How do you calculate your personal seed mix rates.

WTNUT

5 year old buck +
I don’t know that I have ever seen a post on this forum or the old QDMA that dealt with this specific issue, so stick with me for a few minutes.

Over the last 20 years I have “created” a lot of my own blends, and as you can tell from recent posts I still like to gather information and ideas from others. Here is the issue. Lets say we are going to create our own blend of oats, groundhog radishes, purple top turnips, Alice Clover and Aberlasting Clover and Crimson Clover. Don’t focus on the mix it may not be ideal, but I am really looking at the math to follow.

Here are the seeding rates for a pure stand:
Oats 60-80 pounds per acre
Radishes 8-12 pounds per acre
Purple top turnips 8-10 pounds per acre
Alice Clover 8-12 pounds per acre
Aberlasting Clover 8-12 pounds per acre
Crimson Clover 15-20 pound per acre

Now lets say we want the following percentages in our hypothetical field:

Oats 25 percent
Radishes 15 percent
Turnips 10 percent
Alice clover 20 percent
Aberlasting 20 percent
Crimson 10 percent

With many of my blends here is how I would seed that field:

Oats 20 pounds x 1.25 = 30 pounds
Radishes 2 pounds x 1.25 = 2.5 pounds
Turnips 1 pound x 1.25 = 1.25 pounds
Alice Clover 2.5 pounds x 1.25 = 3 pounds
Aberlasting Clover 2.5 pounds x 1.25 = 3 pounds
Crimson Clover 2 pounds x 1.25 = 3.25 pounds

While we read and hear about not seeding too heavily, the unknown variable is the deer per square mile and other available sources at YOUR location. Unlike cattle which can be kept away from a newly seeded field, we can’t keep the deer out (generally). Therefore, we have to account for crops lost due to immediate grazing. That is where my 1.25 multiplier comes in. That seems to work for me.

So tell me how you figure the ratios in your personal mixes. Thanks.


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First off my plots are all pretty small so cost of a few pounds one way or the other is not helping drive my decisions. So planting a little heavy for critter browse and non ideal planting technique (no no-till drill here) is typical for grains and clovers. My fudge factor is less for brassicas

I agree when mixing brassicas that need to cut back on rates and proportion accordingly. Too much seed is not a good result.

However on clover I pretty much use rates that are "solo crop" on the perennial varieties as that is what I want long term in most plots anyway. Perennial ones take so long to really get going anyway (like following year) that the annuals like brassicas are long gone by the time that clover really kicks in. I might even frost seed some more clover in the spring as well but that is only if I have a bunch of bare spots the following spring.

Clover is my mainstay plot food due to many critters besides deer can use it (brassica is really deer focus only) and my location up north is a factor too. It gets used when snow is 10 inches or less and grows well all summer long.
 
Interesting.

In your example I wouldn’t even consider what percentage of each I wanted.

I’d just cut the rates

8-12/acre seed would be about 1.5/acre
Crimson 4 lbs
Oats 25-30 lbs

it would probably be to heavy but that would only hurt the brassicas. And since clover starts so slow it probably wouldn’t.
 
Mostly it has been trial and error for me. I find it more complicated. Let's take buckwheat for example. In a pure stand, you can easily use 40 to 50 lbs per acre (sometimes even more) and get a great stand. In most general mixes, I would not exceed 10 lbs per acre. The reason is that buckwheat is so fast to germinate and grow that it can easily out compete slower germinating components in the mix. On the other hand, when I mix it with sunn hemp, I can mix in even proportions.

This is one example of a crop where it is not as simple as planting as a percentage of the desired outcome. There are also other variables besides the deer densities. For example, if I plant buckwheat for the summer, deer will use it but not abuse it. If I plant soybeans, with the same deer densities, if I don't plant high acreage, the will nip off the young plants before they establish. So, even with a given deer density, they relate to different crops differently.

