Lessons learned

[Bowsnbucks]

Wasn't sure where to put this topic.
For any & all on here, and for lurkers who may be checking in / reading the info here ..........
What lessons have we learned since we began planting habitat trees / shrubs, fruit trees, and food plots?? (If I could do it again, I'd ........ )

I'll start. I'd have started planting things sooner!! Our camp wasted good years when we could have had things growing for food and cover. I also should have planted some of our apple trees further away from pine trees - too much shade & competition for nutrients. We also COULD HAVE been planting food plots much earlier - which, once planted - began our uptick in deer numbers & quality / size. Probably our biggest waste of time & money was putting black corrugated plastic drain-pipe material around newly planted apple trees 15 years earlier. In our haste to "protect" our newly planted apple trees from mice / voles chewing the bark off in winter - we unknowingly built luxurious "hotels" for them to build nests in and feast on our new trees all winter. Lost every tree. Money, labor, a few years growth - wasted. Aluminum window screen from that day forward!!! No more "mouse / vole hotels."

We learned to NOT plant soybeans at our camp. Not enough acres, too many deer ate them to the ground. 5" tall at best before deer got every bit of green.

Also - think over and consider how certain trees / shrubs will grow and thrive (or NOT) in the locations we chose for them. We planted a few things in the shade of oak & maple trees that needed more sunlight, or were in danger of being crushed if those big oak & maple trees lose big limbs or go down in a storm. We DID change our planting habits after the first couple years - learning more (lots on this forum!!) & planning ahead to minimize mistakes.

 

[Troubles Trees]

For me it would be getting a soil test much earlier, I simply didn't understand how important it would end up being.

Second would be trying mass planting to overcompensate losses vs planting less and protecting it.

 

[SD51555]

I've banged this drum plenty of times before, but here's a simple repeat:

If you're fortunate enough to have a property already covered in trees and shrubs, spend your time maximizing what you have on hand before you begin adding. It'll come 100x faster than anything introduced. Addition by subtraction.

 

[Howboutthemdawgs]

I’ll second beans. I have a pic of beans coming up and literally wiped out the next day on 2 acres.

But another thing is if looking at a property and it’s covered in invasives you will have your hands full for life. I just sold a property that was covered in autumn olive. No matter what I did I could not get ride of the existing ones and if I opened up any sunlight they would come in with a vengeance. It was so depressing. I would honestly pass if I came up against that again.

Another, a 1/4 acre no till plot isn’t regenerative ag. Dont get stuck in the weeds on soil health in a small kill plot. Just get something attractive to come up. I’m all for no till soil health on scale…but I think people have some crappy plots worry about the wrong thing on micro plots like that.

 

[Fair oak]

Don’t go planting a food plot on a logging deck just because it’s open and convenient. More often than not they will be in the wrong spots, compacted soil, and do more harm then good. Think the locations through thoroughly!

 

[SwampCat]

I wish I would have planted more fruit trees earlier. I dont ever get fruit off the older ones I have because the coons get it all - but I like the trees. I dont care if a deer ever gets an apple - but I would like to get one.

Dont plant trees in an area you dont have easily availabe water. You cant haul enough water to save them if you only get one rain between Jun 11 and the end of Oct.

Simple planting. Plots are a combination between wheat and perennial clover. Hogs and deer density finally convinced me. Things like soybeans, corn, sunflowers, brassicas, peas, etc, bring no more deer in to my place than wheat and perennial clover - and much easier and quicker and cheaper to plant. No fertilizer.

I have spent a lot of time and effort trying to establish and care for nwsg. I see absolutely no benefit to wildlife - on my place.

At least on my ground, plant the basics for doves - they will either be there or they wont. If they choose not to be there, 1000 lbs of wheat on bare ground wont make a difference.

Dont plant pines in flooding bottom ground or calcareous soil.

 

[willy]

I'd buy fruit tree root stock and graft all my own. It's cheaper, a lot more fun, and easy to do. I may be 2 years behind with fruit production but 2 years really isn't much in the scheme of things.

 

[yoderjac]

Wasn't sure where to put this topic.
For any & all on here, and for lurkers who may be checking in / reading the info here ..........
What lessons have we learned since we began planting habitat trees / shrubs, fruit trees, and food plots?? (If I could do it again, I'd ........ )

I'll start. I'd have started planting things sooner!! Our camp wasted good years when we could have had things growing for food and cover. I also should have planted some of our apple trees further away from pine trees - too much shade & competition for nutrients. We also COULD HAVE been planting food plots much earlier - which, once planted - began our uptick in deer numbers & quality / size. Probably our biggest waste of time & money was putting black corrugated plastic drain-pipe material around newly planted apple trees 15 years earlier. In our haste to "protect" our newly planted apple trees from mice / voles chewing the bark off in winter - we unknowingly built luxurious "hotels" for them to build nests in and feast on our new trees all winter. Lost every tree. Money, labor, a few years growth - wasted. Aluminum window screen from that day forward!!! No more "mouse / vole hotels."

