RootMaker system

b116757

5 year old buck +
I started some American chestnuts this year most in RootMaker 18’s and a few in two quart milk containers. My RootMaker started trees have done much better than the two quart milk container trees in fact all 5 of the milk container trees have died. I transferred many straight to the ground from RM 18’s and the milk containers about 3 weeks ago all milk jug trees died not a single RM 18 tree direct planted has died to date and I’ve replaced the milk jug started trees with RM’s a week ago and no issues with them so far. I just received my RM 1 gallon injection molded pots yesterday and transplanted 20 bench grafted apple trees and 15 pear trees to them also had quite a few trees in my RM 18’s that all got moved to the new 1 gallon pots. The trees that where planted straight from RM 18’s to the ground where in my yard tubed and babied these where not left to fend for themselves. I’m not reinventing the wheel here I’ve read all Jacks posts on his experience with the RM system just sharing my observations from this year so far.
 
They will all likely die if you transplant to the ground from 18s. If you keep them watered as needed, some may live, but they won't likely thrive. Rootmaker is a system of containers. I've had marginal success plating them after they have filled 1 gal RB2s. Most survive and some thrive. By far, my best success has been doing a second transplant into 3 gal RB2s and waiting until the roots fill them and then transplant into the field. Nearly all trees thrive.

You are better off direct seeding than trying to plant from 18s directly into the field.

(I'm sure you've read this, but others new to this may benefit from the reiteration).

Thanks,

Jack
 
I don’t have the time and patience for using the rootmaker system. My preference has become direct seeding. I’ve started in 18s and some 1qt and then transplanted with success when I’ve been able to water enough and protect. Just starting indoors is more work than I can keep up with to ensure best watering and care. Too many opportunities for a few days of fatal neglect between kids, work, travel, etc.
 
I don’t have the time and patience for using the rootmaker system. My preference has become direct seeding. I’ve started in 18s and some 1qt and then transplanted with success when I’ve been able to water enough and protect. Just starting indoors is more work than I can keep up with to ensure best watering and care. Too many opportunities for a few days of fatal neglect between kids, work, travel, etc.
That is certainly understandable. The setup is expensive and the maintenance is high. For me, it was a habitat project that I could cure cabin fever with in the winter and let me plant hundreds of trees for a quite low cost/tree when all my costs (except labor) were amortized. It is not fore everyone. Personally, I enjoyed the learning aspects a lot. I'm old enough now that I've stopped growing trees in volume and sold all my RM stuff. That lowered my cost per tree even further and the equipment went to a good home (someone on this forum). I too have too much on my plate as we build and transition to retirement.

You are a great resource for folks on this forum when it comes to trees!
 
I’ve planted a substantial number of trees in the last two years with purchased seedlings they are cheap. The RM system is more of a hobby to fool with for me more than anything. Last year I picked up 5 RM18 trays and I just picked up 90 RM 1 gallon pots to dabble with. Jack you have said you have better success after transplanting twice to 3 gallon then direct planting after that what is the reason you think your success is higher after the 3 gallon??? Root system large/deep enough to withstand some drought???
 
I’ve planted a substantial number of trees in the last two years with purchased seedlings they are cheap. The RM system is more of a hobby to fool with for me more than anything. Last year I picked up 5 RM18 trays and I just picked up 90 RM 1 gallon pots to dabble with. Jack you have said you have better success after transplanting twice to 3 gallon then direct planting after that what is the reason you think your success is higher after the 3 gallon??? Root system large/deep enough to withstand some drought???

After the initial planting and tubing or caging (depending on the type of tree) my trees in the field get zero care. No supplemental water or anything. If a tree can't grow and produce without care, it is not a good wildlife tree for me. I'm trying to put together a permaculture that will continue on its own long after I'm able to provide maintenance. I'm also designing a permaculture to feed deer which requires a volume of trees greater than I could maintain if I wanted to.

