Tree plot question

[Mattyq2402]

I have a small carved out kill plot ive planted for several years 1/16 acre give or take and its just a small thin oval shape about 40 yeards long and 25 yards wide. Its accessible and sets up well for south and east related winds. I have one tree to hunt from and killed 3 good bucks in 4 years from it. My question is, i have to ability to transform it into an L shape thin plot and add some fruit to it if i drop some of the canopy, it is pretty open which i feel causes less security and it would benefit from dropping some trees and adding security cover around it. this would also allow for a north wind set up. Only issue is the general layout is east facing, it gets sun from sun up until about 3pm.

Back to the question. This is a proven loction already. Would u guys add the L so you could hunt on varying winds and add the fruit to make this a go to? It also had 6 scrapes/believe primary scrape location and buck bedding just below it in thicket. My thought is adding fruit would only add to the draw, it serves as a good staging area as well with the bedding below and benches attach to it from the south and north which are good rut cruising benches. With what Ive descibed do yall think it would be a good idea to strengthen with the addition of more food and security cover?

One last question, i have a 1 acre field 175 yards from this that has 15 fruit trees thriving and should start producing in next year to 2, varying fruits and drop times. I have 9 trees coming from blue hill and nwc this spring, would u just plant all in this plot to increase the draw there? Is it a good practice to scatter your fruit on travel routes or the hub location described above? Stick to one location? Is there anyone on here that has designed a slam dunk property with fruit that could spare some knowledge?

The attached pic is the kill plot, black line is addition. I have the equipment to clear all of this and i could plant the bench all the way oit and arround the hillside where ive hinge cut a travel corridor that eventually attaches to the 1 acre food plot 175 to 200 yards away, below pic shows that plot and some of the trees ive planted.

I know this is a lot but I want to get it right and cant afford to have someone come in and help do to tight budget.

 

[Mattyq2402]

Looking at the big feild plot you can see 4 of my trees caged out of the 15. As you can see I have lots of space to put trees. My gut tells me strengthen that kill plot as its close to bedding and on a hub corridor with perineal scrapes and accessible. Im just not an expert and definately a newb to trees.

 

[Telemark]

While I'm scared to mess with things that already work well, your proposed improvements don't seem excessive. I'd probably go for it.

 

[Mattyq2402]

I have 65 acres to work with. Do you think its better to have one large plot or have multiple fruit kill plot locations that set up for various winds.

 

[Telemark]

It totally depends on what's around you.

 

[buckdeer1]

Depending on what you plant the fruit will only be there early season.Until the trees get too big they probably won't affect a food plot much.I have too many fruit trees in mine 5 acre plot along with oak trees

 

[Tree Spud]

I have 65 acres to work with. Do you think its better to have one large plot or have multiple fruit kill plot locations that set up for various winds.

You need to evaluate the 500-700 acres around you. What is your land compared to them?

Sometimes you can screw up a good thing ...

 

[yoderjac]

I have a small carved out kill plot ive planted for several years 1/16 acre give or take and its just a small thin oval shape about 40 yeards long and 25 yards wide. Its accessible and sets up well for south and east related winds. I have one tree to hunt from and killed 3 good bucks in 4 years from it. My question is, i have to ability to transform it into an L shape thin plot and add some fruit to it if i drop some of the canopy, it is pretty open which i feel causes less security and it would benefit from dropping some trees and adding security cover around it. this would also allow for a north wind set up. Only issue is the general layout is east facing, it gets sun from sun up until about 3pm.

Back to the question. This is a proven loction already. Would u guys add the L so you could hunt on varying winds and add the fruit to make this a go to? It also had 6 scrapes/believe primary scrape location and buck bedding just below it in thicket. My thought is adding fruit would only add to the draw, it serves as a good staging area as well with the bedding below and benches attach to it from the south and north which are good rut cruising benches. With what Ive descibed do yall think it would be a good idea to strengthen with the addition of more food and security cover?

One last question, i have a 1 acre field 175 yards from this that has 15 fruit trees thriving and should start producing in next year to 2, varying fruits and drop times. I have 9 trees coming from blue hill and nwc this spring, would u just plant all in this plot to increase the draw there? Is it a good practice to scatter your fruit on travel routes or the hub location described above? Stick to one location? Is there anyone on here that has designed a slam dunk property with fruit that could spare some knowledge?

