Crabapples, pears and apples

[g squared 23]

I have a couple of questions for the forum. I'm just getting into fruit trees at my own farm; I started at my in-laws' with apples that I loved to eat the most: pink lady. Man I love those things. Yes there are some deer around that place, but they were more for me to eat. After they were in the ground, I found out that they are not disease resistant at all, in fact quite the opposite. I mixed in a couple of other trees as well (pecan & pear), and not shockingly, the pear (moonglow and another) is the only one that has grown well at all.

I am wanting to continue to add trees, but would like to focus on more rigorous growers with disease resistance. This spring I planted the high resistance package from Stark Bros (freedom, liberty, jonafree, macafree) at my own farm.

I've read that crabapples can be a huge part of a fruit tree program with the added benefit of pollinating apple trees. I've also read that pears are generally more disease resistant and require less work than apples. So...

My questions are:

1. What are the best crabapples for deer/wildlife? THE best?
2. What is the cornerstone of your fruit tree program? Should I really be focusing on pears more than apples?

 

[Bc4abc]

I personally am transitioning away from apple trees, i find them to just be way too high maintenance for my tastes....my fruit tree focus now is on pears and persimmon....little to no maintenance and they are much more disease resistant. between the grafting, pruning, spraying, blight, ACR and other issues....apples are just too much to deal with. that being said I do have about 15 apple trees on my place and i'm not getting rid of them, just not adding anymore.

I'm also focused on chestnut trees right now which i believe long term will be a great draw for my deer and bear...again a tree that has less maintenance than apples.

 

[Neahawg]

Crabs I've seen people plant include dolgo, hewe's, Golden hornet, Kerr, chestnut, among several wild varieties people trade on the board such as "monster" and "cherry bomb".

Apples I've seen billed as disease resistant include Arkansas Black, pricilla, liberty, freedom, galarina, and gold rush.

As for pears I've had good luck with the wildlife group pears and they are more maintenance free.

Persimmons are another good choice and easier to graft yourself. Chestnuts are a good tree that escapes most frost as they bloom very late. In my experience Chinese are much more tolerant of drought when compared to hybrids such as Dunstan.

 

[Redarrow]

Same here. I have a keifer pear and bought a couple varietys of pear from oikos in Michigan for deer. Also added persimmon and chestnuts to the mix.

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

 

[Bowsnbucks]

At my camp, we have been planting many apples and crabs the last 5 years and have had little disease problems with them. But we picked the most disease - resistant varieties available. And we're lucky to have no red cedars anywhere near the camp, so we have no CAR problems. ( A member of the juniper family - as red cedars are - must be available to be the alternate host for the CAR fungus to thrive and survive. ) No junipers - no CAR.

The most widely recognized DR apples are Liberty, Enterprise, Goldrush ( although Goldrush can get CAR to some degree - it may or may not affect fruit ), Galarina, Sundance, Crimson Topaz, Priscilla, Wolf River, Winecrisp, & Freedom for deer or organic type orchards.

In my experience, crab apples are just tougher trees all the way around. There are early, mid-season, and later varieties - just like apples. Dolgo is probably the most cold-hardy of the easily available crabs. Chestnut crab is reported to be a very good deer crab and eater, too. My camp has several of both of those crabs, plus Trailman, Hyslop, Centennial, All-Winter-Hangover, Violi's, Nova Scotia, Whitney, Winter Wildlife, Centurion, and Kerr ( an apple/crab cross ).

We also have 3 pear trees - 2 Kieffer and 1 Morse hybrid pear. No problems so far with the pears, but they are susceptible to fireblight. FB can kill trees and is a bacterial infection. If our pear trees get FB - we'll cut them down and BURN them to avoid spreading to apples and crabs.

All the apples and crabs I mentioned are edible for people, with the exception of Hyslop, because it is so dry and grainy when it turns dark red and looks delicious. Centurion is really too small to be worth eating.

If I was to pick only a few apples and crabs to plant for wildlife, they would be: Liberty, Enterprise, Goldrush, & Galarina for apples - and Dolgo, Chestnut, All-Winter-Hangover, Winter Wildlife and Kerr for crabs.

