Seedling hardwoods and cedar protection

roymunson

5 year old buck +
I planted 2300 trees last spring with a tree planter. 2/3 were red cedars, the others were a mix of oaks, bald cypress in the wet spots, and several other hardwoods.

I'd like to spray them and give them a chance to get some sunlight and take off this year. OUST XP is a good product, and it shouldn't hurt the trees if I spray around them, but has anyone used them with a boom sprayer? The trees are still small enough that I can get in around and over them with a tractor. They would be significantly easier to maintain if I can just use the boom sprayer, but my tree guy said he always sprays around them, not over them.

Anyone have experience with OUST XP and a boom sprayer?

I could drive the rows with a wand and spray, but I think I'd get better coverage and a more effective grass kill if I can use the boom.
 
I am not familiar with Oust XP but you could mix some up and spray it on a few of each tree and see what happens. Have the trees leafed out yet? We don't even have swollen buds yet in my area lol
 
Probably not what you're looking for with 2300 trees, but I use a 5 gal bucket upside down to cover the tree and spray around it. Bucket has a candy cane style handle sticking up I made from Stainless steel tubing.
Protects the tree from whatever you spray and no bending over. Usually have someone drive my wheeler and I walk behind with bucket and spray wand.

Here is a near image of the setup... lol
Screenshot_20230327_203804.jpg
 
How important is it to kill the weeds all the way close to the trunk? Using the bucket like this(which I love btw) would leave a bucket sized ring of weed around the tree.


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How important is it to kill the weeds all the way close to the trunk? Using the bucket like this(which I love btw) would leave a bucket sized ring of weed around the tree.


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Not really, tbh. I push the bucket up against the trunk of the tree and spray, then move the opposite side of the bucket against the opposite side of the trunk. You can pretty much get spray all around the base. As long as you aren't spraying leaves, you can't hurt the tree (at least with a topical herbicide). The spray should never touch the tree and can easily get under the complete drip line.
 
One thing to think about is that if you spray around them most likely they will get rubbed,unless tubed or caged
 
I did a wand spray last spring and it killed the grasses I hit but at 2300 trees, I'd be there for a week spraying with a bucket. Also, even with a 12-18" circle around them, the weeds shaded them out so badly come mid summer that they're not getting any sun.

I think I've settle to the fact of putting a battery pump on the back of the quad and driving the rows with a side by side spraying around them.
 
Got a question as somebody who has never even seen a cedar in the wild...just don't have them here in my neck of the Northeast.

Roy is planting cedars and I see guys like Grant Woods chopping down and burning every last one he has. Why the difference? Do they make good habitat? Do deer browse them?

edit...just read the other Cedar thread and it sounds like deer do eat them. Don't really understand cedars I guess. Seems like Woods removes them because they become biological deserts.
 
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Got a question as somebody who has never even seen a cedar in the wild...just don't have them here in my neck of the Northeast.

Roy is planting cedars and I see guys like Grant Woods chopping down and burning every last one he has. Why the difference? Do they make good habitat? Do deer browse them?

edit...just read the other Cedar thread and it sounds like deer do eat them. Don't really understand cedars I guess. Seems like Woods removes them because they become biological deserts.
They can spread and form a thicket which can become nearly impenetrable over time. ERC is a hardy tree that survives and even thrives in some harsh conditions, but there are definitely areas of the country where they have become a problem. Often viewed as "starvation food" in the north, I doubt they see much browse pressure in Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and other states where they've become a problem for land managers.
 
regarding Oust XP, dbltree from Iowawhitetail forum aka lickcreek, Paul Knox liked to use and wrote about it in his tree planting thread that is still available but quite long. Unfortunately a lot of the photos no longer come up (photobucket changes over the years likely)

In summary, comments talk about ok to spray over the tops of the trees but timing is important to do so before bud break in the spring or after hardening off in the fall. Some other posters mention that its best not to use Oust the first year after planting but fine the second year onward.

Seems to mirror if you actually look at the Oust label. Some snippets below on conifer and hardwood applications:

Without prior experience, it is advised that small areas be treated with OUST XP HERBICIDE to determine selectivity on specific conifer species before large scale treatments are made. The user accepts all responsibility for injury on any conifer species not listed above to the extent consistent with applicable law. Dormant trees are less susceptible to injury. Applications where the spray comes into direct contact with conifers after dormancy break in the spring or before the final resting bud has hardened in the fall may severely injure or kill the trees

Apply OUST XP HERBICIDE before hardwood tree seedlings or transplants break dormancy (bud swell stage). Applications made over the top after the trees have broken dormancy may injure or kill the trees.

