Sandbar Willows VS RedOshier Dogwoods

[PrairieShadow]

I've got a natural funnel running from one end to the other of my property just based on land contour(small drainage). It's all native grasses right now but I've got the idea to make it even better by creating a thicket of some sort.

It will be fairly wet ground in general but not standing water. I was leaning to ROD but after talking to a neighbor who has it, he stated that he regrets planting it because his shelterbelts are full of it now because of birds carrying the berries to it. I really am not interested in seeing my other shelterbelts taken over by ROD.

The sandbar willow patch i know of always has wildlife hanging in it. It seems pretty contained to only spreading by suckering which I like the idea of.

What have been your experiences with these 2 trees for creating thickets?

I'd have to buy the ROD but they can be had fairly cheap.
I can get the Sand Bar willows for free. All I have to do is go get the cuttings. Should i root them in water first or just stick the cutting into the ground?

 

[Tree Spud]

I've got a natural funnel running from one end to the other of my property just based on land contour(small drainage). It's all native grasses right now but I've got the idea to make it even better by creating a thicket of some sort.

It will be fairly wet ground in general but not standing water. I was leaning to ROD but after talking to a neighbor who has it, he stated that he regrets planting it because his shelterbelts are full of it now because of birds carrying the berries to it. I really am not interested in seeing my other shelterbelts taken over by ROD.

The sandbar willow patch i know of always has wildlife hanging in it. It seems pretty contained to only spreading by suckering which I like the idea of.

What have been your experiences with these 2 trees for creating thickets?

I'd have to buy the ROD but they can be had fairly cheap.
I can get the Sand Bar willows for free. All I have to do is go get the cuttings. Should i root them in water first or just stick the cutting into the ground?

Sandbar also spreads by seed. When they are ready, the seed capsule splits open and seed is distributed by wind.

I wouldn't worry about ROD taking off and getting out of control. If you have any level of reasonable deer population, they will browse it back.

In wetter soil, I would go with sandbar willow. If the deer browse it, much better regrowth along with multiple stems coming up.

 

[Telemark]

Willows

 

[trampledbyturtles]

Only problem with sandbars is they need constantly moist ground, drought years set them back. Long term droughts shrink the stand.

But yes they r great to have around.

Combo of the 2 is best of both worlds.

 

[Bill]

willows, don't root them. poke them into the wet ground and hope it stays wet.

ROD, maybe poke them in rooting hormone then poke them in the ground.

 

[PrairieShadow]

Thanks guys. Either way, I'll be putting a few thousand suckering trees/shrubs in the dirt this year.


@Bill How far should I bury the willow cuttings in the ground?

 

[Bill]

Thanks guys. Either way, I'll be putting a few thousand suckering trees/shrubs in the dirt this year.


@Bill How far should I bury the willow cuttings in the ground?

The further the better. Every bud that is below ground becomes a root. I like at a minimum 2/3 below the ground. usually I only leave 2 buds above ground. With ground water you may want more above the dirt because the water may rise.

 

[loshonhora]

If your neighbor has tons of red osier and doesn't like it, he should let you take all the cuttings you want.

 

[Brian662]

If your neighbor has tons of red osier and doesn't like it, he should let you take all the cuttings you want.

Without knowing their relationship, my guess is the guy was bluffing a bit about the ROD and probably doesn't want the OP to enjoy the same benefits he has with his thickets.
I'm trying to establish ROD on my land because nearly everybody says it is an extremely highly preferred browse species.

 

[tlzkaasen]

I have 50 sandbar willows coming to test in North Central WI. First time planting those. Planning on planting along paths in my Tamarack swamp and border edges from my neighbors. The ROD I have about a dozen around my SE WI property (4 feet wide 6 feet tall I bet) that I'm going to prune up ;). I'll need to figure out some sort of a cage on the North central WI PROPERTY because deer absolutely wipe them out in my area without protection

 

[PrairieShadow]

Without knowing their relationship, my guess is the guy was bluffing a bit about the ROD and probably doesn't want the OP to enjoy the same benefits he has with his thickets.
I'm trying to establish ROD on my land because nearly everybody says it is an extremely highly preferred browse species.

It's a good relationship, Our land butts up to one another and we have the same goals. What benefits him benefits me and vis versa. He just doesn't like the fact that his shelter belts now have ROD all over them cause the birds carry the berries over there to eat/crap out and they volunteer. He did agree that the deer love them.

I'm sure he would let me cut all I wanted to cut if I decided to go that route.


I've got some willows around as well. The deer hammer those back to the point that they are hard to find in the grass.

Willows are more natural in my part of the world that's for sure. Which may make the willows more appealing to plant, or maybe it'd be the ROD that's more appealing....Decisions

 

[Telemark]

If I have to choose one or the other, I choose willows. In my experience, deer are on and in them all year.

If we are allowed to throw a wildcard, then the obvious answer is: both, plus a bunch of other stuff. I'm a big fan of diversity, and so are deer.

 

[PrairieShadow]

If I have to choose one or the other, I choose willows. In my experience, deer are on and in them all year.

If we are allowed to throw a wildcard, then the obvious answer is: both, plus a bunch of other stuff. I'm a big fan of diversity, and so are deer.

I like Wildcards. What else you got for me besides sandbars and ROD?

 

[GoldenTriangleIL]

I like Wildcards. What else you got for me besides sandbars and ROD?

You would have to confirm with your climate, but you might consider buttonbush, silky dogwood, false indigo, witchhazel, some hawthorn species.

 

[PrairieShadow]

Witchhazel is zone 4 as well as some hawthorn I believe. Thank you!

 

[H20fwler]

I like Wildcards. What else you got for me besides sandbars and ROD?

Besides the ROD, I have had luck with;

Purple Osier
Silky Dogwood
Yellow Twig
All get browsed hard.

Other shrubs we have put in;
Buttonbush..slow growing but once established is thick...not browsed much
Hazelnut..grows great on edges
Chokeberry..gets browesd hard
Elderberry..Browsed hard
Winterberry...browsed hard
American plum..browsed hard
Pinoak...browsed hard
Nannyberry..browsed hard
Ninebark..browsed hard
Crabapple...browsed hard
Indian Currant...browsed hard
Highbush cranberry...not browsed bad

Going to put in some Flame willow.

Deer will browse almost everything bad, what they don’t the bucks beat up on just when it starts looking good. If possible to protect for first couple years it would jump start the project immensely. With willow and dogwood I think you can get ahead of the deer with volume plantings.

 

[PrairieShadow]

Besides the ROD, I have had luck with;

Purple Osier
Silky Dogwood
Yellow Twig
All get browsed hard.

Other shrubs we have put in;
Buttonbush..slow growing but once established is thick...not browsed much
Hazelnut..grows great on edges
Chokeberry..gets browesd hard
Elderberry..Browsed hard
Winterberry...browsed hard
American plum..browsed hard
Pinoak...browsed hard
Nannyberry..browsed hard
Ninebark..browsed hard
Crabapple...browsed hard
Indian Currant...browsed hard
Highbush cranberry...not browsed bad

Going to put in some Flame willow.

Deer will browse almost everything bad, what they don’t the bucks beat up on just when it starts looking good. If possible to protect for first couple years it would jump start the project immensely. With willow and dogwood I think you can get ahead of the deer with volume plantings.

Lots of good options there for my zone. Thanks!

 

[Telemark]

I like Wildcards. What else you got for me besides sandbars and ROD?

Sallow, Grey willow, Ninebark, silky dogwood, elder, for example

 

[buckdeer1]

Wheres the best place to get ROD?

 

[PrairieShadow]

Wheres the best place to get ROD?

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