Ornamental Crabs?

[Brush farmer]

Howdy, first post here. I've read opinions both ways on ornamental crabapples. Some like them, others hate them. I've seen some of these crabs loaded with tiny apples and watched deer, turkey, and especially birds utilize them in suburb areas where the crabs are commonly planted.
I don't think they would be much to hunt deer over because the tiny apples are too light to fall until season is over. This is where I think their value lies, as a supply of stored winter food. I've got to believe that they are worthy of planting as something to get game through the hardest part of winter. Most varieties are bred to put on an abundant showy bloom that lasts longer than regular apples. This is bound to be a good thing for pollenating other apple trees as well as additional attraction and benefit to bees.
I've got some Prairie Fire and Sargent crabs planted distributed among small clusters of commercial apple varieties for the reasons above. The trees are still small, so it will be awhile before I can see any results for myself. I can say that the Prairie Fire does appear to be a hardy tree and has so far grown well in any location I've planted them. They are reported to have a high disease resistance and shouldn't require much pruning or other care. I figure they are worth a try and I can always try my hand at grafting if they fail to do what I hope.
Does anyone else share my opinion, or do you feel my reasoning is off?

 

[H20fwler]

I agree, that is exactly why I put a few of the "little" crabs out. Great pollinators and they are a benefit to other wildlife on the place.

And welcome to the forum!

 

[yoderjac]

Welcome to the forum. Deer seem to prefer just about any apple for browse. As far as fruit goes, they are a bit more particular. When deer don't have other options, there are few things they won't eat. The question really boils down to this. Will the tree I plant provide more better quality food that whatever grows naturally. I also like to think beyond deer. Many ornamental crabs are more beneficial to birds than deer.

As H20 says, crabapples can be great pollinators. I'm in zone 7 and I presume you are somewhere in the north since you concern is winter food. My approach is to simply grow a lot of crabapples and apples from seed. I plant these seedlings with no solid expectations as to fruiting characteristics. I then graft these high (about 5') but keep some nurse branches below the graft. This will give me a couple branches of "lottery" apples and the rest of the tree will produce as expected. I'll watch the fruiting of these lower branches over time. If I find some with characteristics I like, they will be the scion source for other trees.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Native Hunter]

Welcome to the forum.

I got a few ornamental crabs mixed in with some cheap trees I bought a few years ago. I bought these not knowing the varieties and just taking a chance on getting some good ones. I'm in the process of grafting these this year. They do have some pollination value, but I have other crabs that pollinate just as well and also make nice crabapples that deer will eat. So, for me, the ornamentals are just taking up space.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Do a search on crab apples and you will find some threads where this has been discussed some. Here are a few to start with
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/spring-2017-fruit-trees.6610/
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/sln-crab-apples-are-they-still-hanging.6927/
http://habitat-talk.com/index.php?threads/crabapples-for-grouse.7059/

The deer probably don't care too much about the small stuff, but for very late winter food for turkeys and other wildlife, yep one reason why I plant them. Easy winters they get left alone but in a long hard winter nothing makes it to spring by me.

 

[Brush farmer]

Thanks for the welcome guys. I'm in West Virginia. This past winter was mild, but the previous three had long spells of hard freeze that was rough on the game.
This was made especially bad because we didn't have an acorn crop in our area in those three years either. All three years myself and others found many dead yearling fawns after these freezes. The turkey population is lower now also. We got lucky on having an extremely mild winter this year. I'm hoping there will be a mast crop this fall.
The land I'm planting was partially pasture 100 years ago. When that section was allowed to grow back into trees it became dominated by sugar maples. There are some swaths that were allowed to grow in a more natural distribution of tree species with a few white, red, and chestnut oaks among them. Other areas are in first succession growth due to land slips and windstorms knocking out the big trees over the years.
The areas I've planted the trees are places that weren't making much food at all. There aren't enough oaks and can't be counted on to do that regularly. I'm working on planting hardwoods dispersed amount the maples where I can get some light to them as a long term improvement. I've also planted mulberry, persimmon, and pears.
One thing I have in abundance is pawpaws. They are all in small thickets, but there must be three acres of them total on the farm. Deer love them, but it's only a two week show before they're done for the year.

 

[ruskbuckss]

I think my parents have a Prairie Fire tree by their pond. I have seen deer feeding on the tiny crabs one winter. The Canadian geese love to eat them in the spring. Most off the apples don't drop, I have to shake the branches to get them to fall. I think your reasoning is spot on. I don't think you can have to much variety. They have a place for certain animals such as grouse and turkeys. The pollenating is a added bonus.

 

[Merle Hawggard]

I've got one that I've changed a few branches over to geneva. I'll still have the smaller crabs on part of the tree though.
A big welcome to you too!

Sent from my SM-S903VL using Tapatalk

 

[Brush farmer]

Rocksnstumps, thanks for the links. I should have found some of those myself but it seems everyone spells "Prairie Fire" differently.
Rusksbuckss, I'm glad you mention grouse. I was a boy just allowed to hunt by myself the last time I saw a grouse on the farm, which was 25 years or more ago. While I like to hunt deer, I hunt anything that I consider has a high enough population. I wouldn't mind seeing the grouse again.
I should add that I like to deer hunt, but I'm fanatical about spring gobblers. I hunt predators, small game, and sometimes harvest wild edibles. I like seeing a variety of critters when I'm out and about, even if their not what I'm after at the time.

 

[John-W-WI]

I like seeing a variety of critters when I'm out and about, even if their not what I'm after at the time.

Welcome to the forum and the addiction. Don't blame us when you spend more time and money than you planned on

 

[Brush farmer]

Welcome to the forum and the addiction. Don't blame us when you spend more time and money than you planned on

Too late! I got bitten by the bug about four years ago. I've planted around 25 trees every spring and fall since. (Both fruit trees & native nut trees) I've got a several broken up areas totaling about 3 acres planted in white clover. Seeing the instant change in wildlife utilization just from the clover and making spots for trees, brush piles, bedding areas, and improving trails just spurred me on. Some of my earliest pear plantings might bear this year. The only cure for the suspense is to working on doing more habitat improvements.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

We have several smaller-fruit crab apple trees at camp. The smallest fruits are about 1/4" to 3/8" dia. which seem to only get used by birds. The others are 1/2" to 3/4" dia. and deer definitely eat those as they drop. Deer also reach up on those crabs as high as they can to strip them off the trees. Each year we have circular paths worn in around the bigger-fruited " small " crabs. Grouse and turkeys also hit them.

Our larger-fruited crabs get fruit from 1" to 2 1/4" dia. and are edible. Chestnut crab, Trailman, Dolgo, Centennial, Whitney, All-Winter-Hangover, Violi's, Hyslop, Nova Scotia, and Winter Wildlife crabs are in the larger fruit group.

 

[Brush farmer]

The wild crabs I have seem to drop fairly early, but on good years they are loaded with 3/4"-1" green skinned apples that are hoovered up immediately. They produce even though some are getting pretty old. Grandad told me he remembered those trees being there when he was a young man.
I'm going to have some more tree planting opportunity replacing the ash trees that died out over winter. Some spots are along edges that will receive enough light to grow fruit trees. Some of the larger larger late dropping crabs would help round my collection.
Currently I have Kieffer & Moonglow pears. I almost forgot I planted a small thicket of wild plum. Apples are mostly Enterprise, NovaSpy & Roxbury Russet. There are a few misc varieties mixed in like Red Delicious. Being that I'm in WV I had to plant a couple Yellow Delicious.
I may take Merle's example and graft some into combinations to help distribute the varieties some.