldn't use a sprayer for my fruit trees that somebody else used for God knows what.

That's kinda how i'm thinking as well.

 

[buckvelvet]

To the top since we are gaining steam towards spraying 2016...