PA fall plot

Vikingman1981

5 year old buck +
So I planted tall tine tubers, white clover and chicory in a SW PA food plot. Almost an acre. Didn't get a great kill with gly as it rained a few hours after one light application. Used ground hog max to till over a few days several times only I wasn't able to get it good and tilled. I was able to kill most of the native grass that was existing and some more wet spots tilled a few inches the rest just killed most of the existing grass. Never been farmed only mowed a few times a summer. Didn't get a soil sample either. Got seeds in the ground August 20th and got great rain immediately after and since then a perfect amount of rain. It's growing well and filling in nicely but I'm wondering with the information above what a good fertilizer is? I don't want to burn the plot with the wrong/too strong fertilizer. Is there a safe bet that might help boost the plot but won't burn it? I've attached a few pics from Sunday. food plot 1.jpgfood plot 3.jpgfood plot 4.jpgfood plot 5.jpg
 
I think it is usually best to fertilize at the same time as you are planting or just before planting. A $10 soil test would have told you exactly how much of what type of fertilizer you needed. You can still get soil test results within a few days - just have the lab email the test results to you. I have been using Waypoint Analytical Labs (same lab that does the soil tests for Mossy Oak Biologic and Whitetail Institute). I have always been emailed the results within 48 hours of them receiving my samples - but usually on the same day.

Why guess at fertilizer needs? Especially with the price of fertilizer this year. Get the soil test done so you know.
 
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A soil test is definitely the way to go, but I did the same thing as you last year (planted a brassica/clover plot without soil testing). About 4-6 weeks after planting, I added urea (46-0-0 fertilizer), which gave the brassicas a big bump in size. That is a pretty strong fertilizer and will burn if put on wet plants. I had to just watch the weather till I saw I could put it down with a rain expected the next night, as it does lose its potency quickly (it evaporates I think). But a good soil test will let you know if you already have a goodly amount of Nitrogen. Also it will not help the clover at all.
 
A soil test is definitely the way to go, but I did the same thing as you last year (planted a brassica/clover plot without soil testing). About 4-6 weeks after planting, I added urea (46-0-0 fertilizer), which gave the brassicas a big bump in size. That is a pretty strong fertilizer and will burn if put on wet plants. I had to just watch the weather till I saw I could put it down with a rain expected the next night, as it does lose its potency quickly (it evaporates I think). But a good soil test will let you know if you already have a goodly amount of Nitrogen. Also it will not help the clover at all.
So I would want to wait till everything is dry to apply with rain forecasted? Thanks for the replies
 
So I would want to wait till everything is dry to apply with rain forecasted? Thanks for the replies
Yes..last year I did it in the afternoon with rain forecast overnight and my brassicas blew up (gained 6+" in height in a few days)...I think you just need to avoid the AM dew and not broadcast it onto wet leaves..
 
Yes..last year I did it in the afternoon with rain forecast overnight and my brassicas blew up (gained 6+" in height in a few days)...I think you just need to avoid the AM dew and not broadcast it onto wet leaves..
OK thanks how did you come up with that mixture/fertilizer not knowing the PH?
 
OK thanks how did you come up with that mixture/fertilizer not knowing the PH?
so urea is just a big shot of nitrogen for the brassicas to use immediately..it will not stick around in the soil (it actually evaporates if there is no rain to help it get to the plants)...and I really only actually did it as a test based on recommendations found on this site...i used 1 50 lb bag per half acre...that mighta been alot but I wanted to give it a fair test...
heres what it looked like about 2 weeks after the shot of urea..it really made the leaves grow quickly and fill in alot of open spots...
1662480561074.png
 
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so urea is just a big shot of nitrogen for the brassicas to use immediately..it will not stick around in the soil (it actually evaporates if there is no rain to help it get to the plants)...and I really only actually did it as a test based on recommendations found on this site...i used 1 50 lb bag per half acre...that mighta been alot but I wanted to give it a fair test...
heres what it looked like about 2 weeks after the shot of urea..it really made the leaves grow quickly and fill in alot of open spots...
View attachment 45786
it looks beautiful! Thanks I'll post pics/results after a few more weeks but so far I'm happy
 
plot update hit it with 100lbs of 46-0-0 urea Sat afternoon with expected rain in the forecast. Boy did it come too! I sprayed some cleth on some new grasses emerging as well as some existing grass I wasn't successful in killing off. Hope the cleth kills it. If not it's growing well and I'm hoping the urea really blows up the plot! I'll keep you all updated.
 

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Why spray Gly to kill what's there and then till? I have often wondered this as I have seen quite a few do this? My way of thinking is that you have killed the competition now just your seeds should germinate once it rains. By tilling don't you introduce a bunch more seeds from the seed bank? My buddy does his plots this way. Any thoughts? I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems like an extra step? Or in this case did you till because the kill was weak? Just curious.

