More comprehensive List for blueKYstream and others interested

[Native Hunter]

blueKYstream seemed to appreciate the list I made recently, so I decided to update it and add some more information. I realized that I had failed to list some good varieties, and I also wanted to add the ones that I'm still evaluating. Finally, I think adding the list of failures would be good too.

Apples: The following will give you a pretty wide variety of drop times and good disease resistance. These are proven varieties in South Central KY without spraying.

• Liberty
• Priscilla
• Arkansas Black
• Dozier Crab
• Yates
• Betsey Deaton (minor CAR but great annual cropper))
• Black Limbertwig
• Black Oxford
• Horse
• Bevan’s Favorite
• Margret (aka Striped June)
• Callaway Crabapple (good DR and good Crops, but fruit doesn't drop without shaking tree)

Other Apples that could possibly work – need more time to evaluate

• Sundance (just recently planted – need time)
• Brushy Mtn Limbertwig (Has shown moderate FB but bears big apple crops. Still Watching.)
• Summer Champion (Excellent crop in 2018. Need to evaluate more) (no disease so far)
• Myers Royal Limbertwig (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Caney Fork Limbertwig (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Terry Winter (not great so far. Lots of apples rot on tree. Need more time to eval.)
• William’s Pride (only recently planted – need time)
• Eliza’s Choice Crabapple (only recently planted – need time)
• Franklin Cider (only recently planted - need time)
• Enterprise (only recently planted - need time)
• Freedom (only recently planted – need time)
• Several varieties from Northern Whitetail Crabs (only recently planted – need time)
• Roxbury Russet (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Dolgo Crab (slow bearing so far. DR looks good. Seedlings have a lot of variability)
• Old Fashioned Limbertwig (Was looking good, but had to move tree. Small crop last year. Looks DR and clean so far)

Apples to avoid in KY:

• Goldrush (Gets CAR bad)
• Winter King (aka Stark) premature fruit fall and rotting
• American Summer Pearmain (FB and other diseases bad)
• Mrs. Bryan (FB magnet)

For persimmons, I would suggest:

• Topworking any existing male trees that aren't too large with female scions that cover a long drop period. For instance, an early variety is Morris Burton and a late variety is Deer Magnet. This is the best thing you can do to get persimmons fast.
• You can also set seedlings and start having fruit on the females in about 10+ years if all goes well. You can also topwork the males.
• You can buy grafted persimmons from the following places, but they are high dollar: Wildlife Group, Stark Brothers, Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery, Chestnut Hills Nursery and England's Orchard. Check out their web sites. Look at England's first.

Don't forget Pears: Deer love them and they are easier to grow than apples in KY. They are also faster fruiting than persimmons. My pears look supermarket quality without any spraying, but you have to get the right ones. Grafted pears can also be bought for about 1/2 the price of a grafted persimmon. Recommended Varieties:

• Kieffer
• Moonglow
• Ayers
• Senator Clark
• Gallaway (minor Fireblight but good cropping.)
• Several different ones that Wildlife Group sells that they advertise as fireblight resistant. Read the descriptions on the web site and decide which you want. Just make sure they are disease resistant.

Pears under evaluation that look Promising – but need more time:

• Gate (super clean growing so far) (Planted in 14 and no fruit yet. Blooms Froze in 18)
• Mrs. Lanene (same info as Gate)
• Becton (super clean growing so far (Planted in 16)
• Hunter’s Choice (Planted in 16. Clean growing so far. WG says it can show FB but productive)
• Olympic Giant (Planted in 17. Need more time)

I also wanted to mention that we have some great local varieties that are not available commercially, so I have not included them in this list. Happy growing!!

 

[weekender21]

Thanks for the list! I'm happy to see I have a good many varieties you've recommended already planted and/or on order. Some by luck and others via research or recommendations from you and others. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the list for success/failure in western NC in a few years.