The label info even mentions about spraying by helicopter so spraying over the top is fine if done with the right timing especially with the hardwoods. Red cedar is tough, can probably take a bit more abuse once established and see mentioned where a fella sprays from his 4 wheeler and tries to target the bottom 1/3 or below on the tree.
 
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Eastern Red Cedars in Kansas can take over entire properties if left uncontrolled we see really zero browsing so they are only good for thick cover but one only needs so much of that on any given property. Northern White Cedar is heavily browsed up north where it grows but is a completely different tree and very difficult to establish and slow growing.
 
Got a question as somebody who has never even seen a cedar in the wild...just don't have them here in my neck of the Northeast.

Roy is planting cedars and I see guys like Grant Woods chopping down and burning every last one he has. Why the difference? Do they make good habitat? Do deer browse them?

edit...just read the other Cedar thread and it sounds like deer do eat them. Don't really understand cedars I guess. Seems like Woods removes them because they become biological deserts.

Natty ... there are 2 primary types of cedars we discuss here. Red cedar which can tolerant dryer soil and prefers a bit more acid soil. It has more traditional pointy, type needles similar to a spruce. Then there are White cedar which can tolerate wetter soils. It has flatter & smoother needles.

I very seldom see deer browse red cedar. White cedar is a highly prefered browse, especially in winter for deer. Areas of high pockets of white cedars are often where deer will yard up in the winter.

Both are great thermal cover.
 
Red cedars are browsed during hard winters, but sometimes left alone during mild winters. My son and I each found a shed this spring under red cedars on our property. The heavy snow and ice caused the branches to bend down and get within reach of the deer. They pounded the branches pretty hard and left a couple antlers behind when they were doing that.
 
They can spread and form a thicket which can become nearly impenetrable over time. ERC is a hardy tree that survives and even thrives in some harsh conditions, but there are definitely areas of the country where they have become a problem. Often viewed as "starvation food" in the north, I doubt they see much browse pressure in Iowa, Missouri, Kansas and other states where they've become a problem for land managers.
Eastern Red Cedars in Kansas can take over entire properties if left uncontrolled we see really zero browsing so they are only good for thick cover but one only needs so much of that on any given property. Northern White Cedar is heavily browsed up north where it grows but is a completely different tree and very difficult to establish and slow growing.
Natty ... there are 2 primary types of cedars we discuss here. Red cedar which can tolerant dryer soil and prefers a bit more acid soil. It has more traditional pointy, type needles similar to a spruce. Then there are White cedar which can tolerate wetter soils. It has flatter & smoother needles.

I very seldom see deer browse red cedar. White cedar is a highly prefered browse, especially in winter for deer. Areas of high pockets of white cedars are often where deer will yard up in the winter.

Both are great thermal cover.
Red cedars are browsed during hard winters, but sometimes left alone during mild winters. My son and I each found a shed this spring under red cedars on our property. The heavy snow and ice caused the branches to bend down and get within reach of the deer. They pounded the branches pretty hard and left a couple antlers behind when they were doing that.

Thanks fellas for the information. Interesting. Sounds like the cedars Woods is removing all the time are red cedars.
 
I did a wand spray last spring and it killed the grasses I hit but at 2300 trees, I'd be there for a week spraying with a bucket. Also, even with a 12-18" circle around them, the weeds shaded them out so badly come mid summer that they're not getting any sun.

I think I've settle to the fact of putting a battery pump on the back of the quad and driving the rows with a side by side spraying around them.
Lots of herbicides you can spray over them. Clethodim is one. Mix 16oz in 20 gallons and point a no boom sprayer to the side and drive right down the row.
 
Lots of herbicides you can spray over them. Clethodim is one. Mix 16oz in 20 gallons and point a no boom sprayer to the side and drive right down the row.
Will that get me thru most of the summer?
 
Remember when testing spraying, do it in actual conditions. I find, atleast for me, spraying by hands vs boom, hand spraying gets more chemical due to variability.

Waiting for bud out is a good idea, and keeping drought conditions in mind too. Perhaps using a 5 gallon bucket with lid as a test tank on your boom sprayer.

Red Cedar, there is palatibily differecnes on how cedar is treated. I take good care of a cedar patch on my property, its my privacy screening. I lime and fertilize as well as irrigate during dry spells. I get growth similar to spruce trees. The deer browse it, but do not destroy it. They definitely enjoy the tastier faster growing trees.

Remember when transplanting trees, the browse is not just deer at that stage, its small game too. At my home, rabbits are out all day long. Red cedars have survived the wrath of rabbits. I grew 100 white cedars uncaged in 18, almost all died, About the same luck with red dogwood too.
 
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