Grafting Class Report - Transfered from QDMA Forums

yoderjac

5 year old buck +
I attended a grafting class (primarily for pome) today at Vintage Virginia Apples (Albemarle ciderworks) outside Charlottesville VA today. I'd guess there were about 40 folks in the class which was taught in an outdoor tent. I arrived about 0810 for a 0900 class. I got a chance to chat with Bill Shelton who is the owner for quite a while before the class and learned a lot from him. The cost of the class was $45/person. Included in the price was the grafter's handbook, two M111 rootstocks and 2 scions from the following list:
Albemarle Pippin, Arkansas Black, Ashmead's Kernel, Black Twig, Grimes Golden, Roxbury Russet, Stayman, Summer Rambo, Virginia (Hewe’s) Crab and Winesap.
I chose Arkansas Black and Black Twig. After class was over, they gave away any leftover scions and there were plenty. I grabbed a few more Arkansas Black, Black Twig, and Virginia (Hewe's) Crab. That should be more than enough for my top work this spring. I may have to get some more rootstock just for kicks.
The class was taught by Master Grafter Tom Murphy. They only taught the dormant whip and tongue graft but at least mentioned most of the others. I have previously successfully grafted jujube and persimmon with a whip and tongue which are much harder than apples, so I thought I had it down. As we were practicing, the staff walked around and evaluated our grafts and gave us some personal advice. I picked up some very useful personalized tips.
Most of my equipment was a good fit but I did pick up a few things here. First, I've always been good about keeping my grafting knife sharp but never even thought about pruners. He mentioned how important it was to keep them sharp and said if you can't, you are better off using the anvil type. After that admonishment, I did buy a sharpener for the pruning shears. I tried it out when I got home and it really did make a difference. The next equipment item was tape. For persimmon grafting I like electrical tape. The reason is that pressure is an important factor for bark grafting persimmons and electrical tape has some stretch. The downside is that it doesn't degrade and you have to slice it or remove it after the graft takes so you don't girdle the tree. For whip and tongue grafts pressure is less important, especially with pome. Tom likes to use freezer tape. It has no stretch, but he says the key with pome fruit is to keep inside moisture in and outside moisture out. Freezer tape has a moisture barrier in it that does just that. I'm sure parafilm would work as well for this, but freezer tape is easier and less expensive. Another advantage here is that it degrades naturally.
We had an interesting discussion about rootstock. He cautions against some of the newer rootstocks as they have not been "field proven" for long enough. I also specifically asked about growing crabapple seedlings and using them as rootstock. He says that for a full size tree that works very well and in fact, when rootstock was running low, he would dig up roots of full size apple trees and graft to them. He would then plant them with the graft below the ground. The grafted root would keep the tree going until it formed its own roots.
The class ran until about noon. I met folks who came in from NC, PA, and GA for the class. I didn't realize what a great resource we had locally. It was definitely a worthwhile experience for me.
Thanks,
Jack
 
Fish;826313 said:
Thanks Jack. Good report and advice.
 
Ncstewart;826325 said:
. I also specifically asked about growing crabapple seedlings and using them as rootstock.

You talking about growing them from seed?
Yes, last year I grew some from Siberian Red and Dolgo seeds in rootmakers. Folks tell me Dolgo is fairly true to seed compared to most apples. I've been slow to bring domestic apples into my program because of maintenance. That is why I started with crabapples.
I decided to experiment with a few heritage/DR domestic apple varieties. So, I plan to top-work a few of the crabs with domestic scions this spring. I was concerned because some folks suggested that this would be problematic. After taking this class, I decided my plan was pretty sound.
Thanks,
Jack
 
Ncstewart;826435 said:
Very good to know. I will definitely be growing some apple rootstock next year. So will any crabapple seed work?? I have some but have no idea what they are
As I said, this is an experiment for me. I don't know if it will work. I may find that the domestic apples are too much maintenance. So, I selected crab apple varieties that have the characteristics I want for my program.
My plan is to field graft these trees high enough to leave a few branches below the graft. If the grafts fail or I don't like the outcome, I have several options. Some crabapples are evidently more true to seed than others. Dolgo is one I selected because it seems to be more true to seed. One option is to simply remove the domestic graft and let the original crabapple grow. Another is to get Dolgo scions from a grafted Dolgo tree, remove the domestic apple graft and replace it with the Dolgo scion. That would give me a true Dolgo crab.
I use Dolgo as an example here. You could use whatever crabapple fits the characteristics you want for your program.
As you can see from the report, one of the scions I grabbed was Virginia (Hewe's) Crabapple. This is another crab that fits my program. So, that gives me the option of grafting some of the crabs I planted into them.
Here is a link for a thread where I was asking about plant tips last year. You will find a few pictures of the crabapples I grew from seed last year: https://www.qdma.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69399
Thanks,
Jack
 
