Select cut timber harvest questions

Rakman

A good 3 year old buck
I’m beginning to look at a select cut on 130+/- acres of timber. I have spoke with 2 local loggers directly who have toured the property. I am meeting with a forester to show him the place. He said if I hire him he will mark trees and put them out to bid to timber companies, he receives a 10% commission on sale total but said he feels very strongly he can get me more $ than using a logger directly. It may give me piece of mind this route having someone on my team.

The first logger said they’d like to cut 18”+ for oak species and smaller for some of the other species, ash, hickory, etc. He estimated $1000/acre take for me.

The second said 20” and larger for oak species and the other trees we’d take on a tree by tree basis. He estimated $800/acre take for me.

I’d like to get your thoughts and opinions on what these loggers are telling me. What your thoughts are on hiring a forester. And any experiences you may care to share in your own timber harvests. I will have this property long term so want to do this the right way. Thanks
 
I personally would hire a Forester. I hired one when I had my 80 acres logged. I can't say enough good things about the job he did. My Forester was a deer and grouse hunter and managed land with that in mind, not just for timber. I also liked he worked hourly. I feel he managed it better that way instead of making more in his pocket for cutting more trees down. If you want your woods managed right hire a Forester. A lot of loggers will high grade, which is taking all the good trees and leaving you with all the crap poor quality trees. My Forester marked all the crowded poor quality trees to be cut at the first cutting. This allowed the good quality trees to thrive and be worth way more at the next cutting in 25 years.
 
If you hire the forester make sure he has a clear idea of your management goals. There maybe a bit of compromise between max profit and management that needs to be discussed. I would have all trees marked that are to be taken regardless of if you use this forester or not and take written bids from all interested parties. The trouble with the forester getting a percentage of logging he will lean more towards short term max profit over long term management goals a bit of a conflict of interest in my opinion. There should be a forester willing to mark it at a flat rate you simply pay with your management strategy in mind. 130 acres x$800=$100,000 x 10% $10,000 you have a bit of room to simply pay a forester a flat rate to mark the property. Remember use a written contract regardless loggers bids often change drastically when it’s put in writing.
 
I had a great experience using a Forrester (retired DNR guy) that kept my interests in mind. Also he hooked me up with a good logger....whom performed as I had hoped he would. Not sure they are all as genuine as I had.....but I was pretty happy with the results. I did have a. bit more slash than hoped to deal with......but I suppose that is the real world. It's all good now....4 years later. :)
 
I’m beginning to look at a select cut on 130+/- acres of timber. I have spoke with 2 local loggers directly who have toured the property. I am meeting with a forester to show him the place. He said if I hire him he will mark trees and put them out to bid to timber companies, he receives a 10% commission on sale total but said he feels very strongly he can get me more $ than using a logger directly. It may give me piece of mind this route having someone on my team.

The first logger said they’d like to cut 18”+ for oak species and smaller for some of the other species, ash, hickory, etc. He estimated $1000/acre take for me.

The second said 20” and larger for oak species and the other trees we’d take on a tree by tree basis. He estimated $800/acre take for me.

I’d like to get your thoughts and opinions on what these loggers are telling me. What your thoughts are on hiring a forester. And any experiences you may care to share in your own timber harvests. I will have this property long term so want to do this the right way. Thanks
If they were nice oaks I’d want $1000 for just 2 trees not an acre. I’d get a forester that is on board with your exact goals for the timber and the property.
 
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I’m beginning to look at a select cut on 130+/- acres of timber. I have spoke with 2 local loggers directly who have toured the property. I am meeting with a forester to show him the place. He said if I hire him he will mark trees and put them out to bid to timber companies, he receives a 10% commission on sale total but said he feels very strongly he can get me more $ than using a logger directly. It may give me piece of mind this route having someone on my team.

The first logger said they’d like to cut 18”+ for oak species and smaller for some of the other species, ash, hickory, etc. He estimated $1000/acre take for me.

The second said 20” and larger for oak species and the other trees we’d take on a tree by tree basis. He estimated $800/acre take for me.

