Question on frost seeding

Bowsnbucks

5 year old buck +
I don't think I've seen info on seeding clover on top of late-season snow. Would this work like frost seeding does ?? Will the clover seed get down into the soil as the snow melts like frost seeding ?? Or do you need bare ground & stick to regular frost seeding ??
 
I don't think I've seen info on seeding clover on top of late-season snow. Would this work like frost seeding does ?? Will the clover seed get down into the soil as the snow melts like frost seeding ?? Or do you need bare ground & stick to regular frost seeding ??

I have been frost seeding clover on top of snow for the past 15 years and it has worked very well. It helps to be able to see your seeding amount and pattern and the seed will generally stick in place. On just frozen ground seed will bounce rather than stick and tend to collect in low spots making for poor even distribution.
 
Never tried clover but like Spud says it must work. I know with switch grass the seed somehow warms in the sun light and starts sinking through the snow.
 
I don't think I've seen info on seeding clover on top of late-season snow. Would this work like frost seeding does ?? Will the clover seed get down into the soil as the snow melts like frost seeding ?? Or do you need bare ground & stick to regular frost seeding ??

Some seed like clover surface broadcasts well under the right conditions. True frost seeding occurs when the top inch or so if soil freezes at night and thaws during the afternoons. This cause heaving and microfractures in the soil sucking the clover to a great level for germination.

The timing of the broadcast can affect your germination rates. There are risks associated with broadcasting on top of the snow. First, the clover seed becomes very visible for predation by song birds and the like at a time of year when many other food sources are covered by the snow. Another risk is a fast snow melt. This is of little issue on a flat field, but on slopes the seed can wash into channels leaving large bare spots and high density sections. Clover seed is pretty hard and will likely survive weather conditions but some percentage is lost as it sits over time without germinating.

In most cases, the result of broadcasting on top of snow is simple a somewhat lower germination rate because of predated seed. On the other hand, if you wait too late and soil heaving is over, while it may not technically be frost seeding, surface broadcasting clover can still be effective if weeds have not started.

My favorite use of frost seeding is not for establishing perennial clover. It is for filling in bare spots or thickening a thin or aging clover field. In my area, at least, I have less weed issues when I fall plant perennial clover with a nurse crop of WR. It gives it a bit more head-start than frost seeding does. First, some clover will germinate in the fall when it is planted. Second, the WR will help combat weeds while the clover is establishing itself.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Some seed like clover surface broadcasts well under the right conditions. True frost seeding occurs when the top inch or so if soil freezes at night and thaws during the afternoons. This cause heaving and microfractures in the soil sucking the clover to a great level for germination.

The timing of the broadcast can affect your germination rates. There are risks associated with broadcasting on top of the snow. First, the clover seed becomes very visible for predation by song birds and the like at a time of year when many other food sources are covered by the snow. Another risk is a fast snow melt. This is of little issue on a flat field, but on slopes the seed can wash into channels leaving large bare spots and high density sections. Clover seed is pretty hard and will likely survive weather conditions but some percentage is lost as it sits over time without germinating.

In most cases, the result of broadcasting on top of snow is simple a somewhat lower germination rate because of predated seed. On the other hand, if you wait too late and soil heaving is over, while it may not technically be frost seeding, surface broadcasting clover can still be effective if weeds have not started.

My favorite use of frost seeding is not for establishing perennial clover. It is for filling in bare spots or thickening a thin or aging clover field. In my area, at least, I have less weed issues when I fall plant perennial clover with a nurse crop of WR. It gives it a bit more head-start than frost seeding does. First, some clover will germinate in the fall when it is planted. Second, the WR will help combat weeds while the clover is establishing itself.

Thanks,

Jack

So without a secret de-coder ring ... frost seeding on snow is okay?

I mean at $3/lbs and 2-3 lbs acre about $10-$12 per acre ...

At
 
Spud - When I can get up to camp, there likely won't be much snow left. If there is, I just wondered if I can frost / snow seed on any that's left. That way I can scratch off another job from my list while I'm there. Kill 2 birds .......... I'll give it a shot. It's for refreshing a perennial clover plot of Ladino, Alice, and Kopu II white clovers. It's about 5 or 6 years old. Still plenty of clover in it, but I'd like to keep it thick.

I'm open to all suggestions, tips, & advice.
 
Spud - When I can get up to camp, there likely won't be much snow left. If there is, I just wondered if I can frost / snow seed on any that's left. That way I can scratch off another job from my list while I'm there. Kill 2 birds .......... I'll give it a shot. It's for refreshing a perennial clover plot of Ladino, Alice, and Kopu II white clovers. It's about 5 or 6 years old. Still plenty of clover in it, but I'd like to keep it thick.

I'm open to all suggestions, tips, & advice.

When there is no snow left, I wait for a early spring thaw. Ground surface is moist and will hold seed that is spread.

Next freeze up or snow the seed will sucked in. If you have heavy thatch cover that will create an issue.

At 5-6 years old what are you waiting for ... it won't grow in your shed ...
 
