Why do wild crab or larger wild apples predominate?
- Thread starter sandbur
- Start date
I'd think the sheer volume of seed produced by a crabapple over a standard apple would allow them to predominate in most areas. On the same token, if a seed from a standard apple was allowed to establish it is high probability it was pollinated by a crab. When I've ever found what I consider a Wild Apple, it's always more of an Apple Crab. I don't recall ever finding a wild tree with standard sized fruit.
SE Michigan 6A/5B
SE Michigan 6A/5B
sandbur
5 year old buck +
What is the natural soil pH in your area? Heavy or light/ thin soils?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Where I live it is heavy clay and I'm unsure of natural pH. My farm 30 miles away is a very light sandy loam, typically in mid 5s.
Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
Wild crabs have proven hardy rootstocks. Seeds from regular apples have random roots and may not be good survivors.I posted this on a smaller deer hunting forum and am looking for a wider range of opinions. I see 95% wild crabs in my area. Perhaps this discussion could lead to better choices for apple tree plantings in each area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
cavey
5 year old buck +
I think it has to be genetics - "crabbing out" of seedlings must be just a dominant thing - proof that as they say they make great pollinators - apples like a wolf river must be a super rare chance happening. You just do not see many wild apple trees compared to crabs and even if you do see an "apple" they tend to be on the smaller size.
cavey
5 year old buck +
Im guessing they also are the first to get pulled down and damaged at a younger age when fruiting and have even less survivability...
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Do crabs tend to have more of a ‘bushy’ type growth with closer limb structure? If so they might survive better in areas exposed to winter sunscauld.
Trees with larger apples might??? Have a limb structure that is more exposed and would have a better chance of survival where there are hills to reduce/temper sunscauld.
Lots of guessing in the above comments.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trees with larger apples might??? Have a limb structure that is more exposed and would have a better chance of survival where there are hills to reduce/temper sunscauld.
Lots of guessing in the above comments.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
See a fair amount of fruit trees in ditches around farm homesteads that are more apple sized than crabs. Is that the apple core out car window/from tractor theory or also where power lines and bird perches tend to be. Probably both.
On the other hand there is a single large pear tree in an old homestead that grows "normal" size pears so assume the mother tree to at least 1/2 doz others that are definitely more wild looking and all have rather small pears within a mile or so. Some of the pears like Kieffer or Bartlett are self fertile so assume that was the start for the neighborhood.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
In regards to sunscald, many of the wild trees seem to have multiple stems or lotta branching starting down low so not as much a concern? These trees have also been around a long time so deer numbers were a lot lower back when they were getting started.
rocksnstumps
5 year old buck +
Last comment, the township likes to spray the crap outta trees and shrubs too close to the road but they leave the apples alone. Must be a softy running their sprayer program or a deer nut
Prof.Kent
5 year old buck +
Usually not pruned as much either. But yes, I think they tend to be bushier with lots of smaller branches. They also tend to sprout from the roots.
cavey
5 year old buck +
I kind of think crabs tend to have scalier bark and more brittle pointy arsss thorn like spurs too, which I notice when pruning crabs. I tend to get more cut up / scratched up doing them versus when I prune my "apple" trees.
Its always those apple trees with smooth soft trunks/bark that get girdled first. Once the trees get that older rough bark the voles and mice tend to leave them alone. I was always going to try and lightly spray undercoating on the trunks and toss course sand onto it before it dries to see if that would work as bark protection.
sandbur
5 year old buck +
I had to smile at your comments with sand in the bark. When I cut eastern red cedar on my place, sparks can fly from sand in the bark. I live on the east edge of the Anoka Sand Plain.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
sandbur
5 year old buck +
Some recent thoughts on this after sharing messages with a deer tree nursery guy.
Looking at the above comments, do others see wild crabs predominating in prairie or exposed environments versus more wild apples in hilly or less exposed locations?
I suspect the exposed or prairie areas have more ambient temperature swings in fall, winter, spring and the more dense growth around the central or multi leaders of crabs helps protect them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Looking at the above comments, do others see wild crabs predominating in prairie or exposed environments versus more wild apples in hilly or less exposed locations?
I suspect the exposed or prairie areas have more ambient temperature swings in fall, winter, spring and the more dense growth around the central or multi leaders of crabs helps protect them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
chummer
5 year old buck +
Funny. They ran a mulcher under our power lines this summer. They went to painstaking efforts to avoid the few apple trees. Not sure how they would have even seen them and not just mulched them. No such luck on the spruce i had growing for a screen.
bigboreblr
5 year old buck +
MY deer herd got whacked with EHD last sept. However, in 2018 or so, I bought toringo crabapple from the NYSDEC nursery. They stopped selling it because it was too agressive. They were hesitant to say invasive.
I do not cage my toringo crabapples and they're in wide open. The tops get nibble a touch, but nothing bad compared to other uncaged things I have tried to grow. Browse palatibility has alot to do with it.
As per my hunting club president, trees ok, cages no. MY hunting lease company manager is very agreeable with hunters. Food plots, hunting shack excluded as outbuildings, trails, folks going a bit overboard on shooting lanes, etc.
There's a 2 edge sword with trees. Well protected young trees are not protected from rabbits and mice in thickets. I almost think a tree who can grow out in the open has a better chance in some cases.
I do not cage my toringo crabapples and they're in wide open. The tops get nibble a touch, but nothing bad compared to other uncaged things I have tried to grow. Browse palatibility has alot to do with it.
As per my hunting club president, trees ok, cages no. MY hunting lease company manager is very agreeable with hunters. Food plots, hunting shack excluded as outbuildings, trails, folks going a bit overboard on shooting lanes, etc.
There's a 2 edge sword with trees. Well protected young trees are not protected from rabbits and mice in thickets. I almost think a tree who can grow out in the open has a better chance in some cases.
Similar threads
