Tree CRP question(s) - CP3

Dukslayr

5 year old buck +
First, let me preface this post by saying that I am/will go speak with the local FSA about these questions. My purpose for posting this is to gather any information the group may have regarding prior/current experiences with ground that is or was enrolled in the Tree CRP program to help guide my discussion with the local FSA.
I’m looking at a property right now that has ~65 acres of expiring tree CRP (which I believe to be CP3). According to the landowner, who inherited the land from his father, the land has been enrolled for 30 years, or through three 10 year contracts. I have not yet seen the contracts myself, but do know they’re set to expire in 2022. Does anyone have experience with land coming out or CP-3 after a 30 year enrollment period? We’re you able to enroll the ground in any other practices? If so, which practices did you enroll in or consider? As I understand it, once the land is in for 30 years it’s no longer eligible for re-enrollment in CP-3. I have no interest in going back in and recovering it to crop production, but I would be interested in any other programs or practices that designed to enhance the expiring practices...some of it definitely needs work. I’m assuming there may be some cost share or EQIP programs? I’m sure it’s ready for some heavy TSI if nothing else (can’t walk through some of it). Any suggestions on programs or practices to ask the FSA/NRCS about when I go in and talk to them? The landowner did say he would give me access to discuss this specific piece of the land with then so they know exactly what practices have been previously employed. I have also heard there may be enhancements and potentially new practices coming this year but haven’t heard what they are and if any might be applicable. Any general thoughts or suggestions to prep for before going to meet with them would be much appreciated!
 
Around here land in CRP qualifies for ag status and much lower taxes than woodland. I would ask your county what the current taxes are with CRP and what they will be when they are not in the CRP program. There may be a dramatic increase. Just something to look into since it could cost an additional several thousands of dollars per year in taxes.

One of my neighbors had 20 acres in a CRP tree program and his taxes went up dramatically when the land was no longer in the CRP program. He was fine with the higher taxes because he really liked the trees
 
Around here land in CRP qualifies for ag status and much lower taxes than woodland. I would ask your county what the current taxes are with CRP and what they will be when they are not in the CRP program. There may be a dramatic increase. Just something to look into since it could cost an additional several thousands of dollars per year in taxes.

One of my neighbors had 20 acres in a CRP tree program and his taxes went up dramatically when the land was no longer in the CRP program. He was fine with the higher taxes because he really liked the trees
That’s a good question, although I’m not sure it’ll be a major issue here in MO. I own both forest land and crop ground in a couple different counties right now. Mine doesn’t really vary much and rural vacant land taxes are fairly low in much of Missouri. I pay less than $1500 total per year on a total of ~512 acres...but definitely something to double check on. Thank you.
 
You are probably right - Missouri probably has much more reasonable taxes than MN and WI. Ag taxes are really low in both MN and WI, but it is crazy how much the prices increase for other classifications.
 
The trees must be huge, if they survived... I think it is possible to get them back into a tree program, I would tell them that the dozer will be out if you cannot get the trees back into CRP, and they may work a little harder on re-enrollment.
 
The trees must be huge, if they survived... I think it is possible to get them back into a tree program, I would tell them that the dozer will be out if you cannot get the trees back into CRP, and they may work a little harder on re-enrollment.
That would be my hope. Many of the trees are big. With the renewed emphasis they announced on climate change CRP practices this year you would think they’d want to keep it enrolled.
 
That would be my hope. Many of the trees are big. With the renewed emphasis they announced on climate change CRP practices this year you would think they’d want to keep it enrolled.
Can I ask what type of trees (any oak)?
 
I do not know much about these programs, but the new thing that you might want to explore is carbon credits for your hardwoods. Again, I don't have first hand experience, but I have read about it and my next door neighbor's father-in-law enrolled a few hundred acres in it and received a pretty large check. Just an idea you might want to explore.

https://www.conservationfinancenetw...egies-turn-to-small-landowners-for-big-impact
 
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FWIW it sounds like recent changes to the CP3 program only allow for one re-enrollment. In speaking with them it sounds like the only FSA programs on the table would require taking a dozer to much of it, which wouldn’t make much sense. There may be EQIP programs, but she (and I) obviously wasn’t sure if/what was available since those are managed by the NRCS, whom I didn’t have time to chat with.
I do not know much about these programs, but the new thing that you might want to explore is carbon credits for your hardwoods. Again, I don't have first hand experience, but I have read about it and my next door neighbor's father-in-law enrolled a few hundred acres in it and received a pretty large check. Just an idea you might want to explore.

https://www.conservationfinancenetw...egies-turn-to-small-landowners-for-big-impact
Interesting. Not sure if any of my land, or this one in particular, would qualify but certainly something to learn more about. Seems like their target market is the timber production areas of the east/SE, but still an interesting concept. Thank you for sharing.
 
