Cummins poor customer service

[dipper]

just got off the phone with Steve, the apparent owner of cummins nursery. Needless to say I will not be doing business with him anymore. First off, he has no interest dealing with non commercial growers. He told me that flat out. Second, they will not stand behind their product.
I Grafted 35 pear trees this spring. 25 of the rootstock I started myself from seed in 2014. I ordered 10 ohxf97 because I had a lot of scions coming in. They arrived and looked horrible. Some of them had two little stubs for roots, the rest didn't have much more.
My mistake, I should have sent them back but my gut was out weighted by my drive to graft.
All pears were handled the same way as the other 50 Apple grafts I did. Needless to say every single one of my pear rootstock took, some of which are 2' plus. 4 of the 10 cummins rootstock had zero life. They basically sent me some twigs, with damp bottoms.
Steve initially told me 100% of his pear rootstock lived, but that rootstock is difficult to attain life. He said it was 100% my fault, and I'm a nobody grower. I agreed I am a nobody, but every single rootstock I worked with at least showed life. 40% of his product was defective, and if I only produced 40% of the time in my profession, I would be unemployed. He got pissed and his character showed. He reminded me he could careless about 4 petty rootstock. I said that's fine, but it's 40% of what I paid for, that is unacceptable. I told him if it's only $12, what's it matter to him? He belittled my experience some more, and finally informed me "policy" is a refund, but I pay shipping. I said that's fine, you would have saved yourself frustration, by just telling me that right away.
This is an FYI. I could care less about $12, myself, but I always like to test the back bone of any company I do business with. This $12 was just a test, and in my opinion, he failed. He made it clear he doesn't trust growers, especially hobbyist like us. Just like many busineses, he wants the easy money, from the experts.
Some of you guys place some pretty hefty orders with this company. Buyer beware, they are pleasant taking your money, and defensive when an issue arises.

 

[MoLandOwner]

I am a firm believer that most, not all, but most in Business could give a shit anymore. Customer service went by the wayside the same as gas station attendants have. Sorry to hear all that Dipper!

 

[buckvelvet]

Yikes! I've had some business with Cummins and they seem nice but thats during the ordering process, never contacted them post purchase with a problem. Bummer dipper.

 

[dipper]

I'm only out $12, I'm not gonna even go through the hassle of dealing with them again next spring. I would really feel sorry for a guy out a dozen trees at $30 a pop, or something.
I know there is a lot of love for this company, especially guys buying a dozen trees or so. I'm into grafting and getting set up to propagate my out rootstock. If I was a non grafter, just looking for a half dozen trees, I'd stick to a local nursery, may of which offer a year warranty.
Especially after seeing his demeanor towards your average hobby grower. That's what pisses me off!

 

[CrazyEd]

That sucks dipper. Pears are tough graft in my experience, much more difficult than apples. I haven't had good luck grafting pears 2 years in a row now. the B.118 rootstocks i got from Cummin's looked like a broom you could sweep the floor with, the pears were very different, just a few little roots. I believe that's just the difference between the two though.

 

[dipper]

Surprisingly Ed all my pear grafts stuck except those 4. I don't have the same batting average with apples.

 

[Rally1148]

Sorry you were disappointed with the service dipper...but its what I had guessed would happen. Online nurseries generally operate the way you found out Cummins operates. One year I had to go round and round with Charlie Morse (Morse Nursery) after every Cortland apple tree I purchased in one of his 3 variety package died. All the other trees of both varieties did well, all were planted in the same manner, all received window screening and welded wire cages. I don't know what was wrong with them, but something obviously was. After a number of phone conversations and some "hinting" on my part that a negative review on every online forum I could find may not be in his best interest...he agreed to send me replacement trees the following spring. It took a few more phone calls that spring to get the trees, but I got them. They weren't in roottrappers like they were supposed to be (bareroot), but they did live. I'll still never do business with Morse again

When I was on a search for some hazelnuts for sprouting, he said it'd be $50 for 10 of them.... He's the BOB version of a nursery.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I have to agree about Morse. Once and done for me. That was 2 years ago. I can't complain about Cummins, though. MM-111 and B-118 rootstocks were hearty with lots of roots. No problem with them ( rootstocks ) or the trees I got from them for the last couple years. I lost one tree that came from them and I believe it was because the roots got too dry while planting all the others. Maybe soil type makes a difference, too. Our soil at camp is heavier clay-ish loam that stays moist for a while once watered.

I never had any attitude from anyone at Cummins, SLN, or ACN. Those are the 3 nurseries I've dealt with - no more Morse !!!

 

[deepsleep]

None of these guys are getting rich off of deer managers! On the other hand, they do make a little extra Christmas money off of us, I'm sure, and should treat us the way they do any other customer. In Steve's defense, I'm sure he gets some pretty ridiculous calls, and also has bad days like the rest of us. If you look over the last several years, a great many of us have bought trees from Cummins, and I haven't seen any similar complaints from anyone else. I'm willing to give him a break based on that. On the other hand, I have never been overly impressed with their trees. Adequate, and grow fine, but not like the trees I've gotten from ACN or Grandpa's. The nice thing is they have a huge selection on multiple rootstock, and allow very early ordering. They also have a nice volume discount. All this being said, it sure would have been easier to send you 4 rootstock for free next year!

 

[CrazyEd]

Cummin's is tough to beat if you want trees on B.118 rootstock. They have the largest selection by far. Me personally, i've never had an issue with their trees or their service.