I’d like to get your thoughts and opinions on what these loggers are telling me. What your thoughts are on hiring a forester. And any experiences you may care to share in your own timber harvests. I will have this property long term so want to do this the right way. Thanks

We interviewed 3 foresters. The first two were very timber value focused and poo pooed our wildlife interests. The third guys was a dream. Rather than imposing his personal views, he listened to how we wanted to balance things between wildlife and timber value. He wrote a Forest Stewardship Plan for that balanced timber with wildlife. He gave us a base contract to start with and then we modified it with things we wanted. For example, we put in a clause that the buyer had to get our concurrence on logging deck locations. Another that said they had to remove the topsoil, set it aside, after use, decompress the subsoil and reapply the top soil. We required them to use Winter Rye rather that fescue to seed the decks when they were done.

In our case, we were doing some HW clear-cuts and pine thinning which is easier than a select cut. The forester marked all the timber and marketed it to buyers. He got by far a better per ton price on each timber type (paper, pole, saw logs) than we could have. He then monitored the harvest ensuring we got the thinning rates we specified in the contract. He charged us 8%. That 8% was well worth it to us.

The key is getting the right forester that fits your situation. If he is marking individual trees rather than blocks like in our case, I can see a 10% fee as being reasonable.

Thanks,

Jack
 
From the stories I've heard they will make plenty of money off of you by low balling how many cord of wood they will actually take. Every person I've talked to said the same thing. Then there were a couple that are going to court over loggers taking wood they were not supposed to touch. This is in central Minnesota.
 
From the stories I've heard they will make plenty of money off of you by low balling how many cord of wood they will actually take. Every person I've talked to said the same thing. Then there were a couple that are going to court over loggers taking wood they were not supposed to touch. This is in central Minnesota.
This is why the trees need marked pre bid so it’s crystal clear what is to be taken.
 
I have had 2 select cuts on my place and I have not used a forester for either....but I was VERY involved AND the logger I used was not too distant relation. IF i was to do it a different way...having a forester on your side is money well spent.

#1 - YOU mark each and every tree that is to be removed. you mark where it gets cut and it get a number above the mark for the logger and a matching number below the mark so you know that tree was marked before it was removed. Loggers tend to "find" a few extras they don't tell anyone about.

#2 - Don't let them take only the high dollar trees. If you are managing for wildlife...some need to go, some need to stay. Many loggers only want the oak, walnut and cherry...the high dollar trees. They then leave large "unfriendly" trees behind like maples, beech and the like that have lower timber value but create a lot of shade....that you probably don't want. Also don't let them cut on a "size" basis alone. You want some larger trees behind to provide food and a seed source for the next generation....

#3 - Removing damaged trees is always a good idea. They will come down one way or another....you might as well make a few bucks in the process.

#4 - have the landing areas defined BEFORE they get started.

#5 - have a clear plan as to what the expectation is for once the logging is done. Are they removing or piling the tops? DO you want them to grade the logging trails (the answer is YES by the way)? DO you want them to install culverts to improve your access thru the timber?

#6 - any "special" work you want done as part of their activities needs to be discussed up front as well. If you want the tops piled up or drug to form a windrow or if you want an area clear cut for a plot, you want them to dig a water hole...all that needs to be defined up front.

#7 - you define a "final retainer". What this is....the logger writes you a check for a certain amount of money BEFORE they get started. This is essentially ransom money....so they hold up their end of the deal once the trees are harvested. This amount needs to be a painful one for them that exceeds the cost it would take for them to come back and due the things they "promised" to do.

#8 - you also need to make sure they are properly insured. I had a logger that suffered a broken face on my place....they thought he may loose his eye. You also make sure they sign a "not responsible for accidents" sort of legal document to protect yourself.

#9 - not a single tree is cut until you have an agreed to price....AND if you can....paid up front.

A good forester should help you with all of this! And these are good points to bring up when choosing a forester as well.
 
I hired a forester for my select cut that is going to happen next winter. We walked the property and marked the trees set for removal, the size, and approximate amount of length. Wrote it all down, then created a list with offers to bid. He contacted loggers and made them aware that I'd be mailing out an invitation to bid. We are waiting on two loggers still to bid, currently.

The landings are picked out and not a single log will leave the property until I'm paid in full. The forester will be checking the landing and scaling on my behalf throughout the process (things I know nothing about).

The forester is a busy guy and often works in areas without cell service so he can be difficult to get in contact with. Other than that it has been an enjoyable experience and I don't feel like anyone is taking advantage of myself or the timber on my land.
 
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