Why no dwarfs?

[Catscratch]

Why don't I hear or see much about dwarf fruit trees for wildlife?

 

[j-bird]

I plant semi-dwarf - and I will explain why, even though I may be entirely wrong.

Dwarf trees don't get big enough. I worried about them wanting to branch too low to the ground and having issue with the deer browsing them to death while having enough tree out of the reach of the deer to provide fruit. I was concerned that I would have to heave fencing to protect the tree and then the fruit would remain out of reach of the deer - which goes against the entire reason for planting them in the first place. Maybe I'm all wet with my reasoning, but I have been real happy with the size of my semi-dwarf selection thus far. I can have my lowest branch at 5 feet off the ground and still have plenty of tree to grow fruit. I can protect the truck with a very narrow cage now and let the fruit fall to the ground beyond the cage for the deer. Yes the deer may still get a branch or two, put from what I have seen thus far semi-dwarf it the perfect size for my needs. I'm not saying this is the only way or that any of this is right, it was my thinking on the matter and what has worked fro me thus far.

 

[Catscratch]

Works for me. Don't want deer eating the tree so get one that is taller. Are there any dwarf pears? Pears seem to grow straight up, wouldn't take much for them to get out of reach...

 

[wiscwhip]

The "dwarfing" effect is mostly caused by the rootstocks, maybe look into the PyroDwarf?

http://www.orangepippintrees.co.uk/articles/rootstocks-for-pears

 

[j-bird]

Works for me. Don't want deer eating the tree so get one that is taller. Are there any dwarf pears? Pears seem to grow straight up, wouldn't take much for them to get out of reach...

Now I'm going to more than likely say something stupid......as I understand it the size of your tree is based on the root stock used. The species of pear you want should be able to be a dwarf of otherwise as long as you can find someone or do it yourself to get the combination you want. Wisc posted while I was typing....so now I don't fell so dumb. The species you select has more to do with fruit drop time, size, shape and those things. I have ZERO history with pears - so I can't help you in that aspect.

 

[wklman]

A lot of the dwarfs aren't as cold hardy as the taller rootstocks either. For guys like me in northern mn that plays into it as well.

 

[Turkey Creek]

Why don't I hear or see much about dwarf fruit trees for wildlife?

Not trying to sound obnoxious, but what would be the benefit of a dwarf fruit tree for wildlife purposes? I think the answer to that question would answer your own question.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

For me, it was bears. I want the biggest strongest trees possible to have the possibility that when a bear does get past my fence, maybe the tree wont be completely destroyed.

 

[Catscratch]

Not trying to sound obnoxious, but what would be the benefit of a dwarf fruit tree for wildlife purposes? I think the answer to that question would answer your own question.

Not obnoxious at all.

I was thinking dwarf would produce quicker (less yrs to wait for fruit), allow more varieties to be tried (I'm short on space that I can take care of trees, and I'm a noob with fruit so I don't exactly know what varieties are going to turn into my favorites for; disease resistance, taste, drop date, reliability, etc.), and a shortened life span is still a long time in terms of trees. In 15yrs I can start cutting out the dead trees and replacing them with one's I like.

To sum it up: I was thinking dwarfs would give me less wait time, more varieties, and still a relative long term fruit producer. Of course I've been wrong before :)

PyroDwarf was looking great until I got to fireblight resistance. I will dig deeper though!

 

[Turkey Creek]

I figured your answer would be precociousness, but all the downsides to a dwarf out way that one benefit. Solution to your problem is to start top working some varieties onto individual limbs in a "established" tree. Those grafted limbs will start producing in as little as 2-3 years. I will throw a dwarf into your order free of charge and you do a little side by side comparison for us and after 5 years tell us which you would prefer growing!:)

 

[cavey]

"To sum it up: I was thinking dwarfs would give me less wait time, more varieties, and still a relative long term fruit producer. Of course I've been wrong before"...

You would be right on all the above but as TC stated - in the big picture there are more disadvantages to dwarfs... and one other thought; unless you plan to cage your trees for eternity the browse pressure (browse line) of a deer standing on its hind legs doesn't leave you with a lot of tree left on some of the smaller dwarfed trees - even when they do reach maturity...

anytime you plant a fruit tree - you should have done it five years before the day you did do it. Go standard, be patient - time flies by fast enough as it is...