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks for the list! I'm happy to see I have a good many varieties you've recommended already planted and/or on order. Some by luck and others via research or recommendations from you and others. Hopefully I'll be able to contribute to the list for success/failure in western NC in a few years.

Yes, I think you have done a great job in choosing varieties. PS: I had to make some minor revisions to the list again this morning. I just keep thinking of other trees I have planted.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Thanks for your feedback Steve!
Your summers and high humanities are like ours in central Mo! I will use your list to add some more varieties for sure. Didn't you have good feedback on blacktwig as well?

I have a Sen Clark from WLG that died back major this yr due to FB. Not sure whether to try an nurse it back to health or just cut it down low and top work. It went from 12' healthy tree to 5' after cutting effected branches back. Tree put out allot of healthy growth down low. Kept asking myself "what would Steve do" lol
Crazy thing is I have a barlett 20ft from it that is disease free. I know this deifies logic. Who knows??!!

I have the following coming in March that I am anxious to set. Tried to get a black oxford for this season but no luck. Guess I will have to order more trees next yr;)
Blacktwig
Black limbertwig
Old fashion limbertwig
Terry Winter
Keener
Hewes crab

So far in Mo I have had best luck with Arkansas Black & Liberty. Couple that really took off this yr that look promising are redfree and kinnards choice. Kinnards has a very upright growing stature that is pretty cool. Lastly Honey Crisp suck. I should have listened to feed back on that one lol

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Native - Thanks for the info !! Great variety of things you have growing there. - - ? - Is Yates an annual cropper ?? and How does it drop ??

I'd like to try a Yates, but all the vendors of it seem to be more southern, where FB is more of a common occurrence. I'm worried about introducing FB to my camp. ( we haven't seen it there, thank God !! ) I don't know how a nursery can screen for it, to prevent it's spread. Even if Yates isn't affected by FB, the bacteria that causes it could travel on a shipped tree, possibly. From all you & ( I believe ) Dan Wombles have posted, it would be a great apple to have for wildlife.

I'll add this - like you and Jordan Selsor - our Arkansas Black is growing really well and has a nice shape on it's own. No problems with it. It's a good tree for us. FWIW.

Thanks for all the pix and info you put on here. You have a clinic / museum of sorts there for many different plants & plot / habitat crops. Much appreciated info !! Please say "Hello" to Dad for us.

 

[Native Hunter]

Thanks for your feedback Steve!
Your summers and high humanities are like ours in central Mo! I will use your list to add some more varieties for sure. Didn't you have good feedback on blacktwig as well?

I have a Sen Clark from WLG that died back major this yr due to FB. Not sure whether to try an nurse it back to health or just cut it down low and top work. It went from 12' healthy tree to 5' after cutting effected branches back. Tree put out allot of healthy growth down low. Kept asking myself "what would Steve do" lol
Crazy thing is I have a barlett 20ft from it that is disease free. I know this deifies logic. Who knows??!!

I have the following coming in March that I am anxious to set. Tried to get a black oxford for this season but no luck. Guess I will have to order more trees next yr;)
Blacktwig
Black limbertwig
Old fashion limbertwig
Terry Winter
Keener
Hewes crab

So far in Mo I have had best luck with Arkansas Black & Liberty. Couple that really took off this yr that look promising are redfree and kinnards choice. Kinnards has a very upright growing stature that is pretty cool. Lastly Honey Crisp suck. I should have listened to feed back on that one lol

Jordan, I don't have any feedback on Blacktwig. I had one that got off to a bad start (probably my fault) and it hasn't done anything yet.

That is strange about the Bartlett and Sen Clark. My Sen Clark has given me two or three good crops so far and not shown any FB. My neighbor used to have a Bartlett and it looked horrible most years - although it still made several pears. I Think when a tree starts flowering too early it is a bad thing. FB enters through flowers, and a young tree can't take it like an old tree can. This is one of the pitfalls of dwarfing and semidwarfing rootstocks on FB prone cultivars in locations like ours.

