Issues with crab apple grafting success rates?

[Turkey Creek]

All right this looks like the second year in a row for this problem and it has me stumped. My grafting success for crab apple varieties (Hewes, Dolgo, Chestnut)was very poor last year and this year is starting to shape up the same. I walked the rows in the nursery yesterday and you can see that the buds began to leaf out on many of my Hewes, Dolgo and Chestnut crab apple grafts and then died. I would guess at this point I am batting 95% or better on all other varieties. With 100s of grafts these got all treated the same from the get go. Scion wood came from my own trees. Success look much better on scions for crab apple varieties that came from outside sources. Prior to 2 years ago I had the same success rate straight across the board no matter the variety. The only thing I can think of is that maybe I am collecting my scion wood a bit too late. I figured that the trees were better storage systems than my scion fridge, but maybe that is not the case? Maybe the buds are breaking before the callus is formed? I will have to monitor them more closely next year from collection to planting and see if I can spot the issue.

Anyone else have issues with crab apple varieties over other apples?

 

[Red]

I don't have any answers for you but I noticed that I have had poor luck with a couple kinds of crabs. Dolgo and chestnut for example.
This year I have had good luck with Kerr, golden hornet and Trailman though.

 

[Neahawg]

My dolgo from greyphase is taking off, but like you I think my hewes is about to throw in the towel not sure why.

 

[Turkey Creek]

It sure is irritating! The grafted ones that take grow like crazy. I will likely do a "plant-topsy" :)on a couple that look like failures this afternoon and see what it looks like under the plumbers tape. If I had always had poor success with them I would just chalk it up to the varieties, but it only seems like the last 2 years that it has been really noticable.

 

[buckvelvet]

Rosedale Crab is really weird wood, its the hardest apple wood I've grafted with yet, its stringy and knotty. Not much success this year with it.

 

[CrazyEd]

All right this looks like the second year in a row for this problem and it has me stumped. My grafting success for crab apple varieties (Hewes, Dolgo, Chestnut)was very poor last year and this year is starting to shape up the same. I walked the rows in the nursery yesterday and you can see that the buds began to leaf out on many of my Hewes, Dolgo and Chestnut crab apple grafts and then died. I would guess at this point I am batting 95% or better on all other varieties. With 100s of grafts these got all treated the same from the get go. Scion wood came from my own trees. Success look much better on scions for crab apple varieties that came from outside sources. Prior to 2 years ago I had the same success rate straight across the board no matter the variety. The only thing I can think of is that maybe I am collecting my scion wood a bit too late. I figured that the trees were better storage systems than my scion fridge, but maybe that is not the case? Maybe the buds are breaking before the callus is formed? I will have to monitor them more closely next year from collection to planting and see if I can spot the issue.

Anyone else have issues with crab apple varieties over other apples?

sounds like my issue with grafting pears. I just can't get one to go for the life of me.

Crabs on the other hand. This year of my 100 trees grafted, about 80% or more were crabs and I'd say overall my success rate is around 80% success. The crabs always seem to be the most eager to show signs of life. Like you said, maybe you need to collect your scionwood earlier while it's in a "more" dormant state?

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I noticed the same thing with my crab grafts - they open up sooner than the " regular " apples. Same thing in our camp orchard trees - crabs first to pop.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Don't talk to me about great issues. I think I lost 75% of my grafts that were leafing out. I am very depressed. To top it off I had an 80% loss on my most productive trees from last year and in some cases 100 %. My HC's are all cooked except a handful. I am so pissed. But have good blooms on King David and my cider varieties. Ashmeads, brown snout, Kingston Black, Coxs Orange Pippin so it's a balance. My back orchard got crushed which is my deer hot spot. Gotta get the brassicas cooking back there now. That 12 degree night in April kicked my butt. The blooms started to come out tight cluster but we're doa when pushed out. Even the blossoms now don't look healthy. Oh well

 

[greyphase]

Don't talk to me about great issues. I think I lost 75% of my grafts that were leafing out. I am very depressed. To top it off I had an 80% loss on my most productive trees from last year and in some cases 100 %. My HC's are all cooked except a handful. I am so pissed. But have good blooms on King David and my cider varieties. Ashmeads, brown snout, Kingston Black, Coxs Orange Pippin so it's a balance. My back orchard got crushed which is my deer hot spot. Gotta get the brassicas cooking back there now. That 12 degree night in April kicked my butt. The blooms started to come out tight cluster but we're doa when pushed out. Even the blossoms now don't look healthy. Oh well

Sorry to hear this Paul. Mother Nature can be a real b@#ch at times. :mad:

 

[buckvelvet]

