Food plotting strategy

[S.T.Fanatic]

I think you're right. It does bring up the question though of the term naturalized? Wild apples are not native to the Northeast, but they grow naturally in the wild like weeds. They have been naturalized. Soybeans or rye or brassicas do not grow naturally in the wild. You can get them to grow annually with heavy investments of time and energy and resources. Does the term "naturalized" still apply in the very technical sense of the word?

Don't mind me....I'm just bored at work right now during my lunch break.

I am using the term "naturalized" in reference to agricultural crops that have been and will be planted for a long time. Many of them are annuals and would not "naturalize" without human intervention but I think you can understand what I am getting at.

 

[Bucktown]

Hey guys....simply saying the following. Plant crops that have grown for centuries in your area and definitely plant them in a mix to avoid a crop failure. Naturalized is in fact a much better word. Thanks for that help! Monoculture is a bad idea, couldn't agree more. Tried and true methods usually don't involve a "buck on a bag mix", however. A lot of those mixes are put together to insure something grows and turns green. The Lick Creek mix is a good example. Nothing against them or anyone there, but i can't figure out why you would plant that mix together at the same time? In central WI for example, best planting window for clover is March/April in the snow or frost during the freeze thaw cycle. Best time to plant brassicas, Late July/early August. Best planting window for most cereal grains, either side of labor day. To Jack's point, there isn't a magic bullet and food plots only are a sliver of the whitetails diet. My argument is to use the right tool for the job at the right time of year and create your variety that way. Here, we plant clover as snow melts. Beans when the soil warms to 55-60. Take out a portion to all of the beans depending on grazing and pod development and plant a cereal grain blend. If we feel the urge, we sometimes plant a brassica of some sort (turnips, radishes etc) with the cereal grains but at a half or quarter rate. Again, just trying to get back to the biology of the deer providing spring protein and fall carbs. Provide those is a form that is "naturalized" to your area the deer will eat it. Also keeps your cost down significantly as opposed to the bags with a picture of Tiffany :) Have a great day all!

 

[SwampCat]

Does this not contradict the theory of something like the Lick Creek mix for example? The 10-45-45% combo is not insurance against a crop failure. It's to give the deer a variety of something in that plot early spring through fall.


What?

In my area, deer like wheat. I can plant rye and they will eat the heck out of it - but if I plant wheat and rye side by side, they will walk through the rye to get to the wheat. But, I wouldn't feel bad at all planting only rye in the food plots. My deer are not crazy about brassicas. Maybe if I planted them more often and they got used to them, they would eat them better. But, wheat is easy to grow, cheap, and does well in my clover plots. They eat wheat and clover to the bare dirt - so I don't see a reason to offer them anything else in the winter. I plant soybeans for summer - and along with the clover and wheat, there is a year round supply in my food plots. If I had one or two acres I was planting, I might go with more variation. I am to the point, planting forty or fifty acres each year, I need something quick and easy - where I buy my seed by the pallet. I think the deer hit the food plots so hard is because they are easy feeding - like an area where the acorns cover a solid two acres - the deer will be coming to it because it is easy - and they like it.

 

[j-bird]

Foodplots and what to plant and the details and the like would take a book to cover it all. Plant what works for you in your situation and meets your needs is about as simple as I can put it. Offering diversity has it's advantages, but sometimes you want a monoculture simply to maximize the food produced. It all depends on the situation and your goals.

A food plot book I still go back to from time to time is "Quality Food Plots" - I bought mine thru QDMA.....but I am sure it is available in other locations. The resources here and on a few other forums is also great because you get real world folks with dirt on their hand experiences that may be even in your general area.