The attached pic is the kill plot, black line is addition. I have the equipment to clear all of this and i could plant the bench all the way oit and arround the hillside where ive hinge cut a travel corridor that eventually attaches to the 1 acre food plot 175 to 200 yards away, below pic shows that plot and some of the trees ive planted.View attachment 32704

I know this is a lot but I want to get it right and cant afford to have someone come in and help do to tight budget.

I would not touch it as long as it is filling the objective you have for it. Slowly as surrounding habitat changes, it may stop filling that objective. That is when I would consider a change. Every time we make a significant habitat change to a small or large area, it changes how deer relate to the land. Sometimes it is for the better, but often it has an unexpected effect and specific locations.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Mattyq2402]

Good info. I have one neighbor who is planting some fruit trees as well, we have kinda co opped together. The surrounding 500 gets hunted pretty hard, one side is a 1000 acre 15 year regen from clear cut. Other sude had a select cut done 10 ago and gets a good amount of hunting pressure. My 64 only gets hunted when I travel in from out of state in early november. My 9 new trees will be october nov decenber drops.

1 mile away is a mecca property that pulls the summering bucks of size from my hill down onto him. He has lots of corn, beans, believe he has fruit. He pulled 3 giants that summered on my hill to him. I feel like I stand a chance to hold these deer if I give them the right stuff and thats why I am where I am. Anyone live in Southern Ohio that helps landowners and doesnt charge big $.

There are no orchards that Ive found in my 35 years on the surrounding 5-700 acres, thats why I think fruit would be a good draw. I typically hold a 130 to 140 inch buck every year and some years larger, i plant grain mixes and clover and get good use from my bucks. Surrounding properties are corn pilers so I have that to compete with.

 

[Mattyq2402]

Just fyi a 195" gross was killed within a mile an half last month, one of those summer bucks went 170s, and the mecca property kills 150+ every year. The opposite direction from me has also killed some gross booners. There are very big deer here every year, I just dont seem to pull them to me. I know fruit and food pmots isnt the end all but I feel like uts a start. I had a ton of ash so its hard to do much work in the woods because of the safety concerns till these trees all fall.

 

[Mattyq2402]

Ive followed jeff sturgis, have Dr Jims book, bartyllas habitat book. Is there any under the radar managers I should be following?

 

[yoderjac]

I find most of those guys over-sell a lot. I find this forum a wealth of information. Why? Because you get counter viewpoints. Nothing goes unchallenged. Approached that work in some areas under certain conditions are complete failures in others. Over time , you get a feel for whose posters have credibility and who is blowing smoke. QDMA, Now NDA, had a great forum, but decided advertisers were more important than members so they dropped the forum to "control the message". The same issue holds with most of the big name guys in the industry that have web sites and video channels and TV shows. You get a controlled message.

This forum, without advertising, has be great. As long as the discourse is civil, we see strong disagreements on a wide variety of topics with no censorship. This iron sharpening iron is helps filter thorough the BS. Keep in mind that the interrelationships are quite complex and we have a long way to go for a full understanding. No one had a corner on the market and all the right answers.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[buckdeer1]

What varieties drop that late?I wouldn't consider fruit trees as a kill plot normally,I would say dessert at a certain time of year for additions to a food plot.I would say coyotes and coons eat the most fruit then deer then myself.I think alfalfa,soybeans,milo,corn all will feed more deer than fruit trees.Now in saying that there isn't much better than walking around picking fruit from your own trees

 

[yoderjac]

What varieties drop that late?I wouldn't consider fruit trees as a kill plot normally,I would say dessert at a certain time of year for additions to a food plot.I would say coyotes and coons eat the most fruit then deer then myself.I think alfalfa,soybeans,milo,corn all will feed more deer than fruit trees.Now in saying that there isn't much better than walking around picking fruit from your own trees

Kill plots are not meant to feed deer normally. They, when combined with destination (feeding) plots can be part of feeding deer. When some say "fruit" they mean apples. While apples can be part of a tree plot there are lots of other options that may be better in some areas. It is still too early for me to judge apples for my area. One concept I'm exploring for kill plots is what I call wildlife openings. I start with a clover base and plant soft mast trees in them. Over time, native plants take over the field. I bushog them every few years when they start to get woody. After the initial planting and pruning these trees won't be maintained. While I am trying some with apples, I'm also using pears, persimmons, mulberries, and jujube. These are all small. A mix of habitat is important for all kinds of wildlife. The idea is that the trees will eventually become a food source to some degree along with native forbs and broadleaf weeds. The general idea is a very low maintenance but attractive food source.