We learned to NOT plant soybeans at our camp. Not enough acres, too many deer ate them to the ground. 5" tall at best before deer got every bit of green.

Also - think over and consider how certain trees / shrubs will grow and thrive (or NOT) in the locations we chose for them. We planted a few things in the shade of oak & maple trees that needed more sunlight, or were in danger of being crushed if those big oak & maple trees lose big limbs or go down in a storm. We DID change our planting habits after the first couple years - learning more (lots on this forum!!) & planning ahead to minimize mistakes.

Kinda funny and it shows how different situations require different approaches., some of mistakes are near opposite. I was way too quick to start food plots. Our deer really needed them and I dove in even before the deal closed on the property. I was so focused on the doing part, I spent to little time on the learning and planning part. I ended up setting us back many years by destroying what I had by using a 2-bottm plow and tiller. As I look back, I want to kick myself in the pants for not learning more about soils and OM and such.

I've had lots of little mistakes. Things like planting a particular crop that did not work well, but that is just a normal part of the learning process.

For me, lessons learned that apply broadly are:

1) Establish achievable and measurable objectives, don't try to do QDM on a property that has insufficient scale.
2) Learn about different approaches and figure out what methods work best in your situation before spending money on equipment. (My plow is not a rusty lawn decoration).
3) Spend time learning your property and how deer relate to it before making habitat changes. Unless you understand how deer relate, you may have unintended consequences from habitat "improvements".
4) Learn about the native vegetation in your area. I removed native trees, shrubs, and "weeds" that were great deer food before I knew better.
5) What looks good to man is generally not good for wildlife. In the early days, I focused on farm quality monocultures with high yield, high input food plots and thought anything I didn't plant was a weed. Took way to long for me to learn better.
6) This generally applies to folks trying to do QDM on scale, but habitat improvement that are good for deer, can make them much harder to hunt.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[ChrisA]

Mine is similar to Troubles…….you are better off planting smaller numbers of trees and shrub and ensuring you do all the mulching, weed mats, and caging needed, without cutting corners. When I first got my property I opted for numbers and took the old “some will survive” approach. None ever did and I would be way further ahead had I known this sooner.

I think some of what I am learning from this group now is the limits of what my improvements can do on a property this size and to have realistic expectations. This is helpful and has made me not get so worked up over marginal results in certain instances.

 

[Teeder]

I'm primarily an oak tree planter.
A couple rambling thoughts.
I go along with what was said above, you're much better off planting fewer trees that you take care of than 1000's that you don't.
Planting in a spot that doesn't get full sun, will result in poor growth. It takes more sun than you think. I planted in some old logging areas and there still wasn't enough light.
Release the good trees that you already have.
Plant what you don't have, but be sure it's appropriate for your area. I tried "forcing" some swamp chestnut, shumard and nuttall oaks in here, and they aren't doing well. ( hybrids of these are doing better)
I wish I would have planted more fruit earlier.
I wish I would have learned how to graft earlier (my first try will be this spring).

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Right now I am wishing I would have bought the neighbor land when it went up for sale 5 years ago.
Probably should have spread out my apple trees a little more.
Probably should have researched and planted more late blooming, and late hanging apples. I tend to get hit with a late frost quite often. Also most of my deer apples are gone before my hunting season starts. There are a few people apples that would still be hanging, but those are my favorite as well, and well since I planted them, I get them.

 

[Jerry-B-WI]

I wish I would have put acreage in MFL sooner. I would have enjoyed the tax advantage for more years and could have done more habitat improvement earlier and in stages. Could have gotten food plots in earlier and enjoyed them longer.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I've banged this drum plenty of times before, but here's a simple repeat:

I wasn't sure if anyone / who had maybe started a thread on this subject ......... and without going back through years of pages - I thought I'd open a thread for any of us long-timers, and especially newcomers & lurkers. Thanks, SD, for "banging the drum" once more. Your advice is well-taken!!!

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Keep 'em coming men!!! All sorts of things we can learn from. What one of us doesn't think of .......... another guy WILL.

 

[j-bird]

little changes = little rewards. By this, I mean I feared 2 big changes that I knew I needed, but I avoided them and pushed them off. Now, I kick myself in the behind for it. The 2 biggest improvements I have made are having a timber harvest (because I didn't understand how cutting trees led to better habitat) and my switchgrass planting and CRP enrollment (for cover - which I still badly lack). These two things have helped me more than any mineral sites, fruit trees, food plots and the like. This helped me address the lowest hole in my "habitat bucket".