 

[yoderjac]

I have a couple of questions for the forum. I'm just getting into fruit trees at my own farm; I started at my in-laws' with apples that I loved to eat the most: pink lady. Man I love those things. Yes there are some deer around that place, but they were more for me to eat. After they were in the ground, I found out that they are not disease resistant at all, in fact quite the opposite. I mixed in a couple of other trees as well (pecan & pear), and not shockingly, the pear (moonglow and another) is the only one that has grown well at all.

I am wanting to continue to add trees, but would like to focus on more rigorous growers with disease resistance. This spring I planted the high resistance package from Stark Bros (freedom, liberty, jonafree, macafree) at my own farm.

I've read that crabapples can be a huge part of a fruit tree program with the added benefit of pollinating apple trees. I've also read that pears are generally more disease resistant and require less work than apples. So...

My questions are:

1. What are the best crabapples for deer/wildlife? THE best?
2. What is the cornerstone of your fruit tree program? Should I really be focusing on pears more than apples?

I think the answer to #1 may depend on your location. For #2, the cornerstone of my fruit tree program is persimmons. They grow natively on my land and bark grafting scions to established native trees in the 1" to 5" diameter range can produce fruit in the third leaf at a very low cost. Persimmons are very low maintenance once the graft has taken. No spraying or fertilization or pruning is necessary for good fruit production. By selecting a mix of scions from named varieties and native trees with known drop times from other locations, I can have persimmons dropping over a very wide time frame.

For me, apples were very low on my list because of maintenance. I planted chestnuts, Allegheny chinquapins, DCO, and some pears before starting with apples. I'm just now (within the last few years) beginning to bring apples into my program. I'm focusing on crabapples and a few disease resistant varieties of domestic apples. I'm also growing crabapples from seed and using them as rootstock but leaving some original branches.

What works best can largely depend on your location. I have persimmons and Allegheny chinquapins growing naturally on my property. The best bang for the buck for me has been to use native trees first.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[H20fwler]

For deer pears are easier to raise and deer seem to eat them over apples. That being said I still like growing apple trees even if they are a little more maintenance.

For apples the varieties mentioned; Liberty, Enterprise, Arkansas Black, Galarina and Freedom are an excellent start for a wildlife orchard and are good for DR...have been reading lots of good reviews on Franklin too.
For crabapples; Chestnut, Dolgo, Whitney and Golden Hornet are very good DR crabs and great pollinators. I also like the crabapples from Northern Whitetail Crabs out of PA.

I probably have a dozen or more different varieties of pear trees out, my favorites are Keiffer, Moonglow and Korean Giant (Olympic) and about anything from Wildlife Group. I have also had luck with a little less DR like Bartlett and Ayers that have been heavy producers.

My goal is like most on here, I want apples&pears dropping from the end of August into early January if at all possible.

I'm also a big fan of Chestnut trees, Dunstan's are great but the Chinese seem easier to raise....and hazelnuts are also a very good addition for wildlife and very easy to raise.

 

[chickenlittle]

What are your goals for the trees? General feed or attraction? Desired months for production/attraction?

There is not a best apple, crab, or pear. Or even one best type of fruit or nut. Depending on the location and goal, some will work well and some will not. Planting a variety that address the goal helps make you achieve the goal each year.

As for crabs, they vary in size and ripening times. You can get ones that are done by the end of August. Or ripen later. Or hold fruit all winter long. What do you want?

 

[g squared 23]

What are your goals for the trees? General feed or attraction? Desired months for production/attraction?

There is not a best apple, crab, or pear. Or even one best type of fruit or nut. Depending on the location and goal, some will work well and some will not. Planting a variety that address the goal helps make you achieve the goal each year.

As for crabs, they vary in size and ripening times. You can get ones that are done by the end of August. Or ripen later. Or hold fruit all winter long. What do you want?

Great question. In general I'm looking to fill the November to January+ period as food gets pretty scarce for the herd at that point. Ideally they are around for attraction purposes, or at least to keep the deer close (off the neighbors).

