help convincing farmer

[Powder]

I have a place that I just started hunting this year. There is a field of about 15 acres that the owner's cousin cuts and bales. It is mostly a grass mix. The deer are out there but I'd like to do more as this is in a very wooded area. The owner is not on the side of the farmer that cuts and bales it. The owner has said I can do what I want but I don't really want to upset the farmer since I like that he cuts and bales it.

I am thinking about suggesting to the farmer (since I think he has the equipment to do this) that I would pay for the cost of seed if he plants it. My thought is to have it planted in clover that he can bale for his cattle. I'd like a few bales but not many. What I don't know is if that is something he would want for his cattle. For those of you who know about cattle, is clover a good option for him? Would my offer be enticing? If not, what would be?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

You can over seed clover into the hayfields and grow it in conjunction with the "hay"....The biggest deer I've ever recovered with my dogs was on a farm where the farmer had all of his hay fields sown in crimson clover. He said it added protein into the first cutting of hay as well as produced nitrogen to help with hay production....Not to mention what the 100+ acres of clover was doing for the deer

 

[BenAllgood]

If you're willing to foot part of the bill, he might go for alfalfa.

 

[Powder]

Does alfalfa require irrigation? I'm in northern MN.

 

[buckdeer1]

Go broadcast clover along edge,even if hay grass tries to choke out see about mowing say 10 feet along edge to keep clover exposed and he can cut if he wants

 

[Powder]

That's an interesting idea. I never thought about over-seeding what he has. I didn't think that would take without being out-competed by the current plants.

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

You're planting dates are gonna be a lot different than mine I'm sure but if it were here in south Alabama I'd get a final cutting of hay off of it in Sept cutting it as short as I could at the time....then overseed clover into it in October or November.....I grew a little experimental patch like this for 4 years without reseeding any crimson clover....growing it from its own seed.....I learned that the key was making sure to cut the grass (hay) down low at the end of summer so that the clover could emerge without being smothered....Same principle for getting it established....I didnt do that this year and I'm not getting the clover come back in.

 

[Powder]

So should I seed after it has been mowed late summer or frost seed?

 

[Crimson n' Camo]

So should I seed after it has been mowed late summer or frost seed?

That's something probably better answered by someone more in your region....for me clover is just about always a fall planting but you're situation is likely much different

 

[Lucky_P]

As a lifelong cattleman...here in KY, clover is best planted in spring; I suspect same would be true for MN. Frost seeding on established pasture any time after Feb 1 here. I usually overseed a mix of 5 lb med. red clover and 2 lb Ladino clover per acre.Dates and species will vary, depending on location.

I grew up in UCLA (Upper Corner of Lower Alabama)... arrowleaf clover in wildlife foodplots and winter grazing fields (wheat & annual ryegrass) was planted in fall, as was crimson clover, which I rarely see this far north, though I did drill some into a thin pasture, with annual ryegrass, 10 years or so back...the crimson lasted about 2 yrs and was gone...see an occasional flower here and there in a given year, but not many.

All will benefit from you adding clover to the mix, and it requires nothing more than seed and a broadcast seeder.

 

[Buckly]

I don’t think you can go wrong by overseeing or frost seeding clover in this situation. The medium red and ladino combo sounds ideal

 

[yoderjac]

I think a lot of good pasture is a mix of clover and grasses. If it is primarily grass right now, I'd consider burning it right after the farmer bails it and then broadcasting perennial clover and running a cultipacker over it. This will provide good seed/soil contact and the grasses will bounce back from the root system. You could include Crimson (annual - reseeding in some areas), and medium red (short-lived perennial) along with the long-lived perennial clover.

Consider putting your location/usda zone in your profile for more specific recommendations based on your region.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[BobinCt]

The farmer isn’t going to plant it any better than you can. Your prob younger and if he is on board with you adding clover, I would ask him if you can try a clover in 2 acres. You just broadcast it after he cuts and bales and hope it germinates through existing field if you get some rain. If never tried it this way but I think there’s a good chance it will grow. Many hayfields already include clovers. Have you looked to see if there is clover in the field? Im located in Ct and have attempted to plant perennial plots in Spring and Fall. To me after experiencing both, it’s a no brainer to start them in the Fall with a cover crop. This situation I’m referring to is a new field, sprayed with Gly etc, not over seeding into a hayfield tho. I don’t think the farmer with object.

