Seed Coatings - and PURE LIVE SEED

Foggy47

5 year old buck +
I see so many seeds now contain a "seed coat" which makes for some confusion on my part. We're going to need to calculate the hard seed from the bag of seed we're buying; I have attached a short article from Perdue to detail what will happen if we do not consider these now common seed coat practices. I think many are aware of this practice.....but it can be a huge factor to the occasional plotter folks (like me) .....and we often don't see these tags until the seed is on our doorstep.

I've been somewhat disregarding this coating.......but no more! It's a big factor.
 

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Interesting. Maybe my clover plots always seem to need a second seeding because of that.
 
Interesting. Maybe my clover plots always seem to need a second seeding because of that.
Yeah.....so many of the seeds (primarily legumes) now have coatings on them. The rates and costs need to go up as a result.....IMO. In some cases we could be putting 1/2 of what we think we are sowing.
 
Coating or not, just hate spreading yellow, blue, or red colored seeds. Lets try to make it a little harder for the birds to find my seeds....

Frost seeded clover oats and wheat last week, there was a nice group of 50 orioles having a snack in my food plot while I was planting trees.

IF anyone finds a reasonably priced place that sells uncoated clover seeds, please pass it along. MY local AG co-op usually have some coated some not of the common types. They usually get their seed from preferred seed in niagara falls, NY.
 
We've been buying from Welter Seed Co. in Iowa for a number of years now. They have coated AND uncoated seed there. Their clover seed that I buy is just inoculated with the bacteria needed to germinate & grow.
 
Coating or not, just hate spreading yellow, blue, or red colored seeds. Lets try to make it a little harder for the birds to find my seeds....

Frost seeded clover oats and wheat last week, there was a nice group of 50 orioles having a snack in my food plot while I was planting trees.

IF anyone finds a reasonably priced place that sells uncoated clover seeds, please pass it along. MY local AG co-op usually have some coated some not of the common types. They usually get their seed from preferred seed in niagara falls, NY.
I get all my small seeds from Green Cover, and I don't recall any of them being coated with anything.
 
I get all my small seeds from Green Cover, and I don't recall any of them being coated with anything.

I’ve never gotten a coated seed from Green Cover either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Merit seed has some clovers that are just preinoculated and some that are not treated at all. Even when I plant the untreated (alsike and mammoth) I still plant at least 2x the called-for rate, but I do not plant large areas.
 
Merit seed has some clovers that are just preinoculated and some that are not treated at all. Even when I plant the untreated (alsike and mammoth) I still plant at least 2x the called-for rate, but I do not plant large areas.
If your seed coat is 1/2 of the weight of the clover seed......you may need to double up. White clover is selling for about $5.50 / lb. If your seed rate changes from 3 lbs / acre to 6 lbs / acre.....that doubles your cost $17.50 to $33.00 / acre. Do enough acres....and the costs run up.
 
If your seed coat is 1/2 of the weight of the clover seed......you may need to double up. White clover is selling for about $5.50 / lb. If your seed rate changes from 3 lbs / acre to 6 lbs / acre.....that doubles your cost $17.50 to $33.00 / acre. Do enough acres....and the costs run up.
And I already double up even with untreated seed cuz I either do frost seeding or just broadcasting in the fall…you’re right it can add up quick
 
If your seed coat is 1/2 of the weight of the clover seed......you may need to double up. White clover is selling for about $5.50 / lb. If your seed rate changes from 3 lbs / acre to 6 lbs / acre.....that doubles your cost $17.50 to $33.00 / acre. Do enough acres....and the costs run up.
So a lot of the companies say use the same amount of coated seed, and the higher success rate makes up for less seed. I always use a bit more, but never double.
 
Just saw this on a FB page I follow:

A perspective on seed.
I have been in the seed industry for 33 years. When I first entered the distribution world, I had a lot more choices of where to buy. There were continuous releases of new varieties from Ladino clovers to alfalfa to brassica. The seed world was changing due to the Managed Intensive grazing movement. Over the decades the shift began from genetics and quality to price point and ease of purchase. Many of the growers and names of the industry have been replaced. There are many more big hitters with almost a monopoly of sorts in the distribution chain.
There is a much smaller volume of growers in the alfalfa world. One of the largest and most respected companies is no longer in that world. Most of the brassicas come through a large distribution arm with a large volume of the seed originating overseas. You can count the volume of radish and turnip growers on your hands. When I first entered this world, seed was purchased based on quality at a price point where quality was considered. Now, due to the nature of the seed world, people buy for many different reasons.
In the wildlife industry, people tend to buy because of marketing. I rarely get calls or emails asking for tags or the quality of the seed I sell. We are in a world where we either coat poor quality seed or place poor quality seeds in a sealed bag so that people can’t see what they are buying. We also are in a world where legal seed tags are a game in itself. Very few people reading this will even understand a seed tag. Most of you will be afraid to ask for one before purchasing. Seed is just a click away. Where can we buy that seed at the cheapest price?
Is that cheap seed really all that cheap? What if that seed is 80% germ versus 90%? What if that seed contains 35 or 50% seed coatings? Did you know it was low germ and coated before you purchased it? Would you have still bought it? As you squint to look at the tag, you see that it contains 0.50% weeds seeds. That doesn’t sound like a lot, right? What if it was 0.05%? OMG, you just realized you bought 10 times more weed seeds than you should have.
As your staring at the tag, you realize a post that you once read on social media how you could have 1000’s of weed seeds in that bag of seed. Then you look even closer to that bag of Buck on a bag oat and instead of Contains No noxious weeds, it lists Foxtail and fescue. Now what? You look at the tag even closer and you see the test date was from one year ago. Then you realize you once read that southern variety soft seeded forage oats can change from 90% to as low as 16% in less than one year if not stored under ideal conditions. As you shake your head, you mutter to yourself, what did I just do?
My challenge to you all is to not be afraid to ask for tags. Do not be afraid to ask companies what they do with previous years seeds? Do not be afraid to learn where your seed comes from. The higher on the food chain you buy, the likely it will be fresher, more likely to test what is on your tag and with someone who will stand behind what is in the bag.
I attached a couple pics of 2 seeds that came in this week. This is not the norm. There is a whole lot of radish and buckwheat that contains over 1% inert matter. There are a lot of bags of seed out there that contain a lot more weed seeds or other crops. I, myself, smile wide when I am able to purchase this sort of quality. I never need to ask, “NOW WHAT.”
seed tag.jpeg
 
One thing I have noticed.....is that over the past few years we are seeing more coated seeds now being sold. That DEFINATELY changes the seed count in the bag. On some seeds (like brassica) it may not be a big deal as many of us seed those too thick anyway. But others it can be a big deal. Many clover seeds I bought lately have been coated. Are these "old" seed inventories that rely on the coating to be viable seeds? Do we really have a way of knowing these things?

Some of the coated seeds make it easier to see where they were broadcast......but also easier for the birds to pick up......unless covered.

I suspect that the bigger the seed dealer the bigger the turnover (and therefore the freshness) of the seed being sold. Tho....in my own experience I have not seen huge changes in germination (if any) when planting year-old seeds.

I see some positives in coatings and a few negatives too. My jury is out.

Maybe it's just me?......but, I see a need for the date harvested to be included on a seed tag.
 
One thing I have noticed.....is that over the past few years we are seeing more coated seeds now being sold. That DEFINATELY changes the seed count in the bag. On some seeds (like brassica) it may not be a big deal as many of us seed those too thick anyway. But others it can be a big deal. Many clover seeds I bought lately have been coated. Are these "old" seed inventories that rely on the coating to be viable seeds? Do we really have a way of knowing these things?

Some of the coated seeds make it easier to see where they were broadcast......but also easier for the birds to pick up......unless covered.

I suspect that the bigger the seed dealer the bigger the turnover (and therefore the freshness) of the seed being sold. Tho....in my own experience I have not seen huge changes in germination (if any) when planting year-old seeds.

I see some positives in coatings and a few negatives too. My jury is out.

Maybe it's just me?......but, I see a need for the date harvested to be included on a seed tag.
All good points by you Foggy.

I have found that I often get better germination and plot from a name brand coated seed at lower rate than higher rate of cheaper non coated seed. I do think the water retention coats, fertilizer, and microbes added to some seeds help them establish better.

If I was planting a 1000 acres then I think a uncoated seed with me managing all those other things myself (irrigation, fertilizer, microbes) would be the way to do it. A food plot where I plant 2 acres and it gets no other input the coated seed seems to do better for me. I do tend to plant them at a higher rate than what the label says. However, at two acres it might be 20 extra bucks of seed for me, but well worth it.
 
One of my BIL's is a retired Iowa farmer. He helped me plan some initial seed rates for my land when I started on my no-till journey. One thing he really emphasized to me was to make a plan for the number of seeds per acre. Not in "pounds" / acre but in numbers of total seeds to the acre. That is difficult information to attain in some cases......and especially in a mix of large and small seeds.......so I am back to lbs / acre when I compute these things. Tho I think some of the more aggressive growing seeds may outcompete the less aggressives in these mixes?.....especially if we apply far too many seeds / acre.
 
All the different types of clovers that I buy are coated but also have the % or weight of pure live seed listed on the tag.
 