dogdoc;826449 said:
Very cool Jack. I wish there was a place around here that had a grafting class. All of my classes were watching YouTube and cutting a lot of maple branches from my tree and practicing at the house. How some of my grafts took--I don't know but I have come to realize that apples and pears are very forgiving when it comes to grafting. Just make some half decent cambium contact and you are good. I watch some of these grafting experts on YouTube make a perfect cut every time and the scion and root stock line up perfect.
Glad you received some extra scions. i always look forward to grafting time. it's a lot of fun.
todd
Todd,
Thanks. I was self-taught with on-line resources as well. It was definitely worthwhile for me. I figure if I could W&T jujube and persimmon, I could probably get even better success with apples and pears. I wanted to learn more specifics about apples and I was surprised how much I benefited from the hands-on with an instructor.
Thanks again for the offer of scions. One reason I waited was that I presumed I would end up with some from the class and didn't want you to make an effort to ship them if it wasn't necessary. I've got more than enough to graft what I have this year, but I'll look for more varieties in future years.
Thanks,
Jack
 
Jack thanks for starting your 'previous' threads here to continue them. Might I suggest getting ride of the QDMA on your thread title.
sick-face-pic-240x300.jpg
 
I am going to try grafting in the spring. Would you recommend this class to a beginner? I am also thinking about taking their pruning class. I think I will use the bark graft the most.


I attended a grafting class (primarily for pome) today at Vintage Virginia Apples (Albemarle ciderworks) outside Charlottesville VA today. I'd guess there were about 40 folks in the class which was taught in an outdoor tent. I arrived about 0810 for a 0900 class. I got a chance to chat with Bill Shelton who is the owner for quite a while before the class and learned a lot from him. The cost of the class was $45/person. Included in the price was the grafter's handbook, two M111 rootstocks and 2 scions from the following list:
Albemarle Pippin, Arkansas Black, Ashmead's Kernel, Black Twig, Grimes Golden, Roxbury Russet, Stayman, Summer Rambo, Virginia (Hewe’s) Crab and Winesap.
I chose Arkansas Black and Black Twig. After class was over, they gave away any leftover scions and there were plenty. I grabbed a few more Arkansas Black, Black Twig, and Virginia (Hewe's) Crab. That should be more than enough for my top work this spring. I may have to get some more rootstock just for kicks.
The class was taught by Master Grafter Tom Murphy. They only taught the dormant whip and tongue graft but at least mentioned most of the others. I have previously successfully grafted jujube and persimmon with a whip and tongue which are much harder than apples, so I thought I had it down. As we were practicing, the staff walked around and evaluated our grafts and gave us some personal advice. I picked up some very useful personalized tips.
Most of my equipment was a good fit but I did pick up a few things here. First, I've always been good about keeping my grafting knife sharp but never even thought about pruners. He mentioned how important it was to keep them sharp and said if you can't, you are better off using the anvil type. After that admonishment, I did buy a sharpener for the pruning shears. I tried it out when I got home and it really did make a difference. The next equipment item was tape. For persimmon grafting I like electrical tape. The reason is that pressure is an important factor for bark grafting persimmons and electrical tape has some stretch. The downside is that it doesn't degrade and you have to slice it or remove it after the graft takes so you don't girdle the tree. For whip and tongue grafts pressure is less important, especially with pome. Tom likes to use freezer tape. It has no stretch, but he says the key with pome fruit is to keep inside moisture in and outside moisture out. Freezer tape has a moisture barrier in it that does just that. I'm sure parafilm would work as well for this, but freezer tape is easier and less expensive. Another advantage here is that it degrades naturally.
We had an interesting discussion about rootstock. He cautions against some of the newer rootstocks as they have not been "field proven" for long enough. I also specifically asked about growing crabapple seedlings and using them as rootstock. He says that for a full size tree that works very well and in fact, when rootstock was running low, he would dig up roots of full size apple trees and graft to them. He would then plant them with the graft below the ground. The grafted root would keep the tree going until it formed its own roots.
The class ran until about noon. I met folks who came in from NC, PA, and GA for the class. I didn't realize what a great resource we had locally. It was definitely a worthwhile experience for me.
Thanks,
Jack
 
I am going to try grafting in the spring. Would you recommend this class to a beginner? I am also thinking about taking their pruning class. I think I will use the bark graft the most.

Todd,

I enjoyed the class so much I'm thinking about taking it again. It is focused on apples and W&T is really the only graft they teach. It is a very good hands-on class for the beginner. I had done a bunch of bark grafting of persimmons for a few years before taking this class, but little of that applied to the class. I'm sure you will enjoy and benefit from it if you are just starting out.

Personally, I benefited as much from listening to the instructor talk about apples and asking questions as I did from the hands-on.

Thanks,

Jack
 
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