 

[yoderjac]

Hey guys....simply saying the following. Plant crops that have grown for centuries in your area and definitely plant them in a mix to avoid a crop failure. Naturalized is in fact a much better word. Thanks for that help! Monoculture is a bad idea, couldn't agree more. Tried and true methods usually don't involve a "buck on a bag mix", however. A lot of those mixes are put together to insure something grows and turns green. The Lick Creek mix is a good example. Nothing against them or anyone there, but i can't figure out why you would plant that mix together at the same time? In central WI for example, best planting window for clover is March/April in the snow or frost during the freeze thaw cycle. Best time to plant brassicas, Late July/early August. Best planting window for most cereal grains, either side of labor day. To Jack's point, there isn't a magic bullet and food plots only are a sliver of the whitetails diet. My argument is to use the right tool for the job at the right time of year and create your variety that way. Here, we plant clover as snow melts. Beans when the soil warms to 55-60. Take out a portion to all of the beans depending on grazing and pod development and plant a cereal grain blend. If we feel the urge, we sometimes plant a brassica of some sort (turnips, radishes etc) with the cereal grains but at a half or quarter rate. Again, just trying to get back to the biology of the deer providing spring protein and fall carbs. Provide those is a form that is "naturalized" to your area the deer will eat it. Also keeps your cost down significantly as opposed to the bags with a picture of Tiffany :) Have a great day all!

That is a bit of an overstatement. Monocultures have their place in deer management as well. As you say, finding the right tool to achieve your goals is the key. For example, in areas in the south where summer is the primary stress period and deer densities are high and summer weed competition is a big factor, monocultures can make it much easier to establish warm season annuals with low cost herbicides. Monocultures are most effective when used in rotation. A good example is how farmers rotate beans and corn. This can alleviate many of the soil issues monoculutres present.

When talking food plot strategies, folks need to start with goals. What are you trying to accomplish? Is it attraction? Improved hunting? Improving herd health?...

Next, assess what is available already and the spatial relationships. For someone trying to improve hunting on a small property, the location of a food plot may be much more important than what you plant.

Once you have reasonable goals given the land you own, consider your time available and budget. Are food plots even the best place to apply it? If they are, you can then start thinking about a planting approach. Is high input an approach for you? Are you better off looking at soil health for sustainability? Deep tillage can be a great form of weed control, but what impacts does it have in the long term on soils? Herbicides can be a great tool for weed control but they too have downsides. How about weed tolerance? Should your food plots look like a farmer's field? Are the plants that farmers call weeds also weeds for deer managers? How about permaculture? What happens when something changes in your life and you can't plant high intensity food plots? Do you have sufficient permaculture in your plan to cover this?

Food plots strategies are a very broad topic with lots of considerations even before we get to what seed to plant. There are advantages and disadvantages to all of these choices. Other than broad generalizations, it really boils down to matching the tools and techniques to your goals, resource limitations, and local conditions.

Thanks,

jack

 

[yoderjac]

One more note for many of the new guys posting great stuff on this thread: Consider going to your profile and including your general location and USDA zone. As we ask questions and give advice, it really helps to know where folks are located. As this thread shows, what works great in one location may be a failure in another.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bucktown]

Great points Jack, you'll get no disagreement here. Central WI monocultures are risky business and I think you are 100% correct in other areas. Have a great day.

 

[yoderjac]

Great points Jack, you'll get no disagreement here. Central WI monocultures are risky business and I think you are 100% correct in other areas. Have a great day.

They don't generally plant corn as a monoculture and rotate them with beans in WI?

 

[Bucktown]

They don't generally plant corn as a monoculture and rotate them with beans in WI?

2 things on that one:

1. Yes, in parts of the state. Where we are, no it doesn’t happen. Not enough soil quality or growing season to make the risk worth it. Risk of frost persists well into May and begins by early September. Our farms to the south, yes...

2. Regarding the rest, farming monocultures of corn and beans is a far cry from food plotting. We have farms we work south of Highway 29 (southern 1/2 of WI) as well. Input costs, especially for corn, to do it right and protect your long term soil investment are cost probibitive for most food plotters. Count on $500-$600/acre to produce a crop that yields 160-180 bushels/acre. Pretty tough business these days.

 

[yoderjac]

Didn't realize that. Ya learn something new every day. In my area, there is no need for corn. I often mix a little RR corn in with my beans to provide vertical cover to encourage daytime use but it is a low rate of corn. Here summer is the major stress period where beans provide the cover. However, you might be surprised how many food plotters with significant acreage on this forum in the north use corn as part of their food plot plan. Perhaps they are not in central WI. I think some folks plant corn and sell enough of it to cover the cost of planting it plus what they leave for deer in the winter.