Never tried clover but like Spud says it must work. I know with switch grass the seed somehow warms in the sun light and starts sinking through the snow.

Bill ... I took your advice on SG seeding last spring. There was 4-5" of snow and was really hard to calibrate my hand spreader. Did 120 lbs of SG over ~20 acres. The snow made it really easy to adjust my hand spreading ... had great results with germination thing spring and will spread another 20 lbs this weekend ... thanks ... :emoji_thumbsup:
 
Spud - The seed isn't 5 - 6 years old ........ it's the plot !!! Seed is new. Thatch not a problem.

The soil will be plenty moist for sure. I just wondered if I broadcast over the plot, would any seed scattered on any snow that's left still settle in and hatch. I gather from what you've said, it should be OK ?? We'll def. have several frosts between now and mid-April.
 
Spud - The seed isn't 5 - 6 years old ........ it's the plot !!! Seed is new. Thatch not a problem.

The soil will be plenty moist for sure. I just wondered if I broadcast over the plot, would any seed scattered on any snow that's left still settle in and hatch. I gather from what you've said, it should be OK ?? We'll def. have several frosts between now and mid-April.

Life is all about risk ... most folks spend more on coffee in a week than they invest in clover.

My best advice is go take a long walk on your land, with your dog, kids, or significant other and spread that clover ... doubt you'll regret it ... Mother Nature works contrary to science offered ...

Funny thing is, after 20 plus years of this stuff, if I measured my joy by (%) of seed germination I would be very unhappy. Can't tell you how many experimentation I have had food plot wise that failed, where over seeding with clover & winter rye have made them a success.

PS ... I have never had a soil sample tested .... pretty sure some have an arrest warrant out for me ... :emoji_relaxed:
 
I too have had good success seeding into snow. Just keep in mind any areas that have water running across during melt will wash your seed away.
 
So without a secret de-coder ring ... frost seeding on snow is okay?

I mean at $3/lbs and 2-3 lbs acre about $10-$12 per acre ...

At

Every technique has advantages and disadvantages. Whether they are a good fit for any particular situation is something we need to decide. I'm spending about $5/lb and seeding at about 10 lbs/ac for clover. Initial planting cost is not an issue. I look at cost from both a time and money aspect over the lifecycle of my fields. Like anything, what works well in one situation may not work so well in another.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Spud - The seed isn't 5 - 6 years old ........ it's the plot !!! Seed is new. Thatch not a problem.

The soil will be plenty moist for sure. I just wondered if I broadcast over the plot, would any seed scattered on any snow that's left still settle in and hatch. I gather from what you've said, it should be OK ?? We'll def. have several frosts between now and mid-April.

You will be fine. Unless your field is on a slope, the biggest risk is birds eating the seed that is easy to see on the snow. The snow itself won't impact the seed or germination.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Bill ... I took your advice on SG seeding last spring. There was 4-5" of snow and was really hard to calibrate my hand spreader. Did 120 lbs of SG over ~20 acres. The snow made it really easy to adjust my hand spreading ... had great results with germination thing spring and will spread another 20 lbs this weekend ... thanks ... :emoji_thumbsup:

Paul Knox was the one who convinced me planting in snow made it easy to see seed distribution. I did my first 10 acres that way with a 4 wheeler in 8 inches of snow. No way I would have got the seed setting right without being able to see the seed.

Jack I get the fear of birds but my experience didn't give them a chance. Something about dark seed in the sun on white snow made them sink fast. No sand pipers in MO so I was good to go after a few hours. And it's hill ground. I'm still with Spud. Spread the clover and call it done.
 
Paul Knox was the one who convinced me planting in snow made it easy to see seed distribution. I did my first 10 acres that way with a 4 wheeler in 8 inches of snow. No way I would have got the seed setting right without being able to see the seed.

Jack I get the fear of birds but my experience didn't give them a chance. Something about dark seed in the sun on white snow made them sink fast. No sand pipers in MO so I was good to go after a few hours. And it's hill ground. I'm still with Spud. Spread the clover and call it done.

Part of the predation may depend on the type of snow. We often get sort of an icy crust on our slow whether it falls wet or dry. Unless you get too it before the crust, seed sits on top and is hit by sparrows, starlings, and a host of song birds here. As I said, I agree that snow is not a driving factor. Here it is more of a spring verses fall establishment decision. If I was going to spring plant perennial clover, I would likely frost seed it.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Just one more note for new folks: While most perennial white clover frost seeds well, not every type of clover does. Crimson (acts as a reseeding annual here) does not frost seed well as an example.

Thanks,

Jack
 
And the seed goes down .........

Thanks for the info guys.
 
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I just frost seeded yesterday, Had a gift card for sportsmans guide and i had a lot of trouble finding something i wanted from there, ended up getting a bag a alfa rack plus and broadcast it into last fall's cereal grain and pea plot, I know the clover will frost seed, not sure about the chicory and alfalfa, It is to rain all day today and get under freezing the next few nights, should be good.
 
I just got to the farm and may do this myself. My rye and oat plots have lots of bare ground showing. May be the perfect time.
 
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