If you ever wondered how fruit yeild and/or fruit size varies with thinning of fruit... read this.

[Prof.Kent]

From an article entitled CHEMICAL FRUIT THINNING OF APPLES

C. G. Forshey, Hudson Valley Laboratory, Highland, NY
http://dspace.library.cornell.edu/bitstream/1813/5147/1/FLS-116.pdf

FRUIT NUMBERS, FRUIT SIZE, AND YIELD RELATIONSHIPS

The crop of an apple tree is the product of 2 factors: the number of apples on the tree and the size of those apples. If the number of fruits per tree is compared with yield, a very strong, positive relationship is obvious. In addition, this is a broad, general relationship because different orchards and different years can be combined without altering the relationship (Fig. 2). However, when fruit size and yield are similarly compared, a different relationship is revealed. First of all, the relationship is negative; as fruit size increases, yield decreases. Second, the relationship is less precise or less predictable. Also the relationship tends to be specific for location (Fig. 3). This is an expression of the influence of factors other than crop load on fruit size. If fruit size is compared with fruit numbers, the relationship is again negative (Fig. 1). This is not surprising because one of the objectives of fruit thinning (reducing the number of fruits) is an increase in fruit size. However, it is significant to note that the increase in fruit size is proportionately less than the reduction in fruit numbers. The increase in size does not compensate for the reduction in numbers. Effective thinning always results in some loss in yield, but the increase in value is greater than the loss in volume as long as the thinning is not carried to extremes. While thinning does increase the leaf area available to the persisting fruits, not all of the increase in carbohydrate supply goes to the fruits. A part of it is always diverted to vegetative growth and this inevitably results in some reduction in yield.

 

[Apple Junkie]

Wow… that’s a lot of data. It’s amazing how deep these guys dive into every detail of apple development and tree health. It does point out to me there is an apple growing industry, and like every industry, its objective is to maximize profit.

Luckily for me, I don’t have the profit burden, so my take-away is a bit different. I think having a wide variety of apples, with good separation for plenty of sun, will assure a dependable yield of apples every fall - good years and bad. Personally, I care more about the taste and health of the of the apple, than the size. After reading all the variables involved in yield, I am more committed to having diversity in my orchard than ever before. Tons of good information Professor – thanks!

 

[sandbur]

If we are talking about trees for wildlife, thinning might prevent the every other year pattern of a heavy crop and then little or no crop. Late frosts can ruin our plans on this.




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[Prof.Kent]

I first looked into this topic because I had heard that it takes much more "energy" for a fruit tree to produce seeds than to produce fruit flesh (carbohydrates). I was wondering where the maximum amount of fruit production would be; at maximum fruit size and minimum fruit quantity --or-- let the tree produce all the fruit it wants to, but at reduced size. I believe the most volume of fruit would be produced somewhere in the middle, without stressing the tree by producing the highest quantity of fruit. Where that balance would best be probably differs by variety.

 

[yoderjac]

My guess is that fewer larger fruits demand a higher price from consumers than more smaller fruits. What apples do you see in the grocery stores? Certainly not many of the smaller ones that I love when I go to the orchard. In a wildlife setting, I would want the tree to produce more poundage of smaller apples with less maintenance.

Great Topic Prof!

 

[sandbur]

My guess is that fewer larger fruits demand a higher price from consumers than more smaller fruits. What apples do you see in the grocery stores? Certainly not many of the smaller ones that I love when I go to the orchard. In a wildlife setting, I would want the tree to produce more poundage of smaller apples with less maintenance.

Great Topic Prof!

Exactly why I like crab apples.

Plus I like the taste of most of them.


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[H20fwler]

It is an interesting topic viewed both ways, for the commercial orchard and then for the wildlife orchard. The goals while similar are still quite different in the end, I'm a big fan of the crabs also... as many varieties as I can put out.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Sandbur, post #3 - Also a good point. SOME thinning might be good to help with biennial bearing trees. With over 70 apples and crabs, we probably won't do much thinning. We'll depend more on our diverse varieties that are annual bearers to produce crops every year. But if I find specific trees that the deer like and need thinning to avoid biennial crops, I'll hand-thin those. For now, I'll wait to see what shakes out with production - we're still early in the production game.