 

[yoderjac]

Great question. In general I'm looking to fill the November to January+ period as food gets pretty scarce for the herd at that point. Ideally they are around for attraction purposes, or at least to keep the deer close (off the neighbors).

How big is your place and how big are neighboring properties?

 

[g squared 23]

How big is your place and how big are neighboring properties?

We have 66 in a "neighborhood" surrounded by lots of other similarly sized parcels that recieve a moderate to heavy amount of pressure. They don't seem to add a lot of improvements, they just hunt it hard.

 

[yoderjac]

We have 66 in a "neighborhood" surrounded by lots of other similarly sized parcels that recieve a moderate to heavy amount of pressure. They don't seem to add a lot of improvements, they just hunt it hard.

Nothing you can plant will keep deer off your neighbors properties. The home range of a deer varies with habitat, but 1,000 acres is a reasonable average. Deer clearly spend more time in some areas of their home range than others, but your place is less than 7% of a typical home range.

Attraction is a reasonable goal, but keeping deer off neighboring properties is not. Most fruit and nut trees are good for attracting deer to a specific spot during a narrow period. Most require sun to produce and that typically means open. To increase the amount of time deer spend in an area, cover is a bigger driver. Thick cover that has minimal human disturbance.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

Question 1: You've been given some great advice already. I have about all of those already mentioned growing now, except for about 3 of those varieties. This year I also topworked some apples I wasn't pleased with, using some wild apple scions from another state that someone sent to me. I also added several of the Northern Whitetail Crab trees this spring. I don't know how they will end up being here in the long run, but I have never seen apple trees grow so fast and look as good as these. The leaves are virtually spotless, and I'm covered with Eastern Red Cedar. They are advertised as being fireblight resistant, but I won't see that until they start flowering.

Question 2: I'm big on pears if you get the right ones. I have some large pear trees, and two varieties that I have never seen the first hint of FB on are Moonglow and Ayers. I've seen a small amount on Kieffer, but not bad at all. I have several Wildlife Group pears that are beginning to make fruit, and I love them all. I also have over 30 Chinese Chestnuts making nuts at this time. I have native persimmons that produce, but the ones I set are still too young except for 3 trees that started fruiting last year. The cornerstone for me is DIVERSITY. A bad year for one species may be a good year for another. For instance, last year was a bumper crop of pears with few apples - this year is just the opposite. Mix it up using DR varieties in whatever species you are planting, and you will be fine.

 

[g squared 23]

Nothing you can plant will keep deer off your neighbors properties. The home range of a deer varies with habitat, but 1,000 acres is a reasonable average. Deer clearly spend more time in some areas of their home range than others, but your place is less than 7% of a typical home range.

Attraction is a reasonable goal, but keeping deer off neighboring properties is not. Most fruit and nut trees are good for attracting deer to a specific spot during a narrow period. Most require sun to produce and that typically means open. To increase the amount of time deer spend in an area, cover is a bigger driver. Thick cover that has minimal human disturbance.

Thanks,

Jack

I appreciate the dose of reality, and I have no dreams of granduer nor do I think I can stack huge bucks or loads of deer on our property. We had 2 acres of standing crops in an isolated field the last 2 years, and that is the bees's knees as far as attraction goes. With no other game in town, we were able to pull a significant number of deer from neighboring properties in January when all the other hunters had tagged out or given up. Fruit/nut trees will (hopefully) make the rest of the place as habitable and wildlife friendly as our honeyhole.

Also most of our property is thick cover. I'm simply trying to make what open area we have better; mostly asking for input on what has and hasn't been successful for people, especially what to avoid. I'm planning on enjoying the literal fruits of my labor as well, but as an absentee landowner, I won't be around to spray or prune every week.

 

[Neahawg]

I think we all know we can't keep deer on our property exclusively,(unless you have 1000s of acres), but no reason why your efforts can't hold them a little longer to increase your odds of success.

 

[yoderjac]

I think we all know we can't keep deer on our property exclusively,(unless you have 1000s of acres), but no reason why your efforts can't hold them a little longer to increase your odds of success.