I think I said this in another post, but a tree's ability to extract nutrients and water is directly related to the number of fine terminal root tips. With trees grown in a root pruning container system, you get a root ball with a huge number of these terminal root tips. It can extract a lot of water and nutrients from whatever it can reach. The key is "whatever it can reach". When planted, the root system is only as large as the container. It doesn't take a formal drought for the top layer of soil to dry out in the summer. That is why the trees I've planted in the field from 18's have near zero survival rate for me. I've planted hundreds directly from 18s. We get pretty good rain here, but we do have some dry periods, enough that trees planted from 18s will die from lack of water. Most of the trees I plant from 1 gal containers survive. I think that during dry periods that first year, they are limited on the amount of water they can reach. I think this significantly retards their development and some don't survive. Depending on the tree and the micro-environment (amount of shade, general soil moisture, competition for moisture...) some trees planted from 1 gals will thrive.

In my environment, virtually all trees I've planted from filled 3 gal RB2s have thrived. I think it simply because they are less water limited that first year which means the root system grows more along with increased top growth resulting in it being able to reach further more quickly for water.

Now there is something else you should know about my specific condition that may or may not apply to others. I have heavy clay soil and I use promix as the medium. One major benefit of rootmaker trees vs bare root trees is that you don't get they year of sleep, creep, and then leap. The begin growing almost immediately because the rootball is undisturbed. The RB2 containers unwrap. When you amend soil planting a bare root seedling or plant a rootmaker tree grown in promix in heave clay your create a pond due to the difference in infiltration. During wet periods, water infiltrates promix much faster than clay so you get a pond at the rootball. During dry periods, the reverse is true. Clay retains water much better than promix and you get a drying out of the roots. That makes planting technique in heavy clay important.

Here is the method that I developed that works well for me. I start by picking a location where ground water is not likely to drain into the hole. I then use an auger on my tractor to dig a deep hole; much deeper than the RB2 but almost the exact diameter. I use a hand rake to make sure the sides of the hole did not glaze with the auger. I then backfill the hole with crush stone and then add a little native clay soil on top of the stone. I then put the rootball in the hole. I often have to stand on the root ball to get it to squeeze into the hole. The fit is that tight. I leave the promix about 1" above ground level and then take native clay soil and mound it around and just over the promix. This creates a small mound discouraging ground water from draining into the hole.

So, what happens here? We get plenty of rain in the spring. Water does infiltrate the promix but it continues in infiltrate and forms the pond well below the root ball. Trees are fine with roots growing into a water source. They will adapt as needed. Thus all the tree growing along streams and ponds are fine. They don't want the rootball sitting in water for a significant period. Because these trees begin growing immediately, before our summer comes along and we get dry periods, the lateral roots have grown into the native clay that holds moisture much better than the promix. Thus, these 3 gal trees have sufficient access to water during the summer.

Other locations may be different. Like most things habitat, different places may need to adapt things or use different techniques.

So, that is a detailed description of why I think 3 gal trees perform better than 1 gal trees for me. If you are providing supplemental water and nutrients as needed or have different soil or weather conditions than we do here, things my be different for you.

Thanks,

Jack
 
I'm glad I found this thread. I have about 180 hybrid chestnut seeds from the University of Missouri program and I was thinking about starting them in the 18 cell Rootmaker trays indoors later this winter and then transplanting them directly from the RM 18 cell trays to their permanent location in the field in late May/early June or whenever they reach a decent size. I don't understand why these would not have great survival and continue to grow well after starting in the rootmaker 18 cell trays and then transplanting to the field. The photo below shows catalpa trees started in the RM 18 cell and then 4, 8, and 12 days after transplanting. With this kind of root growth so soon after transplanting, how could a chestnut (or any tree for that matter) that is started in the RM 18 cell trays and transplanted to the field in late spring/early summer not thrive (unless there was an extreme drought)? I would expect them to do very well but now I'm hesitant to use this method. If anyone has done this please let me know how the survival rates were. thanks


the image below is a screenshot from the following youtube video at around the 9 minute mark:


ROOTMAKER.JPG
 
I have had very few rootmaker trees survive and none thrive when planted in the field directly from 18s and I've done hundreds. I'm in an area that rarely goes into drought. The problem is reach. While a the dense fibrous root system is very efficient at water and nutrient uptake, it has very little reach. It only takes a short period without rain for the top few inches of soil to dry out. Without supplemental water (mine get none), I've had no success planting directly from 18s. I've had very good success transplanting to the field after the roots have filled 1 gal RB2 containers. Most survive and many thrive. When they have filled a 3 gal RB2 before planting, my success has been outstanding. All survive and most thrive.