Hunt smarter....not harder. This took me a while to figure out as well. I felt that if I wanted to see and kill more deer it meant I needed to hunt more. WRONG! I actually needed to hunt less, but hunt smarter. I was educating my deer way too early in the season. Now I try to hunt only the edges, I consider my access far more than ever before AND I hunt only when I know the deer I am after are going to be moving. My place doesn't hold mature bucks....so there is no point in hunting for them until about Halloween. So for the most part....I stay home. No point in educating the does....

Action without a plan is chaos. You can't just put plots where they are easy, or put trees or the like wherever YOU want because it's easy for YOU. It doesn't work that way. You need a solid evaluation of the property and what you have and what you don't. Like was mentioned. Work WITH what you have and put some thought into how all these pieces are to work together. If you don't, you just create more problems than you solve...and often spend even more time and money doing it again later...where you should have done it in the first place!

Our properties are not "islands" - so many folks view only their property and act as if the deer are NEVER going to leave it. That is a pipe dream. You have to understand how deer in your area beyond your property move and why. I realize many folks watch the shows on TV and the like, but those properties are HUGE and intensively managed to a level most of us simply can not do. There is no way you can manage a 100 acre parcel like you would a 1,000 acres or even 10,000 acres. My property doesn't hold mature bucks and never will (because I lack the suitable cover). As such I manage for does. Keep the ladies happy and the bucks will come. It's not ideal, but it's the cards I am dealt and instead of beating my head against the wall....I have embraced this limitation and have had more enjoyment and success because of it. The old saying is "life is easier if you plow around the stump".

Simplest habitat tools you need: saw, match, plow & gun. Manage with these 4 tools to whatever degree you wish, but it's really all you need.

 

[TreeDaddy]

" If you can grow it,you probably dont need it........If you need it,you probably cant grow it"

bill

 

[Wind Gypsy]

" If you can grow it,you probably dont need it........If you need it,you probably cant grow it"

bill

Maybe i'm just dense but what is the intended take away from that? What you need is already there so work with it?

 

[yoderjac]

Maybe i'm just dense but what is the intended take away from that? What you need is already there so work with it?

In general, it speaks to the limits of your dirt and climate. While there are things you can do to improve habitat for deer, if you look at all the hype out there, one would think you can do miracles. It was one of the things I was trying to get at with establishing realistic objectives. For example, if you live on great soil in a hospitable climate, it will grow and abundance of native foods and you may not need the many things you can grow easily because the food base is largely covered. On the other side of the coin, on marginal soils in a challenging climate, food may be a limiting factor, but you have a tough time growing what you need. There are places that will produce an abundance of big bucks even if you do most things wrong, and other places where folks will struggle to improve things even with a big budget. So, when I look back at my history, I see a few gems when something we did had a good payoff, but for the most part, I tried many things that either failed or made little difference.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Maybe i'm just dense but what is the intended take away from that? What you need is already there so work with it?

Hopefully, a chuckle

Its in quotation because i lifted it from a post on another forum

I do admit to feeling this way sometimes after a planting failure

bill

 

[Garrett S]

In general, it speaks to the limits of your dirt and climate. While there are things you can do to improve habitat for deer, if you look at all the hype out there, one would think you can do miracles. It was one of the things I was trying to get at with establishing realistic objectives. For example, if you live on great soil in a hospitable climate, it will grow and abundance of native foods and you may not need the many things you can grow easily because the food base is largely covered. On the other side of the coin, on marginal soils in a challenging climate, food may be a limiting factor, but you have a tough time growing what you need. There are places that will produce an abundance of big bucks even if you do most things wrong, and other places where folks will struggle to improve things even with a big budget. So, when I look back at my history, I see a few gems when something we did had a good payoff, but for the most part, I tried many things that either failed or made little difference.

I agree with what you’re saying but the middle bandwidth between the worst and best scenarios has a sweet spot where a little investment has a substantial return. All of this is being deercentric of course.

IE- if you know you’re lacking bedding in a mid successional period of tree growth … or you have nothing but row evergreens… a day with a chain saw will pay back huge.

Now in the context of spread Deeroids 3000 supplement or a Artichoke plot added will take your bucks encountered from a 1.5yo to a 200”+ teenager….. that’s where we have all found ourselves on the hook before.

Just a general statement often forgotten. I spent way too much time on deer hunting and deer ground. Lots of hours and dollars into habitat… but if I am not judging the end product as a grip and grin with a way above average buck and focussed on the experience- everything has had value.


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