Absolutely. My point was that a few fruit trees tends to attract deer but not hold them. It is the cover and sanctuary part of the equation that holds them. Food can be part of holding deer, but is usually accomplished by ensuring quality foods are available during stress periods when other foods become scarce.

Just as an example, we are located in an area where our food plots are the only crops within about 3 miles. When we shoot does in the fall, it creates holes in the social structure. Summer is our major stress period when quality native foods become scarce and deer begin to range further to find foods. Deer come hit our soybean food plots in the summer. Before we worked on the cover aspect, those deer would return to their core home range in the fall when quality food becomes more plentiful. Since we have improved cover, deer began changing their core area and filling the holes in the social structure. The beans would attract the deer, but it was the rest of the habitat equation that we needed to get them to spend more time on our place.

We have used that experience in developing our mast tree strategy. Rather than focusing on attraction, we are focusing on using permaculture to feed deer. Having quality mast available in sufficient volume dropping over a long period we hope is a lower maintenance approach to fill a larger part of the food side of the equation.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[yoderjac]

I appreciate the dose of reality, and I have no dreams of granduer nor do I think I can stack huge bucks or loads of deer on our property. We had 2 acres of standing crops in an isolated field the last 2 years, and that is the bees's knees as far as attraction goes. With no other game in town, we were able to pull a significant number of deer from neighboring properties in January when all the other hunters had tagged out or given up. Fruit/nut trees will (hopefully) make the rest of the place as habitable and wildlife friendly as our honeyhole.

Also most of our property is thick cover. I'm simply trying to make what open area we have better; mostly asking for input on what has and hasn't been successful for people, especially what to avoid. I'm planning on enjoying the literal fruits of my labor as well, but as an absentee landowner, I won't be around to spray or prune every week.

If you are looking for apples and pears, I'm just beginning to add those, so others can speak better to the characteristics they find most beneficial. Just keep in mind that there are regional considerations.

Sounds like you have a great place!

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Native nailed the key points in post # 13. DIVERSITY is a key that all of us can gain from. Like Native said, a bad year for one or 2 things may be a great year for the others. Same thing with a disease that may strike - diversity of DR types of plantings guards against a total wipe-out of your crop. Quicker-bearing nut trees, such as blight-resistant Chinese chestnuts just puts more ammo in your arsenal of plantings.

Having some thick cover on your place is ALWAYS a good thing !! If it only gives deer a place to hide while waiting out a disturbance before they come back to feed on your apples, crabs, or food plots - that's a good thing.

If we can have a year-round supply of easy-to-get food that brings in deer and keeps them hanging around, plus enough cover to make them feel safe while using those food supplies - that's the goal of most of us on here.

Later-bearing apple trees good for deer are: Enterprise, Goldrush, Galarina, Arkansas Black, Yates, Kerr, and more newly publicized Franklin. The good gents on here may have others to add to that list of late-bearers.

 

[g squared 23]

Thanks for all the replies and wisdom. I'm trying to put together a game plan for the years going forward. Obviously none of us have the time or resources to do everything all at once.

My next question would be, if you were to start your management efforts over from scratch, what would take priority? Oak plantings because they take the longest? Providing the maximum amount of security cover assuming it's lacking? Improving native browse? Are fruit and nut trees a lower priority? Assume there are equal "holes" in a property's "assets".

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks for all the replies and wisdom. I'm trying to put together a game plan for the years going forward. Obviously none of us have the time or resources to do everything all at once.

My next question would be, if you were to start your management efforts over from scratch, what would take priority? Oak plantings because they take the longest? Providing the maximum amount of security cover assuming it's lacking? Improving native browse? Are fruit and nut trees a lower priority? Assume there are equal "holes" in a property's "assets".

You can have deer around without having a lot of the things you mentioned - except for cover. Cover is an essential to having them on your property at the time you will be hunting them (daylight).

Sometimes you can kill two birds with one stone - you might find a way to improve cover and native browse at the same time - by planting shrubs that will do both jobs.

I have an oak tree in my yard that deer wear out every year at night. Sometimes I will come home late at night and 10 deer will run off. But, it would be lonesome setting there during daylight waiting for one to come. They will be where the cover is.

Best wishes.