Please keep me posted on what works and doesn't work for you. It will be good for us to compare our experiences.

 

[Native Hunter]

Native - Thanks for the info !! Great variety of things you have growing there. - - ? - Is Yates an annual cropper ?? and How does it drop ??

I'd like to try a Yates, but all the vendors of it seem to be more southern, where FB is more of a common occurrence. I'm worried about introducing FB to my camp. ( we haven't seen it there, thank God !! ) I don't know how a nursery can screen for it, to prevent it's spread. Even if Yates isn't affected by FB, the bacteria that causes it could travel on a shipped tree, possibly. From all you & ( I believe ) Dan Wombles have posted, it would be a great apple to have for wildlife.

I'll add this - like you and Jordan Selsor - our Arkansas Black is growing really well and has a nice shape on it's own. No problems with it. It's a good tree for us. FWIW.

Thanks for all the pix and info you put on here. You have a clinic / museum of sorts there for many different plants & plot / habitat crops. Much appreciated info !! Please say "Hello" to Dad for us.

Bows, Yates has been an annual cropper for me. The last two years have been excellent crops, and the year before that wasn't bad. Thanks for your feedback on Arkansas Black, and I will tell Dad hello for you. We got to do one of his favorite things together recently - break in a new high powered rifle. I'm going to give a report on it soon in another thread.

 

[Mortenson]

NH, I've been wanting to try those late dropping Gate, Ms Laneene, and Gilmer Christmas pears from the Wildlife Group. Do you think they'd still be late dropping in IL compared to where they come from in Bama? Or would I be better off sticking with traditional Kieffers, Ayers and Seckels up here, and just don't even risk southern pears? I wonder if a December dropper would become an November dropper for me, or more like an Aug/Sept.

 

[Native Hunter]

NH, I've been wanting to try those late dropping Gate, Ms Laneene, and Gilmer Christmas pears from the Wildlife Group. Do you think they'd still be late dropping in IL compared to where they come from in Bama? Or would I be better off sticking with traditional Kieffers, Ayers and Seckels up here, and just don't even risk southern pears? I wonder if a December dropper would become an November dropper for me, or more like an Aug/Sept.

You've asked a question that I've not had much luck finding an answer for, but I should be able to answer better in coming years. I get mixed reports on what happens when a cultivar is moved to a different location. Under some circumstances, the drop times change very little but sometimes they do change quite a bit.

I can't explain why there can be up to 20 days difference in crops ripening between Eastern and Western KY, but according to the University of KY, that can be the case. However, in some years it doesn't happen that way. Also, I noticed that this year, all of my chestnuts were 2 weeks later than last year. I can't explain this.

I have grafted some wild apple scions that a guy from New York gave to me. I'm getting incredible vegetative growth from these, and hope to see fruit within the next couple of years. When that happens, he and I can exchange information and see how much difference the locations make in drop time. I can do the same thing with the late WG pears that you mentioned as soon as they start fruiting. I can tell you that Kieffer and Galloway are about the same for me as they list in the catalog. I think Senator Clark is too, but need to watch it closer.

I asked the guy at Northern Whitetail Crabs about this. He couldn't really answer the question either. He did say that he felt extreme cold temps were what caused some apples to turn loose and fall quicker than normal. If that really is the case, I wonder if the NW Crabs that I have planted will even turn loose in KY?? That's why I don't recommend anything until I see it happen with my own eyes.

I suggest talking to Allen at WG about the cold tolerance. He should be able to give you some feedback on that based on past sales to northern buyers. Good luck, and if I can ever reach any more substantial conclusions on your questions, I will let you know.

 

[blueKYstream]

Very useful information Native Hunter! I'm glad you posted it! I am putting together a list to order. I'm probably going to order from Wildlife Group. I'm going to try to get a better idea of exactly how many I need while rabbit hunting Saturday before ordering, so I can figure out not only the number of trees but how many varieties I can get. I'm thinking about 20 trees now though in 2-3 spots.