I transplant from 18s to 1 gal after 12-16 weeks. It is important to slowly transition them from indoors to outdoors. They need to move into a shaded location outdoors and then gradually moved to where they get more sun. I keep them on my decks (first lower shaded and eventually upper full morning sun) for 1 growing season. My strongest growers have filled 1 gals by early summer and are transplanted to 3 gals. Some years I planted them all when they went dormant. Other years, I transplanted some of the 1 gal trees into 3 gal rb2s and keep them on my deck for a second growing season. When on my deck they get good care and water and nutrition and grow like gang busters.

I've seen the video and had a number of email conversations with Dr. Whitcomb when I first started. I'm done growing trees from seed and planting them at this point and sold all my stuff, but there are many threads on here where I share my experiences growing chestnuts and other trees from nuts and seeds indoors with rootmakers.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Does anyone have a trusted source for purchasing rootmakers? I tried last year to buy some and couldn't find any. This year is looking similar. There are several websites that advertise them but when you call to place an order they say they are backordered.
 
I have had very few rootmaker trees survive and none thrive when planted in the field directly from 18s and I've done hundreds. I'm in an area that rarely goes into drought. The problem is reach. While a the dense fibrous root system is very efficient at water and nutrient uptake, it has very little reach. It only takes a short period without rain for the top few inches of soil to dry out. Without supplemental water (mine get none), I've had no success planting directly from 18s. I've had very good success transplanting to the field after the roots have filled 1 gal RB2 containers. Most survive and many thrive. When they have filled a 3 gal RB2 before planting, my success has been outstanding. All survive and most thrive.

I transplant from 18s to 1 gal after 12-16 weeks. It is important to slowly transition them from indoors to outdoors. They need to move into a shaded location outdoors and then gradually moved to where they get more sun. I keep them on my decks (first lower shaded and eventually upper full morning sun) for 1 growing season. My strongest growers have filled 1 gals by early summer and are transplanted to 3 gals. Some years I planted them all when they went dormant. Other years, I transplanted some of the 1 gal trees into 3 gal rb2s and keep them on my deck for a second growing season. When on my deck they get good care and water and nutrition and grow like gang busters.

I've seen the video and had a number of email conversations with Dr. Whitcomb when I first started. I'm done growing trees from seed and planting them at this point and sold all my stuff, but there are many threads on here where I share my experiences growing chestnuts and other trees from nuts and seeds indoors with rootmakers.

Thanks,

Jack


Thanks Jack. So would it be better to do as I've done in the past? In the past I've grown thousands of apple, chestnut, and oak trees from seed germinated in the garden for 1 year, then dig up and transplant to their permanent location the 2nd year as soon as possible after the ground thaws in the spring while they are dormant. I usually cut any roots off that are longer than 8" or so, that makes it easy to plant them with a tree spade. Or would it be good to grow them the first year in "air pruning boxes" like in the video below, and then transplant to the field the 2nd year? Do you think trees started in "air pruning boxes" and then planted out the 2nd year in their permanent location would do better than growing them from seed in the garden for a year and then transplanting the 2nd year? thanks

 
Does anyone have a trusted source for purchasing rootmakers? I tried last year to buy some and couldn't find any. This year is looking similar. There are several websites that advertise them but when you call to place an order they say they are backordered.

I purchased mine directly from rootmaker in bulk. Make sure you understand shipping cost if you do this, but part of the 3 gal RB2s came from one factory and the bottoms came from another, so there were two shipping charges. Too bad you weren't looking when I sold all mine.
 