 

[Rally1148]

Cummin's is tough to beat if you want trees on B.118 rootstock. They have the largest selection by far. Me personally, i've never had an issue with their trees or their service.

Although I ended up just grafting my trees this year, rather than replacing them, when I was doing my research in the fall/winter I'd have to say that I agree on the number of varieties on B118. I think Cummins has A LOT of varieties that can be somewhat hard to find in other places. That being said, I'd 100% order from Grandpa's before I do Cummins, if for nothing else than it is a Michigan outfit.

Again, I've never bought from either of them, and I don't have anything negative towards either one, mainly just Morse. I think they just lie to their customers on how and where their trees will perform. Last time I checked, they listed ROD as doing well on dry soil. I planted some on some droughty soil (July-August), and I've mulched them with 4 inches of chips and leaves, but I think that if I didn't do that they'd be toast. If I'm going to pay a premium price I'd rather pay $5.00 for a 1 gallon elderberry that has been collected from Michigan seed. I also don't like how Morse doesn't really validate where they get their seeds. The native nursery owner that I spoke to about DCO's said that there was only one other nursery in Michigan that sold Michigan genotype DCO's and it wasn't Morse... which makes me very skeptical about what Morse is actually selling. If I needed to go to a larger nursery in Michigan, that wasn't native genotypes, I'd go for Coldstream or Oikos hands down. In general, mainly smaller nurseries that focus on local genotypes will be getting my money.

 

[DLH]

If you graft in any kind of volume you should go through williamette nursery that's where I got my rootstock this year granted my wife wasn't too happy with the 100 apple trees I now have but I'm always seeking a deal even if it cost me more money I know that's some stupid logic. I ordered 100 b118 and 50 OHx97 and it was 263 dollars shipped to my door it would have been less but the pear stock was more expensive (they don't propagate their own pear). I believe cummins buy their rootstock by the 10s of thousand from nurseries out west and re sell them. The best thing about cummins is they do sell in small quantities. The pears you had with poor roots may be due to them being started as cuttings. Williamette is great to deal with too they are very friendly.

 

[sandbur]

I am a firm believer that most, not all, but most in Business could give a shit anymore. Customer service went by the wayside the same as gas station attendants have. Sorry to hear all that Dipper!

I hear about a guy from Mora, Mn. that runs a farm service business, and people are happy with him.

 

[chickenlittle]

If you graft in any kind of volume you should go through williamette nursery...Williamette is great to deal with too they are very friendly.

I'll add that I ordered a 100 P.18 regrades (2nds) from Treco. 100 was the minimum order and those were about $145 delivered. They were nice to deal with on the phone and had a wide selection of varieties and caliper to choose from. Some of the regrades I got weren't that straight and there were less roots than the G.11 and B.118 I got from Cummins. A dozen or so of the P.18 had very few roots. Even so, I felt I got good stuff to work with. I cannot imagine buying more than a handful of anything again. I had trouble figuring out what to do with all of them once I got them. A little advance planning and partnering with some others would have helped but it was an impulse buy...

 

[dipper]

By me, all of the nurseries have one year warranties on their products. That first year is crucial imo. That warranty is a huge perk, even if the price doesn't exactly compare to cummins.
The thing is, these rootstocks didn't even swell a bud. I could cut a dormant branch, lay the branch on my counter and at least get a bud to swell. that prick didn't even care to hear it. He puffed out his status as a superior grower, and attacked the no body. That's what pisses me off. He's got 0 trust and 0 respect for hobby growers like us. Buyer beware, just like many insurance companies, they are great a taking your money, put attitudes change at claim time.

 

[2ndHand]

Cummin's is tough to beat if you want trees on B.118 rootstock. They have the largest selection by far. Me personally, i've never had an issue with their trees or their service.

I agree with Ed - I've bought about 70 trees and 50 root stock over the last couple of years from Cummins and have found their service to be exceptional!

 

[John-W-WI]

Wow.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

:mad:

By me, all of the nurseries have one year warranties on their products. That first year is crucial imo. That warranty is a huge perk, even if the price doesn't exactly compare to cummins.
The thing is, these rootstocks didn't even swell a bud. I could cut a dormant branch, lay the branch on my counter and at least get a bud to swell. that prick didn't even care to hear it. He puffed out his status as a superior grower, and attacked the no body. That's what pisses me off. He's got 0 trust and 0 respect for hobby growers like us. Buyer beware, just like many insurance companies, they are great a taking your money, put attitudes change at claim time.

I find Steve to be the exact opposite You won't find a more interesting guy and a guy more than willing to share his knowledge with hobbyists and wildlife growers. I have met him a number of times and if he didn't say his name was Steve I would have thought he was a worker (well he is) in the nursery. The last time I was there picking up my rootstocks he was giving some Syracuse U students some grafting demo and he invited me to join and I did for over 30 minutes. That 30 minutes gave me a great start in my now 2 year grafting career lol. Maybe you just got in a bad moment or your reaction set him off. Who knows. But I am not afraid to deal with Cummins in the future based on your comments here but I respect your opinion and admire you for sticking to your guns

 

[Bowsnbucks]

X2 with Aero. I've talked with Steve on a number of occasions by phone and by e-mail. Any time I had a question about trees, rootstocks, DR of different varieties, grafting - he was always very helpful. Same with Alan or Tino at Cummins. I'm not shooting down Dipper's complaint, but I have no qualms about ordering from Cummins again. They've done a great job by me.

 

[buckvelvet]

The newest member to this forum is Steve Cummins. Just say'n....