 

[Lucky_P]

Might also consider birdsfoot trefoil in the mix...I'm still a bit too far south for it to do well here (just north of KY/TN line), but in northern climates, it does well, even on poorer soils. Readings suggest deer & other wildlife use it readily.

Pretty sure he's not gonna want you spraying his hayfield with glyphosate; frost-seeding in late winter is a time-proven method of incorporating clovers into established pastures/hayfields, and in general, we plant legumes in spring, grasses in fall. Frost heaving/freeze-thaw cycles will work those little clover seeds into good soil contact.

You're already past any potential window of opportunity for planting clover this fall, with likelihood of germination and survival, so I'd be planning for overseeding in Feb. 2021.
'Alice' Ladino clover performed well here in our msnagement-intensive grazing system...largest leaves of any white clover we've tried. 'Will' is another good white clover variety with good disease resistance, productivity, and persistence under grazing pressure..

 

[BobinCt]

Lucky: I thought about adding it to my mix once but it’s invasive so I decided against it.

 

[j-bird]

I think you need a few questions answered first:
#1 - what is growing in there now? You need to know what your working with. Something like a type of fescue is very different than say a cool season grass like orchardgrass or timothy which is very different than say maybe some sort of warm season grass.
#2 - you need to ensure the hay guy is on board. Some folks are picky, some are not. I do know that some animals can't handle a diet heavy on clover....so you need to make sure your not adding something that is going to create an issue.
#3 - you need to know how they manage this area....if they spray for broadleaves...your screwed!
#4 - so once you know what is in there you can find out when the stand will be at it weakest....that is when you will want to overseed, whatever it is you are adding.

Some plant/seed to consider: perennial clovers, annual clovers, tree foil, alfalfa and chicory all come to mind. You could also add some more traditional fall food sources like small cereal grain like wheat or rye and maybe even some brassicas (turnips or radish) - after the last haying of the year depending on if you have a reasonable growing season left.

Try to work with the guy who cuts the hay or see if you can work out a plan to where you can get a few corners or the outer most edges of the area to work with...if you have the means to do so. Last thing either of them want to see is your trials end up creating an issue of weeds and the like.

 

[S.T.Fanatic]

Clovers take a while to dry down and thus the reason farmers don't like it in their alfalfa if they are going to bale it. If the bales get wrapped it changes things. I'd look into Freedom MR clover. No hairs and is said to dry down faster.

 

[IkemanTx]

That's an interesting idea. I never thought about over-seeding what he has. I didn't think that would take without being out-competed by the current plants.

Do you know if you are in a 1 cutting per year, 2 cuttings per year, or 2 to 3 cuttings per year area as far as hay is concerned?

If you are in a 1 or 2 cuttings only situation, I would DEFINITELY consider overseeding after his last cutting. If you REALLY want to have a good stand, I would no-till the cover after final bailing. He could even benefit so much the first year that he splits the seed cost with you after that.

Wheat, oats, rye, and barley make for very early cuttings of hay... and it could either increase his tonnage on a first cutting, or squeeze in an extra cutting on good years due to being able to cut the cereal grains much earlier in the spring.

If you are already in a 3 cuttings per year area, the final cutting will likely be late for a good cover establishment before cold weather. Otherwise, I think you sweet talk him with one of the above plans and toss in some peas, clover, and brassicas to make it more attractive to deer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Buckly]

I guess I didn’t state in my previous post but, there’s no need to do the whole field. Over seeding an acre or maybe 2 along the edges where you are hunting within range. This wouldn’t really affect hay cutting or anything to much of a degree but would benefit your hunting.

 

[Powder]

It's a once a year cutting.

The field is about 15 acres so I'm not planning on adding clover to all of it...just in a couple strategic places. I have 6-7 acres that he does not cut that I can plant with other things like brassicas and a clover/wr plot. I'm planning on splitting the 6-7 acres into 4 plots to help with rotation. I just wanted to add something easy to the some of the rest of the field to give the deer a little more room.

The upside is that the owner doesn't care if the farmer likes what I do or not. But I'd rather have him cut it each year so I'd like to stay on the farmer's good side.

My plan right now is to frost seed this spring and see what happens. If it doesn't take I can always try again after he cuts it in August. It would still give me time to add wr at the worst.