Do you notice a big preference from your deer towards apples vs pears or vice versa? I want to do both, but I'm kinda thinking sticking with apples OR pears might be better with a relatively low number of trees. The other thing I'm wondering with a low number of trees is if you think it might be better to get all late dropping trees as opposed to dropping over the course of the hunting season. If going the route of getting trees dropping all hunting season, I'm guessing only one or two trees with my setup with drop at any given time. I'm not sure if that's enough to be a "draw" for deer. Maybe I'm over analyzing it though.

 

[Native Hunter]

Very useful information Native Hunter! I'm glad you posted it! I am putting together a list to order. I'm probably going to order from Wildlife Group. I'm going to try to get a better idea of exactly how many I need while rabbit hunting Saturday before ordering, so I can figure out not only the number of trees but how many varieties I can get. I'm thinking about 20 trees now though in 2-3 spots.

Do you notice a big preference from your deer towards apples vs pears or vice versa? I want to do both, but I'm kinda thinking sticking with apples OR pears might be better with a relatively low number of trees. The other thing I'm wondering with a low number of trees is if you think it might be better to get all late dropping trees as opposed to dropping over the course of the hunting season. If going the route of getting trees dropping all hunting season, I'm guessing only one or two trees with my setup with drop at any given time. I'm not sure if that's enough to be a "draw" for deer. Maybe I'm over analyzing it though.

With only a few trees I think sticking with late droppers would be wise. You can always come back later and add early droppers if the fruit trees are something that you like doing. I don't notice any preference between apples and pears. They like both. I would plant both, because in some years, one species will get the blooms frozen out in the spring, but the other will be okay. In my area, apples are more likely to get frozen out than pears, but it can happen the other way.

One or two trees dropping fruit can be a draw to deer for quite a distance. It can make them change their travel pattern and might make a difference for you in seeing the deer you are after. Fruit trees are not magic, but they can be a significant draw.

 

[Telemark]

Winter King (aka Stark) premature fruit fall and rottin

Can you tell me more about this apple? Sounds like it might be a good option for deer. When do the apples drop? When do they ripen? Do all the apples drop?

 

[Native Hunter]

Can you tell me more about this apple? Sounds like it might be a good option for deer. When do the apples drop? When do they ripen? Do all the apples drop?

Yes, I can tell you quite a bit about it. It originated in Ohio around 1869 and was popular in that area until it fell into obscurity. It has a reputation for being fireblight prone, although I have only seen it moderately affected. My problem with the tree is that the apples fall off the tree while still green, before they make it to maturity. I would never recommend this tree to anyone who doesn't spray. I've given it many years to work out its problems, and it is one of two trees I planted that I have never eaten an apple from. It's on my list to topwork to another variety - maybe this spring.

This was one of the first trees I planted when I really got into apples a few years ago. I went on the recommendation of a nursery, and that was a mistake. They were recommending what they had left and wanted to get rid of. I've learned a lot of lessons since that time. Forget this tree and look at something else.

Best wishes.

 

[Telemark]

Ok thanks. Any other apples you know of that drop fruit late Sept. to early Oct.?

 

[Native Hunter]

Ok thanks. Any other apples you know of that drop fruit late Sept. to early Oct.?

There are many good apples that drop fruit during that time period. The hard part for me has been finding good, DR apples that drop in November, which I am more interested in.

I can't recall where you are located, but I suggest asking some of the apple growers on this forum who are relatively close to you. You have a better chance of getting a good answer. The drop times can shift from place to place, and asking someone near to you helps to eliminate this problem. I've noticed that many of the apples I grow (such as Liberty) drop earlier for me than they do for our forum member in the north.

Good Luck - you should find many good choices for that time period. I suggest starting a thread and letting everyone know your location. You will get some good responses.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Can you elaborate any more on the Terry? Apples just wont fall off the tree? Is it a firm apple that lasts well on the ground?