Deer are not the only factor on the final field. Soil type and planting technique play a role on germination rates as well as the the age of the seed. If you really want to dig into details, one would factor in the different germination rates of each component in the mix. I get different germination rates between T&M and min-till. Some folks report a seed predation issue with turkey or other birds.

The biggest factor I see in germination is weather. Moisture level plays a greater factor than anything else for me. So seeds seem to require much more moisture than others for good germination.

So, the calculation approach you outline is fine for getting into a general ball park, but for me, there is a lot of record keeping and fine tuning as I see results from one year to the next.

I think for most new folk, the harder decision is what seeds to mix. Understanding things like C:N ratios for maximizing the building of OM and how some crops complement others become factors in my mixes as well. Another factor is the specific weeds. I've selected mix components based on dealing with particular problematic weeds. The herbicides we use may have residual soil effects that affect some seeds in a mix but not others.

As long as mother nature cooperates, it is hard to have a real failure when planting for deer. The key is looking at your results and asking what worked, what didn't work and why, then making adjustments.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Depends what kind of tools you have to plant. I regularly go many times over full seeding rates, and for a few reasons.

I don't count perennial clover seed in the rate at all, zero. It seems to carve out it's spot and sit there as a green spec until next summer comes around.
I don't count low probability seeds either. I'll try anything, and if it's got a low likelihood of taking, I'll put on a very high rate just to see if I can get some of it to come.
For cereals (except oats), I shoot for 2-3 bushels/acre depending on cost and conditions. Oats I'd do 3-4 given they can be a trick to take in a broadcast situation.
Most other stuff I just put in "a scoop" to get a seat at the table for diversity's sake (flax, chicory, jap millet, annual clovers, flowers).

Next weekend I'm gonna be mowing and fall seeding into my clover. I've never had the planets align to be able to mow this time of year until now. I'll be putting down around an 800% rate of sunflower seed among many other things.
 
I experiment a lot. I also like playing with the calculator on Green Cover Seeds. I have found some things will absolutely choke everything out in a mix. Sunn Hemp is best example for me. I have backed it off to about 5 lbs acre where it supports everything else in my mixes perfectly. 10 lbs of buck wheat work well in a mix for me . I have to be thoughtful also as I get a lot of volunteer growth from whatever I planted the previous year. This year I have lots of sorghum sudan grass coming back in all my plots. Even thought I planted a heavy summer mix though everything seems to be working well together. And thats another observation. Seems fields can support a much heavier planting rate thanI would have expected. The key is the blend.

As stated above I plant a very heavy dose of winter small grains with an assortment of brassicas and winter clovers. Never have problems with the small grains but have seen the brassicas which jump up so fast choke others out. Experimentation is key for me
 
Baker,

I completely agree on the Sunn Hemp. I used lighter seeding rates last year. I was experimenting with rates but most fields got 10 lbs of each Sunn Hemp and Buckwheat. I then drilled sunflower on top. On my hunting farm which has marginal soils and high deer densities, the buckwheat took off. The sunn hemp in these fields never got as tall as the buckwheat. I got almost zero sun flowers which I kind of expected with those deer densities. On one field, I upped the rates to about 15 lbs/ac of each. The sunn hemp got 6' tall in that field. It still had a lot of buckwheat but it seemed to be dominated by the sunn hemp.

On my retirement property about 15 minutes with lower deer densities and more fertile soils, I planted at about 20 lbs/ac each. The sunn hemp was taller than my tractor cab when I mowed it and there was some but much less buckwheat.

This spring I decided to got with 20 lbs each of buckwheat and sunn hemp at the hunting farm. I also added a couple pounds/ac Wild Game Sorghum. I had good germination rates off everything (min-till, broadcast, cultipack, and spray. The buckwheat was stunted and lethargic. That may have been due to a late cold snap we had. I planted late but the soil temps were not as warm as I would like for buckwheat. The buckwheat was clearly lethargic before the sunn hemp got tall enough or thick enough to impact it. Maybe it was the soil temps or maybe the sunn hemp has some other impact on the buckwheat. I don't know. One would think the legume and buckwheat would be complementary.

