Heavy seeding rate

[ToddG]

Is there a downside to seeding heavier then the recommended rate other then cost? Also, would it be bad to plant Durana, Red, Crimson clover, and Winter Rye mixed together in the same plot. I just want to try something different. I will be shallow tilling to prepare seed bed.
Thanks,

 

[Mortenson]

Overseeding clovers should be ok. There can be big repercussions for too heavy a population of things like corn and brassicas however.

 

[bueller]

Depends on what you are seeding and how you are seeding it. I seed heavy but I have sand and do a lot of broadcasting on top. Growth of brassicas and other crops struggle if seeded to heavy. Rye and clover have more of a margin of error.

As for the mix you mention I don't see why not but I'd await a response from someone in your region.

 

[MickT]

Go by the recommended rate for grain crops. They have to grow all their biomass first, and crowding will stunt them and can seriously hurt your final grain production. You can go heavy on forage crops, especially if you need the extra plants to get past a high deer density.


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[FarmerDan]

Hard question to answer. Depends on what you expect you end solution to look like and how you manage things on the way there. There's a downside to everything. But, practically, I think it's likely hard for you to seed too heavily just based on the question you ask.

 

[Someday isle]

That's a slight concern of mine right now too. I tried my first brassica plot two weeks ago and got great germination. I knew it was a little on the heavy side but it looks like it's probably too much. Time will tell but even if I just get mostly crowded tops I'll still apply urea in two weeks and throw some rye over the top anyway and see what I can learn. I doubt the deer will care too much and it'll be fun monitoring it as the season progresses.

 

[ToddG]

Thanks for all the help. I have a pretty heavy deer population and they keep the food plots mowed down pretty good. I have seeded up to 200lbs WR and 50lbs crimson clover on a one acre plot and it never got above 3 inches.

 

[Catscratch]

I sometimes seed cereal grains heavy. I've also been know to seed them multiple times during a fall... every two weeks if there is rain. I figure that a mix of species is good, but so is a mix of plant ages. Some will be young and tender, but susceptible to hard freezes... Some will be older and less palatable, but more hardy. I might be completely off base though and just happy in my own mind.

 

[yoderjac]

Is there a downside to seeding heavier then the recommended rate other then cost? Also, would it be bad to plant Durana, Red, Crimson clover, and Winter Rye mixed together in the same plot. I just want to try something different. I will be shallow tilling to prepare seed bed.
Thanks,

Todd,

Seeding rates are designed to provide an approximate number of plants per square foot. If you think about how farmers plant corn or soybeans with a planter. They are trying to get precise plant density. The reason is that if they get too many plants too close together, they compete for resources and don't yield as much as plants at a proper density that are not competing. If they plant them too far apart, they won't canopy quickly enough (or not at all) and weeds will get established and compete with them.

When we use a planter, we are putting seeds at a pretty consistent depth with a precise spacing. They pretty much count on a very high germination percentage. Notice that broadcast rates for crops are about 30% higher than drill or planter rates. This is because germination rates will vary greatly. If you till, broadcast, and drag/cultipack, some seeds will be too deep some will be to shallow some won't get enough moisture so a lower percentage will germinate. When surface broadcast and not cultipacked, and even small percentage won't germinate.

The bottom line, when planting cereal and clover, you can vary the rates quite a bit. I'm sure there is a point where you can get to heavy, but you won't really know ahead since conditions vary from year to year. At best broadcast rates are an approximation. Soil types come into play as well.

As for mixing clovers I do it all the time, but if your objective is to establish Durana, I would skip the crimson. I've done it here in VA and my experience is that you are better off without it. The medium red is fine. Here is what happened to me. Crimson acts as a reseeding annual here. So, when I plant it for the fall with Durana, it makes a great fall plot of WR and Crimson but it is really not that much more attractive with the Crimson than without. In the following spring, the Crimson bounces back It is taller than Durana and tends to form pockets. So by the end of that summer I have a field fully of clover. The crimson is in patches and the Durana fills the rest of the field. By fall the Crimson dies out and I have empty patches in the Durana field. The following spring, the Durana takes off from the roots where it is located but there is nothing in the patches. So, summer weeds and grasses take hold in these patches.

I like both Durana and Crimson, but I no longer plant them together. Medium red seems to act differently for me. It is more scattered and comes up later in the spring than Crimson. It does not seem to leave empty patches and the Durana fills in.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[j-bird]

When I broadcast seed I tend to go a little heavy on purpose. Like was stated some plants don't do well with excessive competition and it stunts their growth. I wouldn't worry about it too much unless your way over. For the seeds you mentioned it will all work itself out. Larger grains and tubers tend to be a different story.....those can actually cause stunting and poor performance.

 

[Booner21]

I sometimes seed cereal grains heavy. I've also been know to seed them multiple times during a fall... every two weeks if there is rain. I figure that a mix of species is good, but so is a mix of plant ages. Some will be young and tender, but susceptible to hard freezes... Some will be older and less palatable, but more hardy. I might be completely off base though and just happy in my own mind.

I believe jeff Sturgis advocates doing this to always have fresh growth. Good plan

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[Catscratch]

I believe jeff Sturgis advocates doing this to always have fresh growth. Good plan

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Cool, at least I do something that isn't completely thought of as crazy. :)

 

[yoderjac]

It is certainly not crazy to mow clover regularly when it is in bloom. Once again, it depend on your objectives. If I was working with a few small clover plots for attraction, I'd probably try to maintain it as weed free as possible. The question becomes, when you are doing QDM at scale, where are your limited resources best placed. Years ago, I'd maintain lush clover fields. They were great for attraction, but clover is the anchor of my food plot program and I have many acres of it. I found that in my area (no ag except a little pasture within miles), I don't need highly attractive plots to attract deer so attraction is not a big issue for me. Providing quality food when nature is stingy is important in my QDM efforts. When it comes to feeding deer, the only food that matters is the food that ends up in the stomach of a deer. Deer are browsers by nature. When the stress period is over, if there is crop left in the field, it doesn't count in my book toward contributing to feeding deer. It says the field was sufficient to achieve the objective.

Lush monocultures of well maintained clover take resources. I found that in my case, much of the resources expended on maintaining clover were not making into the bellies of deer. I found that by starting with best establishment practices, selecting the right clover for my application, and thus starting with a very clean field, and then being very tolerant of weeds over the life of the field mowing just before the cool season advantages the clover, I can achieve the same object at a fraction of the cost in money and time. I've been able to apply that money and (mostly) time, to other habitat improvement efforts that I find more effective in achieving my long-term objectives.

Folks with different objectives from me or in different regions, may find maintaining lush monocultures of clover is a better fit for them. The real key here is that there is no one technique that will achieve all objectives. If lush monocultures of clover help you achieve your objectives, by all means, the traditional use of mowing to control broadleaf weeds and distribute seed in bloom and encouraging fresh growth along with the use of poast or cleth and 24db when needed to keep the field clean, are definitely good practices.

Thanks,

jack

 

[ToddG]

Thanks for all the great info.