 

[Native Hunter]

Can you elaborate any more on the Terry? Apples just wont fall off the tree? Is it a firm apple that lasts well on the ground?

Jordan, as I indicated in my original post, I haven't reached a final conclusion on Terry Winter yet. When a tree starts fruiting, it sometimes takes a couple of years before it gets the kinks worked out and develops into a normal pattern. Last year was the first year it fruited and the crop was light. This year it was a bigger crop - maybe 50 apples or so. I started noticing sometime in early November that 25% of the apples had started to rot while hanging on the tree - about the time that they should begin slowly falling.

A few good looking apples eventually fell to the ground, but a big part of the rotting apples were still hanging on my tree when I looked this weekend. I would say that there are 20 apples hanging on that tree right now, and if you mashed one, it would just be a rotten mess. It's not uncommon to see an occasional apple or two like this on other cultivars, but what worries me about TW is that is was a high percentage of the crop.

As stated earlier, I'm not forming an opinion yet. I want to watch the tree longer and see if the problems continue. If they do, I will write the tree off as not good for me. However, I think there is a good chance that this will change as the tree matures more. The good news so far is that I have seen no fireblight, CAR, Scab or other problems.

 

[Jordan Selsor]

Jordan, as I indicated in my original post, I haven't reached a final conclusion on Terry Winter yet. When a tree starts fruiting, it sometimes takes a couple of years before it gets the kinks worked out and develops into a normal pattern. Last year was the first year it fruited and the crop was light. This year it was a bigger crop - maybe 50 apples or so. I started noticing sometime in early November that 25% of the apples had started to rot while hanging on the tree - about the time that they should begin slowly falling.

A few good looking apples eventually fell to the ground, but a big part of the rotting apples were still hanging on my tree when I looked this weekend. I would say that there are 20 apples hanging on that tree right now, and if you mashed one, it would just be a rotten mess. It's not uncommon to see an occasional apple or two like this on other cultivars, but what worries me about TW is that is was a high percentage of the crop.

As stated earlier, I'm not forming an opinion yet. I want to watch the tree longer and see if the problems continue. If they do, I will write the tree off as not good for me. However, I think there is a good chance that this will change as the tree matures more. The good news so far is that I have seen no fireblight, CAR, Scab or other problems.

Thanks Steve
I have one on order from Century Farms. I considered swapping it our for another variety but will give it a try I guess

 

[Benja]

blueKYstream seemed to appreciate the list I made recently, so I decided to update it and add some more information. I realized that I had failed to list some good varieties, and I also wanted to add the ones that I'm still evaluating. Finally, I think adding the list of failures would be good too.

Apples: The following will give you a pretty wide variety of drop times and good disease resistance. These are proven varieties in South Central KY without spraying.

• Liberty
• Priscilla
• Arkansas Black
• Dozier Crab
• Yates
• Betsey Deaton (minor CAR but great annual cropper))
• Black Limbertwig
• Black Oxford
• Horse
• Bevan’s Favorite
• Margret (aka Striped June)
• Callaway Crabapple (good DR and good Crops, but fruit doesn't drop without shaking tree)

Other Apples that could possibly work – need more time to evaluate

• Sundance (just recently planted – need time)
• Brushy Mtn Limbertwig (Has shown moderate FB but bears big apple crops. Still Watching.)
• Summer Champion (Excellent crop in 2018. Need to evaluate more) (no disease so far)
• Myers Royal Limbertwig (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Caney Fork Limbertwig (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Terry Winter (not great so far. Lots of apples rot on tree. Need more time to eval.)
• William’s Pride (only recently planted – need time)
• Eliza’s Choice Crabapple (only recently planted – need time)
• Franklin Cider (only recently planted - need time)
• Enterprise (only recently planted - need time)
• Freedom (only recently planted – need time)
• Several varieties from Northern Whitetail Crabs (only recently planted – need time)
• Roxbury Russet (slow bearing so far. DR looks good)
• Dolgo Crab (slow bearing so far. DR looks good. Seedlings have a lot of variability)
• Old Fashioned Limbertwig (Was looking good, but had to move tree. Small crop last year. Looks DR and clean so far)