I generally find more bucks, especially mature bucks, using fields that are weedy with a large variety of plants than a simple monoculture of clover that are hit hard by doe groups. I think they feel more secure. Who knows if these will work out in the long run. Maybe some trees like apples won't produce significant fruit because of lack of maintenance. Ohers like American persimmons will produce significant volumes of fruit eventually. Astringency protects them until the fall and sweeten where other deer have a fair shot at them. They will be low maintenance and provide more edge which deer love.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Chainsaw]

Matty, it sounds like you have a super setup going on with that food plot and I can understand wanting to set it up to be hunt-able for more wind directions I don’t have a clue though how that could be pulled off. We attempt to access our food plots in a manner that the deer do not know we have been there. None the less they do in time figure out our access and they avoid spending much time in our access area which is usually also our downwind area while we are on stand. Oversimplifying it each access and downwind area negatively Impacts deer movement for 25% of the area surrounding the food plot. Adding a second stand adds another 25% area negatively impacted. For that reason we have not figured out how to set up a plot for multiple winds (Using 25% loosely). There could be a plot say shaped long and skinny where impact of hunting two winds could work but here we just have different plots for different winds.

We have been able to slightly push the wind issue somewhat by hunting from Enclosed blinds(Rednecks) combined with good scent control habits. Still though the deer get our scent drift from our access area and downwind from our access area and at some point we have a window open or a door in the case of entry and exit so there is even a tiny bit of scent blown from the enclosed blind.

Other excellent questions have been brought up on this thread already such as What is the best way do set up a plot with fruit and can apple trees produce enough food to make them worthwhile when they are mostly not maintained. This thread could go on a long time.

I

 

[chummer]

Unless you are able to shoot these bucks in early October fruit trees by themselves are no draw for bucks. You need to make this area a draw for does. It sounds like it could be or already is. I will always believe more trees are better but figure out how to get multiple does to live in and around those plots. I have cameras on multiple fruit trees and very rarely do I get bucks eating apples after mid October. Those bucks still come to those trees though because that is where the does always are. Honestly I don’t think Bucks eat in November. They always walk through my plots but never stay to eat. The setup you have looks pretty good.

 

[yoderjac]

This thread is interesting in that it shows how strong our need is to create. The key to the original post is "This is a proven location already. " Habitat is always changing. Usually slowly but sometimes fast, especially when man gets involved. It is really hard to find those sweet spots that regularly produce mature bucks. I've found places like that on a large military base I used to hunt. There were a few specific location where I had regular encounters with mature bucks year after year. Why there? I could never figure it out. Vegetation, topography, interrelationships between many things, wind patterns, whatever.

Our desire to "improve" our land is so strong that we are itching to change things. I think my neighbor is baiting....They just clear-cut 100 acres to the north...maybe I need to.....

I have to say that over a career of hunting finding these little gems is rare. We will make significant habitat changes to "improve" these at the risk of losing them. I've done it. I'm sure many of us have. I have NEVER been successful at improving one of these proven locations. I have screwed them up.

Once again, if it were me, I'd leave well enough alone as long as it keeps producing mature bucks. If an when that ends, it might be time to make some changes.

Just reiterating my 2 cents.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[buckdeer1]

Even persimmions here are gone by end of Oct so we have to depend on native browse,ag crops or food plots.My oaks that I planted produce way more food than pears,apple and other soft mast for deer

 

[yoderjac]

Even persimmions here are gone by end of Oct so we have to depend on native browse,ag crops or food plots.My oaks that I planted produce way more food than pears,apple and other soft mast for deer

That is why I traded scions with folks that have trees that drop at different times. My hope is to have persimmons dropping from Sep through Feb. Persimmons are not a fit for every area, not tree is, but they have been my best bang for the buck in my area.

 

[Chainsaw]

Unless you are able to shoot these bucks in early October fruit trees by themselves are no draw for bucks. You need to make this area a draw for does. It sounds like it could be or already is. I will always believe more trees are better but figure out how to get multiple does to live in and around those plots. I have cameras on multiple fruit trees and very rarely do I get bucks eating apples after mid October. Those bucks still come to those trees though because that is where the does always are. Honestly I don’t think Bucks eat in November. They always walk through my plots but never stay to eat. The setup you have looks pretty good.

BUT! Come December bucks do show up at apple trees again.