Your situation is similar to mine in that we are working on marginal soils. Mine is heavy clay. I'm not sure about yours, perhaps sandy. I'm on a pine farm. If the soils were good, it would be a working farm instead of pines.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

2 things on that one:

1. Yes, in parts of the state. Where we are, no it doesn’t happen. Not enough soil quality or growing season to make the risk worth it. Risk of frost persists well into May and begins by early September. Our farms to the south, yes...

2. Regarding the rest, farming monocultures of corn and beans is a far cry from food plotting. We have farms we work south of Highway 29 (southern 1/2 of WI) as well. Input costs, especially for corn, to do it right and protect your long term soil investment are cost probibitive for most food plotters. Count on $500-$600/acre to produce a crop that yields 160-180 bushels/acre. Pretty tough business these days.

Really? So crop farmers in your area dont plant corn one year and then rotate it to beans the next year? I know I'm not from your area but I find this hard to believe. I'm not a farmer but have been told by a farmer that many times 95 day corn is his best producer. The frost dates that you provided leave plenty of time for that.

Maybe i'm just misunderstanding the topic.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Bucktown - Where are you at in WI where they don't grow soybeans and corn?

I own land in Rusk County which is NW WI and it's pretty cold there most of the time. The soil there isn't the greatest either, but there's lots of corn and soybeans planted. Corn and soybeans are hard to beat up there when it comes to food plot choices. I will say that alfalfa, clover, chicory, etc. also gets a lot of use up there as well.

 

[Bucktown]

Correct, where I hunt and food plot, corn/beans are rare, basically Lincoln/Langlade county North. It's entirely too risky, even at 85 day corn. Poor soil, combined with poor growing season and there you have it. When your livelihood depends on it, you don't do it. Of course, there are exceptions, but that's what they are, exceptions. As you move south (say between highway 64 and 10), you will start to see it, but right through the center of the state most agricultural applications are under heavy irrigation to make it work because soils are so sandy it won't grow without daily water. Second largest potato producing region in the US to give you an idea. Southern WI from border to border it's everywhere. Think of it like this...Grant County Wisconsin is a lot like Iowa. Iron County Wisconsin (6 hours away) is a lot like Canada. Just very different regions and conditions.
Again the issue is what you are trying to accomplish. To grow a decent stand of corn for grain, most guys find it cost prohibitive. There's not much debate that growing corn for grain, long term, is north of $500/acre to do it right. Granted there will be some that do it anyway, even for food plots. We do see guys, like Jack mentions, that grow it for screening cover and don't really care if it cobs or not. I've seen some larger tracts in Central/Southern WI grow corn and harvest some, but in no way recover their costs, only offsets it, especially after paying for a combine. Depending on your delivery point, most corn in WI delivered between $2.79 and $3.05 per bushel. Ughhhh.....

 

[Bucktown]

Ben.MN

Bucktown - Where are you at in WI where they don't grow soybeans and corn?

I own land in Rusk County which is NW WI and it's pretty cold there most of the time. The soil there isn't the greatest either, but there's lots of corn and soybeans planted. Corn and soybeans are hard to beat up there when it comes to food plot choices. I will say that alfalfa, clover, chicory, etc. also gets a lot of use up there as well.

My in laws are in Rusk County, near Ladysmith, know the area well. There are corn and beans in that area, but you won't find a farmer there that isn't starving their farm for trying it. Id bet Average yields there are in the 130's. There's a reason those dairy farms are falling down. Food plots, sure, give it a go with corn and you'll be able to grow beans. Don't try to feed anything more than your family though :) Agreed, clover, alfalfa and cereal grains equally or more productive and more reliable.

 

[Natty Bumppo]

I am using the term "naturalized" in reference to agricultural crops that have been and will be planted for a long time. Many of them are annuals and would not "naturalize" without human intervention but I think you can understand what I am getting at.

Yes...that makes sense!