Apples to avoid in KY:

• Goldrush (Gets CAR bad)
• Winter King (aka Stark) premature fruit fall and rotting
• American Summer Pearmain (FB and other diseases bad)
• Mrs. Bryan (FB magnet)

For persimmons, I would suggest:

• Topworking any existing male trees that aren't too large with female scions that cover a long drop period. For instance, an early variety is Morris Burton and a late variety is Deer Magnet. This is the best thing you can do to get persimmons fast.
• You can also set seedlings and start having fruit on the females in about 10+ years if all goes well. You can also topwork the males.
• You can buy grafted persimmons from the following places, but they are high dollar: Wildlife Group, Stark Brothers, Nolin River Nut Tree Nursery, Chestnut Hills Nursery and England's Orchard. Check out their web sites. Look at England's first.

Don't forget Pears: Deer love them and they are easier to grow than apples in KY. They are also faster fruiting than persimmons. My pears look supermarket quality without any spraying, but you have to get the right ones. Grafted pears can also be bought for about 1/2 the price of a grafted persimmon. Recommended Varieties:

• Kieffer
• Moonglow
• Ayers
• Senator Clark
• Gallaway (minor Fireblight but good cropping.)
• Several different ones that Wildlife Group sells that they advertise as fireblight resistant. Read the descriptions on the web site and decide which you want. Just make sure they are disease resistant.

Pears under evaluation that look Promising – but need more time:

• Gate (super clean growing so far) (Planted in 14 and no fruit yet. Blooms Froze in 18)
• Mrs. Lanene (same info as Gate)
• Becton (super clean growing so far (Planted in 16)
• Hunter’s Choice (Planted in 16. Clean growing so far. WG says it can show FB but productive)
• Olympic Giant (Planted in 17. Need more time)

I also wanted to mention that we have some great local varieties that are not available commercially, so I have not included them in this list. Happy growing!!

Thank you for this useful list. Is that "do not plant in KY" list of apples the complete list of apples you've planted and consider to be failures? The reason I ask is that I have 10 young apple trees in my home orchard. I intend to graft additional varieties onto these ten trees. GoldRush was high on my list of future apples (also Stark calls it "Organic growers choice"), but you have rejected it for its CAR susceptibility. Do you have additional apples you've had experience with that you won't plant again besides the 4 in this list?

 

[Native Hunter]

Thank you for this useful list. Is that "do not plant in KY" list of apples the complete list of apples you've planted and consider to be failures? The reason I ask is that I have 10 young apple trees in my home orchard. I intend to graft additional varieties onto these ten trees. GoldRush was high on my list of future apples (also Stark calls it "Organic growers choice"), but you have rejected it for its CAR susceptibility. Do you have additional apples you've had experience with that you won't plant again besides the 4 in this list?

I'm glad you find the list useful.

I have a young Wolf River that I plan on topworking this spring. Two years ago I got reports of extreme fireblight on that cultivar from three different people who I have a lot of faith in. Because of that, I'm going to just nip the problem in the bud before it ever starts for me. Keep in mind that you won't see fireblight on a young tree 99% of the time until the tree flowers.

There are some local apples I'm aware of that I wouldn't plant myself, but not anything you would run into commercially.

My list is going to be evolving and I will keep updating it from time to time on this forum. For instance, I almost went ahead and put Summer Champion in the acceptable category. It has not shown any disease and had an excellent crop in 2018. If it keeps looking good, it will get moved to the good list. There will likely be others that go to the bad list soon. I'm also adding some new varieties this year, so this will be constantly evolving. But, I will only be adding cultivars that I feel will have a good chance of working.

One thing for sure - if you get a report of someone having a bad experience with an apple in another state - it will probably happen in KY as well. So, only experiment with what you get good reports on.