I was able to get a CP3 back in the program in 2021 in MN, with a small stipulation of re-planting some shrubs. Depends on the state I suppose.
 
FWIW it sounds like recent changes to the CP3 program only allow for one re-enrollment. In speaking with them it sounds like the only FSA programs on the table would require taking a dozer to much of it, which wouldn’t make much sense. There may be EQIP programs, but she (and I) obviously wasn’t sure if/what was available since those are managed by the NRCS, whom I didn’t have time to chat with.

Interesting. Not sure if any of my land, or this one in particular, would qualify but certainly something to learn more about. Seems like their target market is the timber production areas of the east/SE, but still an interesting concept. Thank you for sharing.
I dunno. There are a lot of CRP changes in the wind at the moment. Maybe not considered a re-enrollment, but a quick read of some of the changes might offer hope. Ask about the HELI program. I know enough to be dangerous. I read land currently enrolled in CP-3 can be enrolled (re-enrolled?) if the land has an erodibility Index (EI) greater than 20. It's all Greek to me....

https://www.agdaily.com/news/usda-higher-payments-new-crp-enrollment/
 
I was able to get a CP3 back in the program in 2021 in MN, with a small stipulation of re-planting some shrubs. Depends on the state I suppose.
How many times has that same piece been enrolled (or re-enrolled) in CP-3?
 
I dunno. There are a lot of CRP changes in the wind at the moment. Maybe not considered a re-enrollment, but a quick read of some of the changes might offer hope. Ask about the HELI program. I know enough to be dangerous. I read land currently enrolled in CP-3 can be enrolled (re-enrolled?) if the land has an erodibility Index (EI) greater than 20. It's all Greek to me....

https://www.agdaily.com/news/usda-higher-payments-new-crp-enrollment/
It’s more Greek to me than it is to you, I know that’s for sure! There are so many programs, enhancements, incentives, etc that it’s nearly impossible to keep straight. That’s not to mention that there are multiple state and federal organizations running different programs that sometimes overlap...and sometimes don’t. No one at the FSA could speak to “what’s coming”...guess I’ll see come mid June!
 
I have been checking with the FSA in MN and Iowa since 1999, and some of the employees do not always know the CRP programs all that well. I use a private habitat person who researches CRP. I would call him an expert. He generally tells them what qualifies and then shows them the page that states that...you have to be kind of pushy.

It is not an exact science, and it changes year to year.
 
I have been checking with the FSA in MN and Iowa since 1999, and some of the employees do not always know the CRP programs all that well. I use a private habitat person who researches CRP. I would call him an expert. He generally tells them what qualifies and then shows them the page that states that...you have to be kind of pushy.

It is not an exact science, and it changes year to year.
I may need a private consultant as well. When I asked to speak with someone who was well versed in CP3 she says, “Well, I’m not sure exactly...I guess that would be me. I’ll try and help.” Nice lady but I am not confident she’d my best solution. Doesn’t help they’re under staffed and way behind on all of the expiring contracts that are in limbo right now.
 
I may need a private consultant as well. When I asked to speak with someone who was well versed in CP3 she says, “Well, I’m not sure exactly...I guess that would be me. I’ll try and help.” Nice lady but I am not confident she’d my best solution. Doesn’t help they’re under staffed and way behind on all of the expiring contracts that are in limbo right now.
In fairness, not all the details of coming sign-ups / programs are known. The county office is usually last on the list.
 
I may need a private consultant as well. When I asked to speak with someone who was well versed in CP3 she says, “Well, I’m not sure exactly...I guess that would be me. I’ll try and help.” Nice lady but I am not confident she’d my best solution. Doesn’t help they’re under staffed and way behind on all of the expiring contracts that are in limbo right now.

Mine was only allowed 1x reenrollment. It was not ever planted so I basically inherited a bunch trash trees and invasive at the end of the contract. I tried to reenroll again and get an actual plan but wasn’t able to. I was able to use IRAP funding to clear the invasive and trash trees with a Forestry head and skid steer I just converted to cp2. I needed to have farm income to deduct some toys and this was the easiest way to achieve it for me without buying more property.


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Mine was only allowed 1x reenrollment. It was not ever planted so I basically inherited a bunch trash trees and invasive at the end of the contract. I tried to reenroll again and get an actual plan but wasn’t able to. I was able to use IRAP funding to clear the invasive and trash trees with a Forestry head and skid steer I just converted to cp2. I needed to have farm income to deduct some toys and this was the easiest way to achieve it for me without buying more property.


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I will probably look into something like this if I end up buying the place. There’s about 30% of the original planting that’s been overrun with trash and choked out the planting. The rest is doing pretty well.
 
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