Hey guys....simply saying the following. Plant crops that have grown for centuries in your area and definitely plant them in a mix to avoid a crop failure. Naturalized is in fact a much better word. Thanks for that help! Monoculture is a bad idea, couldn't agree more. Tried and true methods usually don't involve a "buck on a bag mix", however. A lot of those mixes are put together to insure something grows and turns green. The Lick Creek mix is a good example. Nothing against them or anyone there, but i can't figure out why you would plant that mix together at the same time? In central WI for example, best planting window for clover is March/April in the snow or frost during the freeze thaw cycle. Best time to plant brassicas, Late July/early August. Best planting window for most cereal grains, either side of labor day. To Jack's point, there isn't a magic bullet and food plots only are a sliver of the whitetails diet. My argument is to use the right tool for the job at the right time of year and create your variety that way. Here, we plant clover as snow melts. Beans when the soil warms to 55-60. Take out a portion to all of the beans depending on grazing and pod development and plant a cereal grain blend. If we feel the urge, we sometimes plant a brassica of some sort (turnips, radishes etc) with the cereal grains but at a half or quarter rate. Again, just trying to get back to the biology of the deer providing spring protein and fall carbs. Provide those is a form that is "naturalized" to your area the deer will eat it. Also keeps your cost down significantly as opposed to the bags with a picture of Tiffany :) Have a great day all!

I guess I am lucky...because there is no ag anywhere around me for 20, 30, 40 miles. My neck of the woods was historically sheep and dairy. Thus far, everything I have tried in my plots has been completely mowed down by deer. If I plant it....they eat it...birdsfoot trefoil, rye, buckwheat, clover, etc. I am doing mostly rye and buckwheat to build my soils. My goal was always to be able to do some kind fo LC mix. Your points resonated with me though. Thanks for taking the time to write.

 

[SwampCat]

I would try some corn at my place - but most southern food plotters have to deal with hogs - and corn and hogs dont go together. I do plant sunflowers for doves and do rotate fields from sunflowers to beans.

 

[Bucktown]

This will only reinforce the point that Jack addressed earlier. Widely variable conditions yield widely variable results. This production map in WI gives you a pic of not only The availability of crop ground but also the quality based on yields. I food plot in Lincoln/Langlade county. Crappy ground, high risk planting areas commercially. Same for food plots. We also farm further south, much better. Anyway, thanks all for the discussion.

 

[H20fwler]

My strategy is to feed deer year round and try and help them late in the year. I put in one acre food plots of mixed clovers and chicory that get browsed all summer, in fall after a couple hard frosts they get eatin up. I also plant sugar beets/turnips/radishes mixes with a heavy on the sugar beets, that starts getting hit after the first good freeze and on into winter.
Planting corn/beans/wheat/oats is worthless for me being in such a big agricultural area of rotated crops..and I can feed straight out of a feeder here.

 

[FarmerDan]

Really? So crop farmers in your area dont plant corn one year and then rotate it to beans the next year? I know I'm not from your area but I find this hard to believe. I'm not a farmer but have been told by a farmer that many times 95 day corn is his best producer. The frost dates that you provided leave plenty of time for that.

Maybe i'm just misunderstanding the topic.

Not to butt in, but there are millions of acres of cropland that a have been planted to corn year, after year, after year. You look at yields. You look at cost of production. You look at prices and make a decision. It mostly happens in areas with shorter growing (one year - one crop) season and potential for high yields. Corn needs to be planted in a 10-day window for optimum yields. Corn gets planted first. When the window starts to close, corn yield potential starts to sink and soybeans become more attractive economically. Rotation by default. Think of Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota. Here in Virginia we can do two crops in one year which makes a small grain-soybean rotation the crop of choice. Tradition still rules and corn gets planted when it seems to make no economic sense. I guess its old school rotation thinking....not that its a bad decision. But, economics (all those things mentioned above) do play a role.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

I get the one year one rotation. Being from Minnesota I just assumed that’s what jack was talking about.

I couldn’t understand the notion that there wasn’t enough time to grow a halfway decent crop of corn.

Turning a profit is a separate discussion and if your trying to provide for your family then I totally understand. Why plant something your going to loose money on.




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