Using a Dibble Planting Bar?

[MilkweedManiac]

I ordered and have just received 200 Norway Spruce trees (bareroot, see picture), to be spaced 12x12 as an eventual windbreak|access screen.

I would really like to avoid post hole diggers and augers for this if at all possible. Using the photo below for reference, is the Dibble Bar method a viable option for these? The ground being planted in is soft and moist. From what I understand, I would need to make sure the ground closed back onto the roots firmly after insertion and ensure that the roots aren’t pointing back at me.

Thoughts are appreciated.

 

[Chainsaw]

Yes the Dibble bar works very effectually for that size tree. We bought ours from Forestry-suppliers and it is good quality- Planted 600 in Rocky ground with two people very quickly. Goes much easier with two people. https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/...mi=15922&itemnum=69041&title=JIM-GEM® KBC Bar

 

[MilkweedManiac]

Yes the Dibble bar works very effectually for that size tree. We bought ours from Forestry-suppliers and it is good quality- Planted 600 in Rocky ground with two people very quickly. Goes much easier with two people. https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=15922&itemnum=69041&title=JIM-GEM® KBC Bar

This is quite encouraging news!

I assume your trees are healthy and experienced no ill-effect? Anything I should watch out for? This will be my first time planting with this method.

 

[BlueSpruceOutfitters]

We have a 150 acre Christmas tree farm and replant thousands upon thousands of spruces and pines each year with a dibble bar. It's work but easy and fast once you get into it.

 

[cavey]

Hmmmm, arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg (inside joke)... The dibble bar planting method will work well for planting those... no issues there. Be careful not to "J" root the plants, You can trim the roots on the trees if they are way longer than the tool you are using can create in depth for the hole. 200 trees will go fairly fast so take your time to plant them right making sure you pack the dirt back up against the roots really well (even if you have to stab back in on them one more time a bit further away to ensure a good soil pack - that will avoid the air pockets that injure the roots. Another subtle trick is as you move from one spot to the next... when as you get to the location for the next drop, kick the duff - with you boot, kick the soil surface -- scuffing it free of vegetation/grass, just across the surface.. stab that spot. Might sound stupid but after doing thousands of trees every little bit helps. You'll develop a motion and sail through 200.

and most important, protect the roots from drying out... only pull the one you need out into the air, it only takes seconds to dry and root shock your bare root trees. Keep the roots damp, having a spray bottle with water works great, Im not a fan of buckets filled with water but for keeping the roots wet during planting that will work, it just slows you down and your going to splash water all over your legs.

If you have not ordered the dibble bar dont buy the KBC dibble it is a massive hunk of steel - if you want to use a dibble use the OST type they work better... the KBC is for driving into gravel or dropping on the enemy from 10,000 feet. As other here know I have a distaste for dibble bars - for nearly the same money your better off with a good tree spade.. https://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/products.php?mi=16140&itemnum=69119&title=Bushpro™ Speed Spade Tree Planting Shovel

If its what you have or borrowed go for it, cheaper tree spades tend to fold or flex while planting and will be more of a problem than the dibble bar will be.

 

[MilkweedManiac]

You guys are great. I’ll post some pictures when I’m finished.

 

[rocksnstumps]

This is quite encouraging news!

I assume your trees are healthy and experienced no ill-effect? Anything I should watch out for? This will be my first time planting with this method.

Just be sure to trim back any roots to be shorter than blade length on dibble. I also bought one from forestry supply after borrowing a homemade jobbie from a friend. Blade was so short always felt I was trimming too much root when getting decent bareroots.

 

[TreeDaddy]

^^^^^ not a problem with wolverine tree spade

Much like the felco-2 pruner,silky zubat, and solo spreader, i consider it "must have"

bill

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I use the kbc pointed dibble bar that cavey hates! I love it. The thing is bulletproof and it works great for seedlings like the size you have.

We have one person run the planting bar and one press in the roots, then repeat 1000 times a day.

I don't know how many we have planted with that dibble bar, but it has to be close to 10,000.

 

[NE PA QDM]

I use the kbc pointed dibble bar that cavey hates! I love it. The thing is bulletproof and it works great for seedlings like the size you have.

We have one person run the planting bar and one press in the roots, then repeat 1000 times a day.

