Johnson Grass?

[SwampCat]

I have about 20 acres of pasture on my place - grazed to the ground when I bought it. Mostly fescue, but quite a few native forbs, also. I bush hogged in fall and sprayed fescue in winter. Have a pretty solid stand of half little bluestem and half broomsedge bluestem with scattered switch and gamma and johnson grass. The broomsedge and bluestem are waist high. The scattered switch, gamma, and johnson grass is head high. The grass has choked out all the forbs. No animals use the native grasses - deer dont bed in it, birds dont feed on it, turkeys dont nest in it - cotton rats dont even use it. The johnson grass is full of somgbirds of all types feeding on the seed. The johnson grass is full of cotton rats - I guess feeding on the seed. Deer bed in the johnson grass.

I exert a lot of time and effort trying to get rid of the johnson grass. Aside from the aesthetics of having nwsg - is johnson grass all that bad?

 

[MickT]

Structurally, it’s not that different. Sounds like you have a too much grass problem rather than a johnsongrass problem. Fall/winter disking can stimulate the forbs as can spraying to kill some of the grasses.


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[Catscratch]

I'm not a fan of Johnson grass but I do recognize it has benefits. We run cattle on it to help keep it from getting to tall. Spray it to keep it from spreading to much. And hunt it when strips and patches are left for wildlife.

 

[Baker]

I think we should find Mr. Johnson and publicly flog him. I place johnson grass below rye grass as impossible to get rid of, having minimal to no value and certainly invasive. Low quality stuff.

 

[ksgobbler]

Structurally, it’s not that different. Sounds like you have a too much grass problem rather than a johnsongrass problem. Fall/winter disking can stimulate the forbs as can spraying to kill some of the grasses.


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Early spring burns also promote forbs

 

[buckdeer1]

kill the jg and plant switch ,spray with plateau in spring and it's dead

 

[SwampCat]

kill the jg and plant switch ,spray with plateau in spring and it's dead

I dont need to plant more nwsg. My native wildlife avoids it like the plague. I am going to bush hog my grass late winter this year and disk and see if I can get some forbs back in the mix. I am afraid to burn since I have no help.

 

[MickT]

kill the jg and plant switch ,spray with plateau in spring and it's dead

Switch is susceptible to plateau too, especially at the rates required to kill johnsongrass. Outrider will kill johnsongrass out of natives graveyard dead.


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[SwampCat]

What is the big plus for switch?

 

[buckdeer1]

I don't have an issue with plateau killing Any other grasses but I can't say I have sprayed it on switch but use alot on NWSG.I think switch stays standing better than big blue or some of those later in year.However you are right about being too thick and quail unlimited even says that young game birds can become trapped and die due to thickness.On my CRP you have 2 maintenance choices, too burn or lightly disc.By discing it thins it down and stirs up the weed seed or forbs.Some of this will depend on your soil also.Mine is sandy so if I stir my soil I will end up with sandburs but where ground is alittle better the NWSG is 6ft tall just like the switch

 

[MickT]

Plateau only affects switch and not the other commonly planted nwsg species.


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[j-bird]

I HATE Johnsongrass. But, like anything, in some cases it's not so terrible. I still have some, but I try to keep it in check. What I have seen is that it will quickly dominate an area if allowed and become a monoculture. It has to be one of my top 5 worst invasive weeds I have. I will always have some, not by choice, but I realize I can't eradicate it entirely either. Just be very aware that is spreads easily and can be very aggressive. Mowing alone will not control it. I tend to have to mow to try to contain it and then spray with whatever I can find to control bigger problem areas.

 

[SwampCat]

I HATE Johnsongrass. But, like anything, in some cases it's not so terrible. I still have some, but I try to keep it in check. What I have seen is that it will quickly dominate an area if allowed and become a monoculture. It has to be one of my top 5 worst invasive weeds I have. I will always have some, not by choice, but I realize I can't eradicate it entirely either. Just be very aware that is spreads easily and can be very aggressive. Mowing alone will not control it. I tend to have to mow to try to contain it and then spray with whatever I can find to control bigger problem areas.

Yes, I have been around Johnson grass all my life. I, too, spend a lot of time trying to get rid of it. I actually find if fairly easy to kill - but it makes a lot of seed and tends to come back. But, I wonder if I should exert so much effort to eradicate it - when it is teeming with wildlife compared to my nwsg. I can ride by two or three hundred yards of nwsg and not see a sign of life. I go past a fifty yard patch of Johnson grass and will see a rabbit jump into it and a covey of songbirds erupt from it. My deer bed it in - but not my nwsg. Cotton rats are numerous in my Johnson grass. I know I cant let my Johnson grass take over, in patches over a couple of acres - the hogs will usually move in. Does anything eat nwsg seed? I just wonder if my control efforts might be better spent somewhere else.