 

[SwampCat]

Coons, crows and possums do all my thinning for me - apple, peach, and plum trees. If a fruit ever hits the ground - rarely - hogs eat it. Deer around my place will never experience an apple, peach, or plum.

 

[Prof.Kent]

Wow… that’s a lot of data. It’s amazing how deep these guys dive into every detail of apple development and tree health. It does point out to me there is an apple growing industry, and like every industry, its objective is to maximize profit.

Luckily for me, I don’t have the profit burden, so my take-away is a bit different. I think having a wide variety of apples, with good separation for plenty of sun, will assure a dependable yield of apples every fall - good years and bad. Personally, I care more about the taste and health of the of the apple, than the size. After reading all the variables involved in yield, I am more committed to having diversity in my orchard than ever before. Tons of good information Professor – thanks!

I agree with your assessment. It does encourage me to thin fruit (if I can reach it), get larger size, and possibly keep the tree from going biennial because it grew too much fruit the previous year. But if you plant enough trees a few going biennial on you doesn't hurt much.

 

[Prof.Kent]

Coons, crows and possums do all my thinning for me - apple, peach, and plum trees. If a fruit ever hits the ground - rarely - hogs eat it. Deer around my place will never experience an apple, peach, or plum.

Yeah, then there's the Critter Equation. I had my entire orchard of 25 trees stripped bare one year by July 1st. A pox on critters!

 

[4wanderingeyes]

Thinning on full size trees is almost impossible, at least for me. Being the trees lower branches are about 4-5 feet high, and the trees are 20+ feet, and I can only reach to maybe 7 feet on the outer edges, that leaves most of the tree not thinned. I dont have the time or want to set up a ladder and do them, nor use a tractor bucket and climb up in that to thin them. SO I pretty much leave the bigger trees do their thing. After 5-6 years, they are on their own. Prior to that, I thin what I can reach, to not put the young trees into much stress, and I want the tree to grow rather then produce fruit and probably break branches from the weight of the fruit.

 

[sandbur]

Sandbur, post #3 - Also a good point. SOME thinning might be good to help with biennial bearing trees. With over 70 apples and crabs, we probably won't do much thinning. We'll depend more on our diverse varieties that are annual bearers to produce crops every year. But if I find specific trees that the deer like and need thinning to avoid biennial crops, I'll hand-thin those. For now, I'll wait to see what shakes out with production - we're still early in the production game.

Last night I counted 91 trees that I mow around in the home orchard and about 50 are named varieties. Some are just seedlings that I like or grafts from wild trees.

I have three other locations of somewhat ignored crab/apples on the farm. Some are pretty much on their own.


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[Bowsnbucks]

^^^^ - Me living 3 hours from camp doesn't help. If I lived as close as most of the members do, I'd be there doing all kinds of planting, thinning, pruning, hinging, spraying, etc. From a habitat standpoint, I wish I lived 5 minutes from the camp. From a common sense, practical economic standpoint - I'm parked 3 hours away. I am a bit envious of guys like you Bur, who are living right there in the middle of your acreage.

 

[Prof.Kent]

Last night I counted 91 trees that I mow around in the home orchard and about 50 are named varieties. Some are just seedlings that I like or grafts from wild trees.

I have three other locations of somewhat ignored crab/apples on the farm. Some are pretty much on their own.


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I am a firm believer in the theory that if your want to guarantee yourself an apple then you need to grow more trees to produce more fruit than all of nature can't take away from you.

 

[aerospacefarmer]

Thinning on full size trees is almost impossible, at least for me. Being the trees lower branches are about 4-5 feet high, and the trees are 20+ feet, and I can only reach to maybe 7 feet on the outer edges, that leaves most of the tree not thinned. I dont have the time or want to set up a ladder and do them, nor use a tractor bucket and climb up in that to thin them. SO I pretty much leave the bigger trees do their thing. After 5-6 years, they are on their own. Prior to that, I thin what I can reach, to not put the young trees into much stress, and I want the tree to grow rather then produce fruit and probably break branches from the weight of the fruit.

You can thin chemically as well but it’s somewhat of a complicated process. Seems bigger trees can hold more fruit without sacrificing fruit size too much the problem I find with too much fruit is biennial production