I don't know how many we have planted with that dibble bar, but it has to be close to 10,000.

Same here. I think I’ve got 5k+ seedlings planted with mine in ridiculously rocky “soil” and that thing is pretty much bomb-proof. Not sure if it’s best for more forgiving soil or sand but it’s a great and effective tool.

 

[BOC]

To you high volume planters, do you get real picky about seedling depth or just stick them in the ground, cover them and go? I usually just make sure no needles are covered in dirt but never really paid attention to where the root collar was set. After reading some literature I'm second guessing myself.

 

[MilkweedManiac]

I have really enjoyed using a dibble over the past week. Things I have learned | observed -

1. Depending on the root size, and I had some very large roots, I had to insert the bar into the ground twice (horizontally) to widen the hole to around 12" or so. Otherwise, the roots just wouldn't go down. However, these were extremely healthy Norway roots, some with taproots almost the same diameter as the trunk, so they were stiff and I didn't want to manipulate them too much (just being cautious). Smaller trees I have tried (a few rooted Thujas and Willows) were absolutely fine to just insert the bar once as most people (I assume) do.

2. If you have hard clay like me, this isn't as fast as a process as I see on youtube. The soil moves in such tight, dense chunks that I found myself sometimes have to move over to the other side to close things back up tightly.

3. Something to guide the roots down and straighten (I used a long, shim-like piece of wood) was a big help in preventing the circling effect.

Things I'm curious (kind of concerned about) -

1. I have never really seen a tree nursery recommend this planting method. They usually give the, "dig a hole this wide and fill in the hole with loose soil under the roots, spread the roots out, tamp as you go,etc." speech. In hard clay soil, I have essentially just opened a wedge of packed earth, and closed it back over the roots. For sure, there are no air pockets, but I am a bit nervous that these roots could have used a little more aeration than the dibble provides.

2. I wonder how this method would do for fruit and nuts?

3. I wonder if I ground up some soil moist crystals, poured in bucket of water, then dipped the roots, if it would assist more delicate varieties with this technique?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

I think the dibble bar is a great way to plant a high number of seedlings with moderately sized roots - we also used a thin piece of wood to push down the roots straight in the hole. We are really picky about the seedling planting depth the first half hour or so, but after that we just do our best to get them in the ground as fast as possible! I wouldn't be too concerned if the tree is 1" too deep or too shallow.

It can be less efficient if the roots are bigger than the hole you make with the dibble bar, so I stick with seedlings that are the right size for the dibble bar. I'd rather plant 1000 with the dibble bar than 50 potted plants that cost the same total price.

This would work for fruit and nut trees as long as the root sizes match the hole depth that the dibble bar makes. I've never bothered adding any moisture crystals or anything else with the roots. If the roots looked dry I would soak them in a water bucket if I had one available, but often times I couldn't even do that.

 

[TreeDaddy]

I have also planted several thousand bare root trees with the dibble

After buying/using the Wolverine tree spade per Cavey's rec, I have retired the dibble bar

bill

 

[NE PA QDM]

To you high volume planters, do you get real picky about seedling depth or just stick them in the ground, cover them and go? I usually just make sure no needles are covered in dirt but never really paid attention to where the root collar was set. After reading some literature I'm second guessing myself.

I honestly don’t pay any attention to the depth of the collar. I pay close attention to roots, make sure I don’t J-root and make sure that I pack soil Into the hole around the roots.
My success rate is 90-95% on bare root Norway spruce so my take is that precision depth placement is not critical.

 

[NE PA QDM]

I have also planted several thousand bare root trees with the dibble

After buying/using the Wolverine tree spade per Cavey's rec, I have retired the dibble bar

bill

Looks like a solid tool.
Anyone using it in rocky ground? I have mostly rocks with some soil mixed in. Wondering if this thing can handle the rocks and drive them away/apart as the KBC bar does? If so I’m sold.

 

[cavey]

(wolverine) Its a very heavy duty tree spade that is wide/deep and great for planting bare root stock especially hardwood seedlings - but it is a bladed tool so if your driving into rock - the kbc bar being nothing more than an over sized wood splitting maul welded to some scrap pipe - that is what it is. That being said for a boulder field the kbc bar or better yet the ost dibble is maybe a better choice.