Don't talk to me about great issues. I think I lost 75% of my grafts that were leafing out. I am very depressed. To top it off I had an 80% loss on my most productive trees from last year and in some cases 100 %. My HC's are all cooked except a handful. I am so pissed. But have good blooms on King David and my cider varieties. Ashmeads, brown snout, Kingston Black, Coxs Orange Pippin so it's a balance. My back orchard got crushed which is my deer hot spot. Gotta get the brassicas cooking back there now. That 12 degree night in April kicked my butt. The blooms started to come out tight cluster but we're doa when pushed out. Even the blossoms now don't look healthy. Oh well

Oh man, thats catastrophic! I'm terribly sorry to hear about this Paul. :'(

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Sorry to hear it as well Paul. This spring has been really up & down for temps. and the downs were REALLY down. Some of our blossoms at camp were toasted too, but our trees are still young and we're not selling any, so they can just grow more ( hopefully ! ). Our later bloomers should be OK.

Besides brassicas, do you have room for winter wheat or rye ??

 

[Turkey Creek]

I pulled a few of the unsuccessful grafts today. Out of 4 only 1 showed any signs of callus forming. 3 were recycled bench graft root stocks from last year. All were B118. Besides the lack of callus the thing that stood out the most was zero root growth. Some of the root stocks had small leaves that had opened. I am thinking now that besides my scion collecting possibly being a little late, my root stock may have been too dormant when I grafted. I didnt have cold storage for my root stock the first few years that I grafted trees, I do now. I took my root stock directly from cold storage and grafted it. Maybe the combination of the dormant root stock and the advanced scions is the reason for the increased failures on the crabs. Lots of other apples doing perfectly fine so the dormant root stock cant be the only factor.

 

[CrazyEd]

Paul, your grafting this year sounds like me last year. I had the worst luck last year, this year - things look much better already. I'll probably still graft another 100 more next year. As I was walking around my farm today i was happy to see that we have room for tons more trees. Plus I still have a 15 pallets of shit and gravel. I already have my GRIN order in.

 

[buckvelvet]

All my apple grafts are doing fine. Something has happened to 80% of the pears though, they turned black, curled in and are croaking at a high rate. Shock from transplanting? I don't really know, I don't consider it fire blight as that just seems odd they all of the diff varieties that aren't planted at the same palce are doing that. Perhaps its transplant shock and a few colder than expected nights?

 

[Turkey Creek]

I have found new pear leaves to be more sensitive to environmental stress, which shows itself with the black edges and cupped leaves. They may be alright yet, dont get in a hurry to regraft them. Even healthy pear grafts are much slower than apples to put on meaningful growth.

 

[buckvelvet]

I have found new pear leaves to be more sensitive to environmental stress, which shows itself with the black edges and cupped leaves. They may be alright yet, dont get in a hurry to regraft them. Even healthy pear grafts are much slower than apples to put on meaningful growth.

What you describe is excactly what I'm dealing with. Crazy I hope i don't lose all those stinkin pears.

 

[Maya]

TC, since you said "success look much better on scions for crab apple varieties that came from outside sources", I'd say you need to focus on your scions and their health. Just as health going into winter has a lot to do with fruit bud health, I'm sure the same holds true for scion wood.

Just a guess, but my gut has me wondering how your trees are going into winter? Mid-west has me thinking drought. I know you water but are those trees getting enough water going into winter? Have you done a leaf analysis on them in the summer? What have you done nutrition wise on these trees you are collecting scions from?

Just a couple random thoughts/questions..... Good luck!

 

[Turkey Creek]

TC, since you said "success look much better on scions for crab apple varieties that came from outside sources", I'd say you need to focus on your scions and their health. Just as health going into winter has a lot to do with fruit bud health, I'm sure the same holds true for scion wood.

Just a guess, but my gut has me wondering how your trees are going into winter? Mid-west has me thinking drought. I know you water but are those trees getting enough water going into winter? Have you done a leaf analysis on them in the summer? What have you done nutrition wise on these trees you are collecting scions from?

Just a couple random thoughts/questions..... Good luck!

Thanks for your thoughts. I collect scion wood from the other varieties I have been grafting in the same location as well, not just the crabapples. However the crabs are the only ones showing the issue of a low percentage of takers. I have not done any leaf analysis, havent had any trees that looked lacking in nutrients vegetatively wise and this will be my first fruit year barring any unforeseen problems. Soil test I had done 2 years ago showed good fertility. Some of the crabapple grafts do take. my percentage of take is just significantly lower than with other apple varieties. I did notice today that the same issue did arise with the Centennial crabapples that I grafted this year. Those scion came from an outside source.