Thanks Jack. So would it be better to do as I've done in the past? In the past I've grown thousands of apple, chestnut, and oak trees from seed germinated in the garden for 1 year, then dig up and transplant to their permanent location the 2nd year as soon as possible after the ground thaws in the spring while they are dormant. I usually cut any roots off that are longer than 8" or so, that makes it easy to plant them with a tree spade. Or would it be good to grow them the first year in "air pruning boxes" like in the video below, and then transplant to the field the 2nd year? Do you think trees started in "air pruning boxes" and then planted out the 2nd year in their permanent location would do better than growing them from seed in the garden for a year and then transplanting the 2nd year? thanks


I don't have any experience with the air pruning boxes so I can't speak to them. Looks like a similar concept, but I'm not sure how they retain medium with holes that large in the bottom. The Rootbuilder II containers direct roots to the sides where they are air pruned. Also, as roots begin to fill a container, they can become hard to top water. With an RB2 I can pick up a container and immerse it in a tub of water to soak it when top watering becomes difficult. There may be other ways to skin the watering cat, but keep in mind chestnuts don't like wet feet. With rootmakers, it is best to completely inundate them with water and then let them dry out (to a point) and repeat the process.

Keep in mind that air pruning requires a system of containers not a single container like an 18. If you look at Whitcomb's work, most of the branching occurs within the first 4" upstream of the prune. So, You really want to let the roots fill a container and then transplant to another air pruning container with about 4" or so of room on all sides of the root ball. The boxes don't look like they would direct roots or air prune on the sides like the RB2s. IT would also be a challenge to acclimate them to the out doors if you start them indoors and then transplant to the boxes.

As for the garden method. It is more like a direct seeding a tree in the final location presuming you can keep the tap root intact when you plant them in the field. You will have a much longer tap root which will ensure access to moisture better than coming from an 18. Keep in mind, it is a tradeoff. With a root pruning system, you get increased root density and top growth. With direct seeding, you get a slower growing, tree but more natural tree. Nature prioritizes survival when young over growth and development. With a root pruning system, you are ensuring survival when young by providing good water and nutrition the first year or two. The root pruning forces the tree to put energy into a more efficient root system and faster top growth rather than producing a deep tap root that will maximize the chance of survival when young.

My best trees are those that get two transplants into 1 and then 3 gal Rootbuilder II containers. Similar to your air pruning boxes, you might also look at a "Missouri Gravel Bed". I looked hard at those and considered building one, but given my age, I knew I would not be growing trees long enough for the investment to be worth it. It is another approach that focuses on developing a dense root system that is easy to extract intact when you transplant to the field.

These are just random thoughts for you to consider. Rootmakers were very good to me. It was a good sized investment up front, but when I amortized it over the number of trees I planted, the cost per tree was pretty low. There is more than one way to skin a cat. I just don't think planting directly from 18s in the field is the best option.

Thanks,

Jack
 
My experience is similar to Jack's

My best success has been transplanting 3 gal RBIIs to field

Direct transplant of RM 18s is uniformly fatal . Success with RBII 1 gal has been marginal

I start my trays in Feb in Texas outdoors and graduate them to larger containers at 2-3 mo intervals

Im experimenting this winter and have 16 trays that i started in october of white oak,DCO,live oak , and chinkapin oak in the back yard

Those that survive and sprout topgrowth spring 2023 will be moved to 1 galRBII

Im sure there are other methods(direct seed,etc), but a backyard full of baby trees is as much a part of warm weatherand summer as baseball,hot dogs,etc

bill
 
I'm so glad I found this thread before I decided to use the RM cells. I think I will try direct seedling them in their permanent location if I can keep them from sprouting to early so I can direct seed them after the ground thaws in the spring. I have the chestnut seeds stratifying in wood shavings in plastic bags in the refrigerator.
 
I'm so glad I found this thread before I decided to use the RM cells. I think I will try direct seedling them in their permanent location if I can keep them from sprouting to early so I can direct seed them after the ground thaws in the spring. I have the chestnut seeds stratifying in wood shavings in plastic bags in the refrigerator.
Most guys that direct seed do it in the fall and let nature cold stratify the seed. The challenge is rodents digging up the seed. Guys use all kinds of things like window screen and such to protect them. The down side to direct seeding is that you can't easily cull. Some folks put several nuts in one hole and in case some don't germinate and then cull locally from the hole. The advantage of using the rootmaker or similar system is that some nuts won't germinate. Some that doo will be poor growers. Some will have poor form. Some that are good growers at first have an issue and don't perform well over time. Starting nuts indoors under lights lets me start with many more nuts than trees. I then use many more 18 cells than available 1 gal RB2s. Also have fewer 3 gal rb2s. I cull and keep the best at each transplant. By the time I field plant and do all the work to plant and protect the tree, I have much higher confidence I'll get a good tree than when I direct seed.