One of my BIL's is a retired Iowa farmer. He helped me plan some initial seed rates for my land when I started on my no-till journey. One thing he really emphasized to me was to make a plan for the number of seeds per acre. Not in "pounds" / acre but in numbers of total seeds to the acre. That is difficult information to attain in some cases......and especially in a mix of large and small seeds.......so I am back to lbs / acre when I compute these things. Tho I think some of the more aggressive growing seeds may outcompete the less aggressives in these mixes?.....especially if we apply far too many seeds / acre.
I think you’re right buddy.

You know I’ve gotten into sorghum, and a lot of the info is on seeds per acre not pounds. Always confuses me!

Someone was asking about brassicas and I haven’t had much luck. But I throw them in with so many other seeds I’m sure they get choked out. My hope is a few make it for diversity and soil health, not really going for a turnip patch!

I could be wrong, but they seem to do better up north. Don’t they sweeten up when it gets cold? Deer dig for them? Just not a thing down here.
 
I think you’re right buddy.

You know I’ve gotten into sorghum, and a lot of the info is on seeds per acre not pounds. Always confuses me!

Someone was asking about brassicas and I haven’t had much luck. But I throw them in with so many other seeds I’m sure they get choked out. My hope is a few make it for diversity and soil health, not really going for a turnip patch!

I could be wrong, but they seem to do better up north. Don’t they sweeten up when it gets cold? Deer dig for them? Just not a thing down here.
Yep.....when clover goes dormant due to cold weather....and the rye and other grains are not doing much.....the brasica can provide the attraction for the deer. DER, PTT, Radish, Collards, Kale forage seems to appeal to the deer even after freezing temps have stopped others. The bulbs continue to provide late into winter. I've seen deer dig 3 feet into snow to get radish and turnip bulbs. It's amazing how much snow they will excavate some winters. I suppose it beats a diet of buds....often the only other choice.
 
I think you’re right buddy.

You know I’ve gotten into sorghum, and a lot of the info is on seeds per acre not pounds. Always confuses me!

Someone was asking about brassicas and I haven’t had much luck. But I throw them in with so many other seeds I’m sure they get choked out. My hope is a few make it for diversity and soil health, not really going for a turnip patch!

I could be wrong, but they seem to do better up north. Don’t they sweeten up when it gets cold? Deer dig for them? Just not a thing down here.

........or in East Texas

I plant them for diversity and soil health....... AND I love cooking PTT greens!!!!!

bill
 
I don't even know where to start. Maybe a little history is in order. A hundred or so years ago the state of the seed industry was a disaster. Farmers were finding a lot of the seed they were buying and planting wasn't providing the expected results. At the time there was no seed certification, no testing for germination, no idea if the varieties alleged were actually in the bag and what percentage of the seeds in the bag were something other than what was expected. What resulted is the system in place today. The most important part of the container of seeds you buy is the seed tag. The information on it is standard and mandated by law. Each state is responsible for administering the seed certification program and while the details vary by state the basic seed tag information is the same; germination percentage (of the stated variety being purchased), percent of weed seeds, percent of inert material and maybe a few other minor measures (hard seed, noxious weed seed, etc).

The point of all that is to provide the planter the means to establish an optimum plant population for the intended use. Germination percentage is our favorite, right? Well, that percentage is determined in the most ideal lab conditions. What germination percentage says is, "Under the most ideal planting situation this is the best you can hope for." But then we throw and mow and frost seed and just hope and broadcast. Seed bed conditions are iffy and the weather is far from ideal. Recommendations made in pounds per acre might get you into the game but it's up to you to adjust as you think appropriate. Experience and research have shown actual field germination rates as low as 20%-30% in poorly managed seedings.

The rest of the stuff, the weed seeds and inert materials are generally low and are manipulated by the seed processor. There are standards that need to be met. A batch of below standard seed will be blended with a better to get into compliance. All this happens after cleaning which is a low tech process where it's economically impossible to remove all the non-variety seeds and other material - like stems and stalks.

Cost is always important. If you have a choice of two bags of "identical" seed and after a little calculation you find one has 75% viable seed (pure live seed) and the other 85% you know which one to buy assuming the price tag on the bag is the same.

But, again, the goal is to establish the optimum number of plants per acre to achieve some desired outcome.

Now we have coated seed. Do you think anybody planting seed has demanded coated seed? Nope. Anytime someone seeds and the result is less than ideal or a failure it's always because the seed was bad. Not likely. But the seed processors and sellers are the ones that get the blame. So, to stop the poor seed manager-planters from blaming their failures on the seed sellers, along comes coated seed to provide what appears to be a way to help even the most uninformed get something to grow.

If you understand how to read a seed tag and you understand what's required to properly plant that seed, the coatings are probably just an added expense. Or, you might think of it as insurance to help you slip through some unmanageable situations.

The still open question for me is how to managed seed expectations where you want a multiple species planting. I am still of the mind its impossible to achieve an optimum solution given all the variables. But we have hope!
 
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