Kerr on rootstock other than B118

sandbur

5 year old buck +
Does anyone have an older Kerr crab on dolgo or Anty? Even on other rootstock? If of bearing age, how tall are they?

My Kerr on B118 have been ok for human use. They are short and easy to pick. I would prefer a taller tree for wildlife.

I can say the same for Liberty and centennial.

Perhaps it is my soil, my pruning, or me letting them fruit at a younger age. Perhaps they needed better care when first planted.


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Im surprised your older B118's are not tall enough. I switched back to just running with Antonovka just for the same reason, most of my trees are for wildlife and then for human consumption. Pruning is my biggest head ache but the trees are taller. I do have some Kerr on B118's that will go out into the field this spring maybe I will pull them in tighter to each other. The future lag time in production I will just have to deal with.

"Perhaps it is my soil, my pruning, or me letting them fruit at a younger age. Perhaps they needed better care when first planted"

Dont beat yourself up on it you have a ton of trees there is only so much time; if you had a half dozen trees that would be one thing but the more we put out the less resources we have to maximize their potential, weed control when young and protection in fencing is sometimes what a guy has to primarily focus on with the volume we have. My pruning and branch training is so far behind - yet the trees still produce. They wont be perfect trees and pruning will be spotty through the years. Trunk protection is also a big deal for me.

If a guy could rid the property of all deer and mice for ten years and not have to fence it would be a wonderful world. Branch training would be a breeze.
 
Im surprised your older B118's are not tall enough. I switched back to just running with Antonovka just for the same reason, most of my trees are for wildlife and then for human consumption. Pruning is my biggest head ache but the trees are taller. I do have some Kerr on B118's that will go out into the field this spring maybe I will pull them in tighter to each other. The future lag time in production I will just have to deal with.

"Perhaps it is my soil, my pruning, or me letting them fruit at a younger age. Perhaps they needed better care when first planted"

Dont beat yourself up on it you have a ton of trees there is only so much time; if you had a half dozen trees that would be one thing but the more we put out the less resources we have to maximize their potential, weed control when young and protection in fencing is sometimes what a guy has to primarily focus on with the volume we have. My pruning and branch training is so far behind - yet the trees still produce. They wont be perfect trees and pruning will be spotty through the years. Trunk protection is also a big deal for me.

If a guy could rid the property of all deer and mice for ten years and not have to fence it would be a wonderful world. Branch training would be a breeze.

Wickson on B118 is tall enough for wildlife, but is starting to tip. I just am not real impressed with B118 for wildlife. Dolgo rootstock is my preference at present.
Anty(Antanovka ) seems to be ok also.

Yup, I have too many trees, about 200. I am planning on planting 40-50 dolgo seedlings in a dense planting on an experimental basis.

It is an addiction.

Is Kerr considered a natural dwarf?


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The home orchard society lists Kerr as medium for vigor (out of weak, medium, very). USDA GRIN says standard vigor (out of small, medium, standard, very vigorous)

My Kerr on G222 hasn't grown much. I tbudded it in 2015 in its current location.
 
Interesting observation since while I only have about a 1/2 dozen trees on B118, they have been rather slow compared to seedling crabs planted over the years. I have been impressed with Red Splendor, Siberian, and Ranetka for growth on my land. Like your Dolgo, will plan on putting some more Ranetka scattered around as the local conservation group has those available most years cheap but no Dolgo.

All my grafted on B118 were from one source and planted the same year so that might have an impact but will say that seedling crabapples have outdone pretty much any of my other grafted ones on different rootstocks (Not all known but likely a lot of M7)

My Kerr on Anty were planted this year so no report on those for awhile.

I know that soil and site conditions make a big wild card on results. As I have reported in other threads, I won't bother planting any more plums. Others claim they grow great. Here they can survive but get their ass kicked growth wise by just about everything even without any winter die back. Final note, everything gets protected so not a browse issue either.
 
Does anyone have an older Kerr crab on dolgo or Anty? Even on other rootstock? If of bearing age, how tall are they?

My Kerr on B118 have been ok for human use. They are short and easy to pick. I would prefer a taller tree for wildlife.

I can say the same for Liberty and centennial.

Perhaps it is my soil, my pruning, or me letting them fruit at a younger age. Perhaps they needed better care when first planted.


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I don’t have nearly as many trees as you do, and my only Kerr is on order for 2021 planting (P.18). However, your post prompted me to take a look at which rootstocks seemed to produce early which could stunt growth. Of the 5 trees I added in 2017, 4 were on M.111 and 1 on B.118. of the 5, only the B.118 has produced fruit. Of the 7 trees I added in 2018, 1 was on M.111 and 6 were on B.118. Of the 6 trees on B.118, 3 produced fruit in year 2. If you allowed your Kerr produce early, I wonder if that might have stunted it a bit.

Ironically, I had a pleasant conversation with Steve Cummins from Cummins Nursery this past week as I called to order a couple trees as a house-warming gift. Our conversation turned to rootstocks and he suggested I remove all fruit from the B.118 for the first 4 years to ensure the trees reaches their full size potential. I did ask about the Dolgo and Antanovka rootstocks and he said they had settled on the P.18 because it reached the same size as the Antanovka, but produced fruit much sooner. I don’t recall why they picked the P.18 over the Dolgo rootstock. One thing I did learn is that the Geneva rootstock are resistant to vole damage – who knew!