-- Oops I see someone also mentioned browsing pressure... for me it is also the sheer volume of fruit I get from a bigger standard tree.. I would rather tend/care for 1 standard tree than 3 or 4 dwarfs for the same amount of soft mast produced.

 

[Catscratch]

I'm that predicable! Top working is a scary thing to me as I haven't done it before, but I should start trying. So adding a scion to a growing tree will give quicker fruit? or will it give me the variety that I want to experiment with? Probably both?
I'll certainly take a dwarf to experiment with but that isn't needed. Did buckdeer1 get with you? I let him know that he could finish off my shipping box. Don't add a dwarf in there if it takes space he could use.
Thanks!

 

[chickenlittle]

I think the question is how dwarf, how you will protect it, and can/will you water it in dry spells. If it can survive drought, I think you can cage them in a line so they are economically protected while allowing access to dropped apples. Look at first post of my Project W thread and envision a bunch of dwarf trees on 3 to 4 ft spacing. Or use columnar trees as I am working toward.

I know Aerospace Farmer likes his dwarf trees and wishes he had more of those instead of semidwarf trees.

 

[Catscratch]

Oh man, columnar trees open another can of worms!
I don't particularly like buying fence and making cages... until I'm done and then they aren't so bad. Having to build better cages or fence isn't on my favorite "to do" list. Finding a way to keep low branches away from deer and allowing them access to dropped apples at the same time doesn't sound low maintenance. I suppose columnar trees could use fence close enough to the tree that apples would probably fall outside of the fence, or at least role there.

 

[Turkey Creek]

I'm that predicable! Top working is a scary thing to me as I haven't done it before, but I should start trying. So adding a scion to a growing tree will give quicker fruit? or will it give me the variety that I want to experiment with? Probably both?
I'll certainly take a dwarf to experiment with but that isn't needed. Did buckdeer1 get with you? I let him know that he could finish off my shipping box. Don't add a dwarf in there if it takes space he could use.
Thanks!

By "established" I should have put currently producing fruit. However, yes in the sense that the first "X" number of years depending on root stock are the years it takes to go from a full vegetative state to at least partial fruit bearing. Once that tree begins fruiting then your grafted scion no longer has to wait for that tree to get to that age. Yes the limb grafted scion will grow into whatever variety the scion is. Lots of people with Franken trees (multiple, sometimes dozens of different varieties grafted onto the same tree). Yes buckdeer1 has been in touch.

 

[Catscratch]

Does the scion wood have to be a certain age before it will produce or does it take orders from the rootstock? Lets say that I ask for scions from "x" variety of tree to put on my tree that is already producing. Someone sends me scions from a 2yr old. Will it produce within 2 or 3 years of grafting or will it need more time. I don't suppose many people cut up young trees to give scion wood away anyhow...

 

[Turkey Creek]

Does the scion wood have to be a certain age before it will produce or does it take orders from the rootstock? Lets say that I ask for scions from "x" variety of tree to put on my tree that is already producing. Someone sends me scions from a 2yr old. Will it produce within 2 or 3 years of grafting or will it need more time. I don't suppose many people cut up young trees to give scion wood away anyhow...

Age of the tree the scion came from is not relevant as a scion is typically wood that was produced during last years growing season. Typically apples are formed on wood that is 2 years old and older. Depending on the variety you graft onto that producing tree you could see it produce apples in year 2 or 3, depending on growth of the scion, weather, and variety.

 

[H20fwler]

I plant standard and semi-standard size fruit trees because I have lots of room for them, they are bigger so hypothetically should bare more fruit and they wont get browsed as hard.

 

[Maya]

You want quick, buy trees on B118 rootstock. These Galarina's are on there 3rd leaf and are big enough to have a pretty decent first crop. They will also end up being around 20'............... Something else about dwarfs, they will likely need support their entire life.

 

[Catscratch]

That is a hell of a nice tree. Seems big for only 3rd leaf.
It pretty cool that I can get on here and find this stuff out. Not many apples around here so asking face to face doesn't really work. Learning stuff all the time!

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