 

[j-bird]

Yes, I have been around Johnson grass all my life. I, too, spend a lot of time trying to get rid of it. I actually find if fairly easy to kill - but it makes a lot of seed and tends to come back. But, I wonder if I should exert so much effort to eradicate it - when it is teeming with wildlife compared to my nwsg. I can ride by two or three hundred yards of nwsg and not see a sign of life. I go past a fifty yard patch of Johnson grass and will see a rabbit jump into it and a covey of songbirds erupt from it. My deer bed it in - but not my nwsg. Cotton rats are numerous in my Johnson grass. I know I cant let my Johnson grass take over, in patches over a couple of acres - the hogs will usually move in. Does anything eat nwsg seed? I just wonder if my control efforts might be better spent somewhere else.

I used to be where I think you are. I used to think I had to kill every bit of it I could find. That takes a lot of effort AND you never kill it all. I think control is a much better practice...especially if you don't have it taking over and the critters are using it. The biggest thing I have seen with my own NWSG is that it doesn't do much as a monoculture. It seems to be far more valuable with other natural "weeds"/forbes mixed in with it. I would suspect the birds will eat the seeds of the johnson grass, but I can't say I have ever seen other critters use it much other than moving thru it. Critters need room to move around thru the NWSG and if it's planted too thick I think it looses it's appeal. I encourage lots of ragweed and goldenrod and the like in my NWSG as well as some shrubs as well and I think the mix is far better from a general wildlife value perspective. My deer will bed in my switch, but only against a downed tree top or a large shrub or the like. I think a narrow meandering path thru NWSG is the ticket... this creates more edge, maybe plant a long plot in it and can increase the use of the available cover by adding a food supply. I still hate JG, but I realize - focusing on killing it all just distracts me from other tasks. My biggest area of JG is in a flood plain....so regardless of what I do - when it floods - I get more seed. Just the facts of life. Main thing I like about NWSG over switch is it's ability to stand in the winter time. That provides the needed winter cover for lots of critters, as the JG (at least here) becomes broken down due to wind, rain, sleet and snow.

 

[SwampCat]

I used to be where I think you are. I used to think I had to kill every bit of it I could find. That takes a lot of effort AND you never kill it all. I think control is a much better practice...especially if you don't have it taking over and the critters are using it. The biggest thing I have seen with my own NWSG is that it doesn't do much as a monoculture. It seems to be far more valuable with other natural "weeds"/forbes mixed in with it. I would suspect the birds will eat the seeds of the johnson grass, but I can't say I have ever seen other critters use it much other than moving thru it. Critters need room to move around thru the NWSG and if it's planted too thick I think it looses it's appeal. I encourage lots of ragweed and goldenrod and the like in my NWSG as well as some shrubs as well and I think the mix is far better from a general wildlife value perspective. My deer will bed in my switch, but only against a downed tree top or a large shrub or the like. I think a narrow meandering path thru NWSG is the ticket... this creates more edge, maybe plant a long plot in it and can increase the use of the available cover by adding a food supply. I still hate JG, but I realize - focusing on killing it all just distracts me from other tasks. My biggest area of JG is in a flood plain....so regardless of what I do - when it floods - I get more seed. Just the facts of life. Main thing I like about NWSG over switch is it's ability to stand in the winter time. That provides the needed winter cover for lots of critters, as the JG (at least here) becomes broken down due to wind, rain, sleet and snow.

What do you do to thin your nwsg stands?

 

[TreeDaddy]

i would kill to have that problem^^^^^^

bill

 

[buckdeer1]

Can thin by lightly discing

 

[MickT]

Johnsongrass spreads by rhizomes at least as well as it does by seed. Disking may give you some temporary relief, but it will cut up and spread rhizomes.

I’m generally of the opinion that if I don’t want a plant where it is, kill it to the root and see what comes back behind it.


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[Catscratch]

To add to my earlier post in regards to the OP. I hate JG, but have come to terms with it. I've spent countless hours and dollars spraying it... it turns brown and dies, then comes back from rhizome. Discing seems to promote the spread by rhizome. Seed can stay dormant for time frames measured in decades. If you have moving water it is likely that seed will find it's way back onto your place every time it floods. It's a pain in the ass! Cattle keep it down (they love it but be careful as it can kill them if you don't graze it correctly). Shade also helps keep it at bay.

I've never been able to irradiate a stand of JG but I've kept it from spreading. I've never tried Platue though and can't speak to it's effectiveness. I've shot a lot of quail, rabbits, and deer in relation to JG (not because I promoted it, but because I recognized I wasn't going to get rid of it and used it). Mowed paths, fall plots in it (cereal grains and clovers as it goes dormant early in the fall), etc can make it useful.

 

[j-bird]

What do you do to thin your nwsg stands?

Spot or strip spray. I would agree that discing will only spread JG.