I do both. This year I tried direct seeding about 50 Allegheny Chinquapins. I planted them in a fairly small area with no protection (but for enough from the woods to avoid squirrels and this is a bumper mast crop year). I just sprayed and stuck the nuts in the ground. I'll see what happens next spring. I may e-fence the entire planted area. ACs will produce nuts in just a couple years and tend to take a bush form for me. I may eventually try culling there or just let them fight with each other.
 
I've had awesome success with a Missouri gravel bed. We used telephone poles that we had laying around to create the border and then filled with creek sand. The depth is probably about 18-20" and we used landscape fabric for the bottom. We use it as an overflow for trees we didn't have time to plant from MDC. We have never watered the trees and have lost almost zero trees in the process, but some definitely do better in the pure sand than others. The following spring or when we have a spot locked out for the trees, we just dig them up and plant.

I have yet to use them with direct seeding. When I do that early this spring, I'll take photos and make a new post for reporting back.
 
A few members have had good luck growing in bags. Periodically, you take the tree out of the bag, cut back the roots coming back, or loosen the soil and put in bigger bag.

I removed a few plum tree seeding I grew in 1 gallon regulars pots in spring 2021 and transplanted into the ground that fall. Some are a twisted mess. I tried to straighten them out when I put them in my nursery garden. Will likely put them somewhere at camp. The plums did well up there, however I brush hogged around them in one spot. The deer found em.

If your short on spots to plant them, or need them a bit more. Do them right. Learning that one fast.
 
A few members have had good luck growing in bags. Periodically, you take the tree out of the bag, cut back the roots coming back, or loosen the soil and put in bigger bag.

I removed a few plum tree seeding I grew in 1 gallon regulars pots in spring 2021 and transplanted into the ground that fall. Some are a twisted mess. I tried to straighten them out when I put them in my nursery garden. Will likely put them somewhere at camp. The plums did well up there, however I brush hogged around them in one spot. The deer found em.

If your short on spots to plant them, or need them a bit more. Do them right. Learning that one fast.

I think the bags most guys use are canvas or burlap and air prune. There are several ways to root prune. One is air pruning. when a root hits the air it desiccates causing up stream branching. With bags you want to hang them so there is air flow below the bag. Another type of root pruning is root trapping. Rootmaker has roottrapper bags. They are pvc on the outside with a fabric that traps root tips on the inside. This keeps them from continuing to grow, circle or J-hook and has the same effect.

A third method, and I should have mentioned this to bornagain, is root constriction. This is another option. You use the 18s to start your trees indoors. Instead of using Rootbuilder II pots for the next stage, you use the in-ground bags that Rootmaker sells (or equivalent). When roots grow through the holes in these bags, they are constricted. This makes extraction from the garden quite easy and has the same effect as air pruning or root trapping. These bags are much less expensive than RB2 containers. So, if you already have a garden setup, this might be a less expensive solution to consider.

Thanks,

Jack
 
This post isn't completely on topic per say but some may find it helpful (or not).
Taproot trees CAN be forced to grow a fibrous root system, they do have the genetics to do both but the fibrous system is a backup to deal with less than favorable conditions. Taproot is the first choice. I believe long term that direct seeded trees are stronger and better suited to deal with those 10yr droughts or 30yr cold snaps. Unless soil conditions such as bedrock creating a thin soil layer point towards another direction. Store bought trees are a completely different story. I would much rather have a fibrous root system from a taproot tree than a circled or Jhooked tap in a pot.

Having said that I've grown plenty both ways. I have several flats of 18' and larger Rootbuilders. Lots of fun to start and grow trees in the winter!
 
I have posted this before, but here is an option for direct seeding.

Take a soup can and cut an X in the bottom of it.( larger coffee can size for walnuts).
Tip the flaps from the X cut outward( or upward).

Plant your seeds in their final location inside of the buried and inverted can. The can will protect most seeds from getting dug out. After emergence, protect with screen or tree tubes, weed mats, etc.

I did this with walnuts over 30 years ago and the tin cans rusted away and did not girdle the trees. I imagine you could split the sides of the can before planting, for very fast growing trees.


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