Power Line Easement?

[mtholton]

Figured some of you may have experience in this area. Trying to assist my father in law. Long story short, they have a nice cabin in northern MN. Next door., a giant cabin is going in... This fall framing was under way last time I was up there. They excavated and blasted rock all summer (built into a large bedrock formation). For whatever reason, whatever they had planned for their electric didn't pan out (not sure the back story). Now they are approaching my father in law to get an easement through his land. As I understand it, it would run along the road and be a 20 foot easement. It would result in trees coming down and a change in the scenery obviously. He wants to be a good neighbor while also protecting his land/options. The new cabin owner lives out of state and hasn't contacted him about it. As I understand it, their contractor reached out to him along with the power company. He is headed up there tomorrow to meet just with the power company to understand his options. He is very much a handshake kind of guy and I just want to provide feedback (he is older and looking for some help I think) to him so he doesn't find himself in a situation with an out of state owner that has very (CEO of large investment company) deep pockets.

 

[PatinPA]

I ran into this situation on another property I was looking at before I bought mine. There was a road right of way but no utility easement. The lawyer I talked to said he was currently settling another case for a client that built his dream home on a piece of property then found out during construction that there was only a driveway ROW and no utility easement. I think the client ended up paying a large sum of money for the utility easement across the neighboring property.

Your FIL could probably request a good amount of money for it or maybe arrange another deal since it's the contractor. Maybe a pond excavation or food plot clearing? Kind of has owner at his mercy at this point. I don't like being a bad neighbor but I think he could ask for something reasonable.

 

[Native Hunter]

Power companies have the right to use eminent domain and put the power in even if permission isn't granted, but lots of them won't use the right on a distribution voltage type line like you are talking about - some will and some won't. If they do use the right, they have to compensate individuals that they cross. Also, some utilities are regulated by state public service commissions, and these regulators are all over the board on what they will require utilities to do. I've never worked in MN, so I don't know about up there.

Another thing to consider is underground primary distribution rather than overhead. Many utilities will do that and charge the home owner the difference between overhead and underground. This might be a way to grant permission to cross but not get a bunch of trees cut down. If the neighbor has enough money to build a "giant cabin" he should have enough to buy a little primary distribution underground to serve it.

 

[mtholton]

Power companies have the right to use eminent domain and put the power in even if permission isn't granted, but lots of them won't use the right on a distribution voltage type line like you are talking about - some will and some won't. If they do use the right, they have to compensate individuals that they cross. Also, some utilities are regulated by state public service commissions, and these regulators are all over the board on what they will require utilities to do. I've never worked in MN, so I don't know about up there.

Another thing to consider is underground primary distribution rather than overhead. Many utilities will do that and charge the home owner the difference between overhead and underground. This might be a way to grant permission to cross but not get a bunch of trees cut down. If the neighbor has enough money to build a "giant cabin" he should have enough to buy a little primary distribution underground to serve it.

Thank you for the insight. Good to know. Again, he's trying to balance being a good neighbor while also not ignoring his property value likely goes down at least a bit... Regarding underground, he is going to ask about that. The bedrock is at the surface or at most a few inches of soil... So not sure if they could get through that rock (they did get their basement into it after a full summer of blasting...) If anyone has gone down this path, how did you figure out the compensation?

 

[Native Hunter]

Thank you for the insight. Good to know. Again, he's trying to balance being a good neighbor while also not ignoring his property value likely goes down at least a bit... Regarding underground, he is going to ask about that. The bedrock is at the surface or at most a few inches of soil... So not sure if they could get through that rock (they did get their basement into it after a full summer of blasting...) If anyone has gone down this path, how did you figure out the compensation?

They can do directional boring through solid rock. It isn't cheap, but it is doable. It only takes one hole, and you pull in one cable. The cable is similar to the one shown in the link below. Actually, they can pull in both a conduit and cable through the single bored hole. That way, if the cable ever goes bad, they can pull in a new one through the conduit.

https://www.okonite.com/media//catalog/product/files/2-16.pdf

 

[Telemark]

Don't do it. It would probably impossible to remove once established.

Even asking for compensation might end up getting you in a jam because rich people can out lawyer you.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

Obviously I know nothing about this property but I am builder and when I was fresh out of college I mapped utility lines in rural Colorado, if someone wants power somewhere they can get it there. With that said why can’t they run it down this guy’s driveway? Sure they may have to extend the main line down the county road but most rural co-ops will do some of that for free and the owner picks up the balance. I would press hard for that

 

[swat1018]

I think I would request a meeting or call with the homeowner himself. I'd feel a lot better about helping a descent guy than some guy that is going to be a problem once he moves in. I think the least he could do is have the decency to speak to your family and explain the situation.