Chuck
 
Well I should have sprayed gly well ahead of when I did...and when I did it rained two hours later so I knew I wasn't going to kill the grass and had to till it. I didn't even get very deep but got enough for seed to soil contact. More and more people are doing and talking about no till I've noticed.
Why spray Gly to kill what's there and then till? I have often wondered this as I have seen quite a few do this? My way of thinking is that you have killed the competition now just your seeds should germinate once it rains. By tilling don't you introduce a bunch more seeds from the seed bank? My buddy does his plots this way. Any thoughts? I'm not saying it's wrong but it seems like an extra step? Or in this case did you till because the kill was weak? Just curious.

Chuck
 
Soil tests don’t really let you know the amount of nitrogen needed anyways. It is a transient molecule. If you always plant a legume, you should always have nitrogen in the field. If no legume was planted before brassicas, I would add nitrogen. This is the way I think about it.
 
Well I should have sprayed gly well ahead of when I did...and when I did it rained two hours later so I knew I wasn't going to kill the grass and had to till it. I didn't even get very deep but got enough for seed to soil contact. More and more people are doing and talking about no till I've noticed.
I think what he is saying is the tilling and the gly did the same thing. If you’re going to till, why add herbicide.
 
I think what he is saying is the tilling and the gly did the same thing. If you’re going to till, why add herbicide.
to make tilling far easier...I don't have a tractor just use my quad and ground hog max. That is why and far less weeds should grow this late in the season. Not none but less than if June/july
 
So its been just over a month since planted and a week since I got 100lbs of Urea down. The plot was dry when I spread the urea and it rained pretty decently that night/next day. I'm wondering if the brown/purple on some of the greens is burn from the urea? There is a lot of clover and chicory also growing but hard to see under all the turnip greens. Also the bulbs were about the size of a quarter...hoping they are able to double in size before a few hard frosts...I read they grow up to 40 degrees.
 

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Phosphorus deficient.
 
Well I'm sure the soil is a bit on the acidic side but read brassicas like slightly acidic soil. Hopefully it doesn't spread and become a bigger deal. I'm guessing deer might not enjoy eating those greens...
 
You are in AG town there my friend...... Good plan to plant something the farmers dont have around in the area... however, ask a local farmer if he can help you out. When he's discing in the srping, maybe he can run as pass for you. When he applies lime in the winter, maybe he can put some out for you. What he does may or may not match up what he is doing.

Also, you got bald spots? tos some winter rye and clover in there and sratch it up with a rake real quick or tamp it down.

That groundhog maxx can be real rough on ATV's....... I personally have never used one, but I have a set of two behind discs and a set of spring harrows.

Derek on here does pretty good with just and ATV. Check out his posts for some great info. He is also in PA, so what he does will work well by you.

Clethodim kills grasses. There are numerous plants out there that look like grass, but is not. My enemy in the western adirondacks of NY is mace sedge. Alot of folks have similar problems with it too.

Your weeds tell you alot about your soil. Try your best to ID what you have. Also, putting fertilizer makes the soil fertile for both your wanted plants and unwanted ones..... Even using gly can promote tougher to kill weeds.

That is a nice plot of young turnips. Perennials clovers usually start off pretty slow. I like to mix white and red together. That medium red gets a pretty good head start while the white / pink ones usually take off the next spring. Clover that doesn't grow is commonly caused by planting it too deep. If I am planting clover into tilled soil, I usually spread the seed that like more than a 1/2" sow depth. then take some sort of drag and do one pass to level out the deep crevices. Dry soil usually levels out pretty good with discing, but when it's clumpy with moisture, those deeper spots can easily put a seed 2 inch or more deep when you level it out. I bolted 3 pickup truck tires together with a bit of chain. One quick pass with that or something similar, then I spread the seeds that need less depth like turnips. Turnips I'd run another quick pass after seeding. Clover might get too deep even with that, so I would spread 1/2 of the clover with the turnips, then do another quick pass with something to mix it in. After that I would spread the remaining clover right ontop of the soil, then either cultipack it in, or use the ATV tires to pack down the soil with the clover right ontop.
 
What I do with turnips and clover is I add boron. I use borax soap. I either add it to lime or fertilizer or add it to my spray tank when spraying gly.

Boron is usually not in basic soil tests, but more advanced ones. I usally add 2lbs of borax soap per acre per year. If not mixed well, certain spots can get too much. Boron toxicity in soil is a corcern. Miracle grow includes it in their fertilizer. Usually, they just dont grow as good as they should if boron is low on turnips. Clover can be tough to visually tell.

I personally prefer to put 6-24-24 in my soil over any other fertilizer. The potassium and phosphurus can really help if your low. A low nitrogen soil condition can be helped with clover or other legumes. There are numerous beans and vetches that ass nitrogren to soil, not just clover. Many folk on here don't force nature. They grow stuff in rotation so you have some decent forage for your wildlife year round without putting alot of fertilizer or tillage to get there. I am adopting their ways more an more. But, I usually would grow a clover plot until it was a weedy mess in 2 or 3 years, then till it up late summer and plant something else as well as clover into that spot. Turnips, Oats, wheat, and winter peas were my usual goto. Sometimes just one of them and clover, sometimes a mix of all of them.

You can do this in one plot. Just do it in sections per year.
 
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