This year, the sunn hemp is dominating:

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You can see a little bit of sorghum but it is in there. It will be interesting to see if it heads out this fall with the sunn hemp. The picture was taken last week and the sunn hemp was 3'-4' tall at this point.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Jack, are the deer in your area grazing the sunn hemp? Deer on my farm love the hemp, graze the growing tips readily and as the plants get taller than they can reach the start hitting the leaves. By this time of year--mid July-- my hemp is about 6' tall and now the cowpeas are starting to vine and crawl up them. Sunflowers are in full bloom and the milo is setting seed. The buckwheat has gone to seed and is swallowed up by the jungle. The soybeans have grown nicely , were grazed early but they too are be consumed by the taller growing plants as well.

Fun to look in the fields and watch the grazing patterns as the field grows.
 
Yes, my deer browse the tops when it is young. By the time it hits this stage, they seem to use it a bit less but still eat the leaves. It my be that it is just less obvious when the leaves are eaten than when the young plants are topped. You are further south and much earlier than me. I planted later this year than usual because of the weather. We had an early warm up and the a damp late cold spell. Most years, I can plant in early May and the soil times are higher than than they were this year in mid-May when I planted. I'm only about 2 months in so far.
 
I use throw and mow, so there are a couple additional factors to consider. If I'm going to be low on thatch, I'll use more seed. Then for seeds like radish, which are larger and need more moisture, I'll go heavier as I get lower germination rates. Also, for things like sunflowers I have to go heavy as birds will eat a good chunk of it.
 
Here is a strategy you could use. Buy a commercial blend and plant it in a 1/4 acre plot. Most of the commercial blends seem to come in a bag that covers a 1/4 acre. Save the seed tag or take a picture of it. If it does good you can just multiply their ingredients out to meet your needs. For example, if it is a ten pound bag of seed for 1/4 acre and it contains 75% oats you know you need a 40 pound bag of seed for one acre. That means you need 7.5 pounds of oats for this particular mix. Continue on down the seed tag ingredients and you can reproduce the mix.
 
Here is a strategy you could use. Buy a commercial blend and plant it in a 1/4 acre plot. Most of the commercial blends seem to come in a bag that covers a 1/4 acre. Save the seed tag or take a picture of it. If it does good you can just multiply their ingredients out to meet your needs. For example, if it is a ten pound bag of seed for 1/4 acre and it contains 75% oats you know you need a 40 pound bag of seed for one acre. That means you need 7.5 pounds of oats for this particular mix. Continue on down the seed tag ingredients and you can reproduce the mix.

Except many commercial blends are very poor choices. Many seem to be focused more on the hunter and marketing than deer. For example, WI has some very nice improved clovers and they only sell them in a mix. When you look at the mix, it has very little of the improved clover seed in it and a large percentage of inexpensive Berseem annual clover. The guy plants it, sees green clover pop right up and says to himself. That was a great product! It lets WI advertise based on the more expensive exclusive clover seed but actually sell a lot of Berseem and inexperienced guys think it is great. One could not duplicate this mix because the improved clovers they use are only sold in the mix.

Another trick the BOB companies play is this. They use a variety of seed some of which will do well in some regions and very poorly in others. They then include ryegrass in the mix. It is very easy to grow and can be very hard to get rid of. Deer eat it but it is low on their preference list. The inexperienced guy thinks he as done great as the field he just planted is green. He actually paid for a bunch of seed that is inappropriate for his climate or soil and he may have created a problem by introducing the ryegrass.

That is not to say there are not some good commercial mixes out there. It is simply that trying to duplicate SuperMegaTrophyBuck Mix from the TV show is probably not the best way to go. If you find a commercial mix that works well in your climate and with your soils (maybe at the local coop), the seed tag could be a reasonable place to start.

One more note on the BOB mixes. They often change the ingredients based on seed prices. So, SuperMegaTrophyBuck mix may have a different seed tag in 2020 than it did in 2019.

Thanks,

Jack
 
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