Anyway, I don’t know if this helps explain why your Kerr on B.118 is lacking is size. But it might be a combination of the B.118 precocity, the Kerr being of moderate vigor, and soil fertility. Every tree I plant is a crap-shoot, so it’s nice to know that guys much smarter than me still scratch their heads sometimes. Good luck with your Dolgo seedlings, and of course, keep us posted.
 
My tallest trees, purchased, self grafted, and seedling are in locations where I have 18 inches of good black soil. Six inches of black soil and the trees are shorter. This is part of it.


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Interesting observation since while I only have about a 1/2 dozen trees on B118, they have been rather slow compared to seedling crabs planted over the years. I have been impressed with Red Splendor, Siberian, and Ranetka for growth on my land. Like your Dolgo, will plan on putting some more Ranetka scattered around as the local conservation group has those available most years cheap but no Dolgo.

All my grafted on B118 were from one source and planted the same year so that might have an impact but will say that seedling crabapples have outdone pretty much any of my other grafted ones on different rootstocks (Not all known but likely a lot of M7)

My Kerr on Anty were planted this year so no report on those for awhile.

I know that soil and site conditions make a big wild card on results. As I have reported in other threads, I won't bother planting any more plums. Others claim they grow great. Here they can survive but get their ass kicked growth wise by just about everything even without any winter die back. Final note, everything gets protected so not a browse issue either.

I am more impressed with the seedling dolgo rootstock and seedlings from wild crabs than the clonal rootstocks. Maybe just a regional thing.

Ranetka rootstock is still in test stage here.


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Dolgo seedling rootstock is a winner on my soil. I have been so impressed that I planted a garden with the seeds last spring and then fenced them in. I'll probably give them another year before transplanting them.
 
Have Kerr on M27...planted ~1997...it's only about 6 ft tall. Another one, nearby, on M26, planted a couple of years later is about 8 ft tall. Both bear heavily, annually
 
I have one on antonovka, planted in 2015. It has fruited heavily every year since 2018. Mine was Planted at the same time as a freedom, winter wildlife crab, all winter hangover, and violis. The kerr and all winter hangover are the smallest tree probably between 12-15ft, while the others are probably 15+. My kerr is one of my favorites for deer, but this year I noticed in dropped more sudden and it was bare by late October
 
Kerr is half Dolgo so I would think in general it would have some of the same characteristics - gets its fruit size from the Haralson half. I dont expect to see a large tree out of any of my crabs so if they do its a bonus. I just want trees that can take the browsing from deer and have something left to make apples with. I grafted a bunch of wild crabs last year and it was interesting most of the smaller crab fruit I found on taller trees and the Larger fruits where on shorter trees. I have never heard of anyone having large stature Dolgo's or Kerr's.


The tiniest fruit - pea sized, was on a tree 30 plus feet tall, the tallest I grafted from - go figure. The property owner last name was Timm so it got named "Tiny Timm" Crabapple

All my Kerr and Dolgo are young and are on a mix of B118 and Anty - right now I see no differences - they are not of bearing age and I will be stripping the fruit from them when I can.
 
Spring before last, I grafted Kerr onto root suckers I snagged off some Dolgo seedling trees. Time will tell. Some of my Dolgo seedlings seem to grow best for me in the sandiest, gravelliest soil I have - places where even jack pines won't grow.
 
Dolgos on their own roots can actually get quite tall, pushing 30 ft.

From the Arboretum at Madison WI.

The tree on the far right was fairly tall. I would say the tree in the middle is past it's prime and declining as not much fruit compared to a trip there about 5 yrs prior.
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I have visited at least three farms with very large crab apple trees where the fruit appears to be dolgo. The trees were well past 18 inches in diameter. All three farms were on heavy black soil.

Precise ID of the trees had been lost through the generations.

On one of those farms, there was a row of trees along the fence line with some variation in fruit size. I suspect those were dolgo seedlings or something similar.


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I have visited at least three farms with very large crab apple trees where the fruit appears to be dolgo. The trees were well past 18 inches in diameter. All three farms were on heavy black soil.

Precise ID of the trees had been lost through the generations.

On one of those farms, there was a row of trees along the fence line with some variation in fruit size. I suspect those were dolgo seedlings or something similar.


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The two farms that had what appeared to be true dolgo were near each other and had been in the family for generations( century farms). Elders said there used to be apple tree salesman who came around in the spring, with trees in hand to sell.

I have wondered if the salesman were tied to any large nursery that still exists.


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Kerr has been my problem child so far. Some good and some not so good performance wise. I have had several that died, some are very slow growth wise, and several that are doing well. Rootstock has been M-7.
 
We have 2 on B-118 and 1 on Anty. We don't have great soil at camp, and they're all about 10 - 11 ft. tall. Soil is a reddish, clayish loam with stones in it. The oldest tree is 5 years old.
 
We have 2 on B-118 and 1 on Anty. We don't have great soil at camp, and they're all about 10 - 11 ft. tall. Soil is a reddish, clayish loam with stones in it. The oldest tree is 5 years old.

Any of those throwing fruit yet Bows?
 
Dolgos on their own roots can actually get quite tall, pushing 30 ft.

From the Arboretum at Madison WI.

The tree on the far right was fairly tall. I would say the tree in the middle is past it's prime and declining as not much fruit compared to a trip there about 5 yrs prior.
View attachment 33124

Where did you get those tags? Something you made?

I have write on aluminum and worried about their logevity.
 
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