 

[Buckly]

Does your FIL have power to his cabin and the power ends right at his place so it would just be a continuation? One option I guess would be to run it on the other side of the road. If there’s no places over there then they wouldn’t be cutting trees down in front of his place.

 

[westonwhitetail]

Why cannot they extend it down the road right of way? Then run it on his property from the road?

 

[ruskbucks]

My friend has a utility easement on his land. He called the utility company and they told him that the easement was " only for the power company use. He checked into this because people were using this easement to get to 80 acres of mfl land behind him. He put up a unlocked gate over the easement with the power companies permission. He ended up getting a call from the town constable and said if he didn't take his gate down he would make it a easement for that property, even thou the 80s easement went thru the 40 next to his. They didn't use that one cause it was completely overgrown. They can be trouble.

 

[Bill]

I don't like most of them most of the time. But I have had some really good ones over the years that I do like.

Who am I talking about?

Lawyers.

He needs one...and if they come to a deal the cost of your FIL's lawyer should be covered.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I agree with Bill, let the lawyers discuss it, and get what your FIL wants out of the deal. I had to deal with a large utility company putting a power line in the middle of our field, their offer at the beginning was to pay us for only the square footage the power line poles were taking up. It was a couple years, after the power company installed the power lines through our land, but we got reimbursed rather well for the time. I think their original offer was to pay the going rate times .3 acres, which would have came out to $1000, we ended up with many times that. I were fighting for a lease, that they would need to pay annually, and we ended up settling.

 

[buckdeer1]

Make them pay for every tree they take down,theres no reason to sacrifice anything for a neighbor you don't know.He should have found all this out before buying.Remember he might move in a year but you are stuck with it,Make sure it favors you.

 

[Buckly]

My friend has a utility easement on his land. He called the utility company and they told him that the easement was " only for the power company use. He checked into this because people were using this easement to get to 80 acres of mfl land behind him. He put up a unlocked gate over the easement with the power companies permission. He ended up getting a call from the town constable and said if he didn't take his gate down he would make it a easement for that property, even thou the 80s easement went thru the 40 next to his. They didn't use that one cause it was completely overgrown. They can be trouble.

The place to look for answers to that would be the in the deed To the property. an easement is usually only for a specific person or company that allows them to maintain their equipment. It will all be in the deed. If it’s an easement my guess is nobody but, the landowner has rights there and the power company can access their stuff. Now, a right of way is different. The power company would have actually bought that land access and would own it That transaction would also be in the deed. Asking the power company and their just giving you a generic answer. I think the constable in this case is just blowing smoke. I’ve never heard of authority over private property like that. Most likely it’s his buddy’s using the access. LOL.

 

[Bill]

And don’t forget if they pay you today for what an acre goes for. Let’s say $1000 for reference. 20 years from now when someone sells it may be $20,000.

And your FIL took $1000. the loss was $19,000. To be a nice hand shake guy.

I like the lease idea even if it doesn’t work. It’s leverage.

 

[Tree Spud]

I don't like most of them most of the time. But I have had some really good ones over the years that I do like.

Who am I talking about?

Lawyers.

He needs one...and if they come to a deal the cost of your FIL's lawyer should be covered.

Bingo! This is it. Easements are far more complicated then people realize.

I have dealt with many easements and the issues associated with them. Easements can take many forms where you can allow certain activities or restrict others. All parties to the easements Keep in mind, if your FIL grants an easement to the neighbor, will be very hard to control his use of it. People feel that when they have an access easement, they can hunt it, run ATV's up & down, etc.

Essentially, by granting an easement, you lose control of the land. Enforcing easement rules is a real pain and LEO's won't really spend anytime on it.

Personally I would say no. This is the neighbors issue, not your FILs. If he does consider, talk to an attorney.

Remember that in situations like this, no good deed goes unpunished.

 

[goatman]

Depends who you are dealing with. I worked for a Rural Electric Coop and they would try and put stuff barely on private ground with a easment. So if they were ever required to move it for anything they would be compensated and would save the Coop members money. If a easement isn't signed then they could go to the township and get granted easement just off the property line. Like Native Hunter said underground primary can be done through rock. We leased a rock trencher one time and in conduit code at that time was only 18" deep. I would also ask them is this the only option to get there. Through your FIL might be the easiest but not the only way. Work a deal and let it go.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

One more thing, the person that is building it, may be just building it to sell and make money. So your FIL may decide to do the friendly neighbor thing, to find out all he did was made the rich neighbor more money on reselling the place to someone else, at your FIL expense.

 

[mtholton]

Thanks all for the feedback. He's driving up there right now to meet with them and I shared all this feedback. Nice to hear from many folks that have already been there/done that. Thanks!