I have very heavy clay with rocks - more clay than rock but it is heavy ground and I tossed my kbc bar aside years ago and will never pick it back up. There is a tool for every job and a dibble has a place... for me its in a garbage can but I can see some value in pure rock. The tool works but it was just a inexpensive easily manufactured tool for the government to outfit its workers and not worry about cost. Nowadays the price of a dibble is very comparable to some very very good tree spades that are often lighter, better made and will, if given a chance, make many planting projects more efficient.

Im betting most would never go back to a dibble if they used something different - for many people its the first and only tool they were introduced to by the DNR when they got or ordered their trees and dont know there are better if not just different planting tools out there. Im not talking about going to fleet farm and getting a razorback tree spade - while a good brand the blade folds back when planting and that is where Im guessing most people end up thinking a dibble is better. For some it is...

but, if your using two people to do one job and using multiple tools where one works.... I and maybe some others are saying maybe there is a better way and just offering suggestions. I gotta believe there are dibble tree planting human machines out there that rock the tool - I just looked to what was being used by professional tree planters out in the NW and elsewhere and found, for me, much better options. The wolverine spade is a tank and it is my 2nd up go to tool... the first is still my brushpro hiballer which is used for most of the shrubs and pines that have smaller root systems - and I drive that into rock all the time. It has a smaller narrower but thicker blade for those younger seedlings. Though opinionated, they are just options and that is in all fun what all the bantering is about, just an option. Treedaddy can tell you how much nicer it is... I just did as well.... but they are just opinions and Im not a pro by any means... Just thought it was worth getting some added info out.

 

[cavey]

I honestly don’t pay any attention to the depth of the collar. I pay close attention to roots, make sure I don’t J-root and make sure that I pack soil Into the hole around the roots.
My success rate is 90-95% on bare root Norway spruce so my take is that precision depth placement is not critical.

The roots and getting the dirt back pressed around the trees are more important than planting depth of the trunk, roots need to be in ... green stuff on top should be out... there is a fudge factor in between and getting them into the ground with damp roots and just plain planted is what its about.

 

[NE PA QDM]

(wolverine) Its a very heavy duty tree spade that is wide/deep and great for planting bare root stock especially hardwood seedlings - but it is a bladed tool so if your driving into rock - the kbc bar being nothing more than an over sized wood splitting maul welded to some scrap pipe - that is what it is. That being said for a boulder field the kbc bar or better yet the ost dibble is maybe a better choice.

I have very heavy clay with rocks - more clay than rock but it is heavy ground and I tossed my kbc bar aside years ago and will never pick it back up. There is a tool for every job and a dibble has a place... for me its in a garbage can but I can see some value in pure rock. The tool works but it was just a inexpensive easily manufactured tool for the government to outfit its workers and not worry about cost. Nowadays the price of a dibble is very comparable to some very very good tree spades that are often lighter, better made and will, if given a chance, make many planting projects more efficient.

Im betting most would never go back to a dibble if they used something different - for many people its the first and only tool they were introduced to by the DNR when they got or ordered their trees and dont know there are better if not just different planting tools out there. Im not talking about going to fleet farm and getting a razorback tree spade - while a good brand the blade folds back when planting and that is where Im guessing most people end up thinking a dibble is better. For some it is...

but, if your using two people to do one job and using multiple tools where one works.... I and maybe some others are saying maybe there is a better way and just offering suggestions. I gotta believe there are dibble tree planting human machines out there that rock the tool - I just looked to what was being used by professional tree planters out in the NW and elsewhere and found, for me, much better options. The wolverine spade is a tank and it is my 2nd up go to tool... the first is still my brushpro hiballer which is used for most of the shrubs and pines that have smaller root systems - and I drive that into rock all the time. It has a smaller narrower but thicker blade for those younger seedlings. Though opinionated, they are just options and that is in all fun what all the bantering is about, just an option. Treedaddy can tell you how much nicer it is... I just did as well.... but they are just opinions and Im not a pro by any means... Just thought it was worth getting some added info out.

Really appreciate all the thoughts involved in this response. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was hoping for.
I always appreciate this forum for this raw input on implements and tools etc, always advice I feel like I can trust from real people. Pretty priceless stuff. Thanks.

 

[ethompson]

youtube will help understand how a dibble bar works. Both for creating a hole and then covering back up.
goodluck