what kind of crab apple?

[Powder]

Can someone help me identify these crab apples? Any thoughts? They were picked in Northern Minnesota. The guy who gave them to me said he's got lots of trees that have these on but he didn't plant them so he doesn't know what kind they are. He said the deer love them!

 

[Powder]

No I didn't. All I really care about is if the deer like them which he's says they do. Are these worth growing?

 

[Powder]

Yeah, I guess you're right. What I was getting was if there were other varieties that would be better, such as Dolgo or Chestnut, etc. Or if they would be self pollinating. For all I know he's got more than one kind out there that is helping pollinate.

 

[Powder]

He said they drop starting now all the way until December. During the muzzleloader hunt he'll go up and shake the trees that have any remaining to get them to fall off.

It would be great if they tasted good but I don't really care. I'm not doing it human consumption.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Powder]

I'm not sure I'm that talented to start grafting just yet!

 

[Rally1148]

I'm not sure I'm that talented to start grafting just yet!

Plant a rootstock. Give it a year or two, and then top work it. I had 100% success on my first try. Don't be intimidated.

Since deer are going to eat every apple, eventually, I would say that whether or not they are worth growing comes down to 2 things.
1. Are they easy to grow. In other words, they have no visible susceptibility to diseases. If they do, and since deer aren't too picky on apples, you're just as well to try a different kind. If they have no signs, it's up to you.
2. Do they drop when you want them to, assuming you'll hunt over them/be hunting when you want them dropping. If they fit that bill, go ahead. If not, then maybe try another one.

 

[Rally1148]

Grafting isn't hard, it just takes some practice. Lots of videos on Youtube that show the process very well.

If you don't want to graft, but want a jump start vs. growing by seed - I'd buy some seedling dolgo, baccata, or ranetka crabs. With some searching, you can usually find some 2-5'ers. Down the road, you can graft to them if you want as Rally stated. Up where you are, I'd avoid any of the clonal rootstocks as I doubt they'd survive.

Even on Antonovka, Poland?Polish (forget the exact name), Ottawa, and vineland? I think Ottawa and vineland are Canadian developments?

 

[Rally1148]

Even on Antonovka, Poland?Polish (forget the exact name), Ottawa, and vineland? I think Ottawa and vineland are Canadian developments?

I suppose you probably couldn't beat a Dolgo rootstock though. Cold hardiness is one of those things I really think is interesting in how they select for it. They've gotten a lot of other traits nailed down, but this seems like it's one of the major ones with pushing the growing zones for trees.

 

[Rally1148]

If the OP can access the Canadian clonal rootstocks, that would be worth a shot. I'd avoid antonovka up there, no idea on the Polish varieties

That said, it would likely be a lot easier to find some seedling dolgo, ranetka, or baccata

I didn't even consider the availability of them. I guess I was thinking in general, without really considering the practicality of it.

 

[chummer]

Am I the only one that has had chestnut crabs die from winter kill? I planted 4 and 3 died their first winter. The last one is my best tree. It is 10' tall with good girth in two years. I planted 8 more this spring before I knew the others were dead, I guess I will know more next spring.
Here is the list of trees I have had die. I have a few -30+ per year. You might want to avoid these if you are only doing a few trees
Chestnut
Liberty
Enterprise
NY Bonkers
Goldrush

No problems
Dolgo
Kerr
Frostbite
Wolf River

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Interesting chart, Stu. ^^^^ Thanks for posting.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I would say Wolf River is fine at -30, we just haven't gotten that cold in the last 25+ yrs here. Back before that in the 1970's oh yeah. I live 30 mins away from Fremont, WI where the tree originally was found. My mom grew up on a farm in Fremont.

 

[yoderjac]

I'm not sure I'm that talented to start grafting just yet!

Sure you are! I would start by growing them from seed for rootstock. You know they are well adapted. If you want to be sure to get the exact fruiting characteristics, once the seedlings are well established, you can get scions from your buddy. Anything that doesn't take, just let it grow out. You may like the fruiting characteristics and even if not, it will provide pollen.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[chummer]

Chestnut crabs are grown into zone 2. -30 shouldn't kill them. There's more to winter hardiness than just temperature, so I don't know why you lost yours. I wouldn't hesitate to plant Chestnut crab in zone 3a

The others you list as being borderline at -30 I agree with. Some growers here would disagree with you on Wolf River being thoroughly winter hardy in 4a however.

A page from Alaskan growers that other northerners may find of some value http://www.apfga.org/resources/research/

That is why I thought they would be a slam dunk. They were termendous growers going into winter, and the one that remains is my best tree. The other strange thing is they are dead dead. No new growth coming up from the roots or the graft. Every other tree I have had die has at least tried to send up new growth. Is it possible I got the wrong root stock and the death occurred in the roots and not the tree?

 

[chummer]

That could certainly be possible. It's also possible they weren't chestnut crabs and mislabeled. What was the weather like going into winter that year, dry? Did you have snow cover when it got cold? Any warm ups followed by below zero weather? Do you have voles and/or pocket gophers? Were apple trees previously growing in the area where the trees died? Any chance glyphosate/herbicide drift got them? Any chance of other herbicide (2-4d, crossbow, etc. ) translocating through the soil?

I guess the bottom line for me is that chestnut crab is widely recognized as one of the most cold hardy apples out there. I wouldn't hesitate to try some again.

Very wet and warm going into winter
We had snow but not our normal 325" I think we ended around 200"
No big swings in temps and only a couple -30's
No voles or gophers
Lots of other apple trees around
No herbicide uses after June
I think I must of got the wrong trees, just doesn't make sense.
I planted 8 more this spring so I guess I will have my answer in a few months.
I should have questioned Cummins on it in the spring. Did not have any luck with them standing by their trees in the past.

 

[sandbur]

That is why I thought they would be a slam dunk. They were termendous growers going into winter, and the one that remains is my best tree. The other strange thing is they are dead dead. No new growth coming up from the roots or the graft. Every other tree I have had die has at least tried to send up new growth. Is it possible I got the wrong root stock and the death occurred in the roots and not the tree?

I have about 15 chestnut crabs in the ground on three different rootstocks. I have no idea what the rootstocks are and have not been able to find out. The oldest tree is about 28 leaf and doing fine. The next 4 trees are about the same age, on a smaller rootstock,and are doing fine. All of these trees came from local nurseries that buy from Baileys. I also purchased another tree from a local nursery (from Baileys) and it is fine.

Ten trees were purchased from Lee Nursery in northern Mn and a few of those suffered dieback last winter. I am not sure why. They are on a very slight north slope. It may have to do with the wet summer we had last year.....probably the rootstock and the location????