English Oaks
- Thread starter Teeder
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Teeder
5 year old buck +
I'm in 5b, northwestern PA. I started these from collected acorns about 16-17 years ago. I'd been watching some trees in a park where my wife played softball, and noticed they produced every year, so I thought I'd give them a try. These were my first go at raising oaks. They started producing at about 8 years old or so and rarely have a down year. I have a chestnut oak that I started that's going to produce a few nuts this year. It's surrounded by English oaks, so I'm hoping for some hybrids!
Teeder
5 year old buck +
Absolutely!
Congratulations, you have - I believe - one of the best mast producing white oak trees. Since they are not indigenous to the US, you won't usually find too many in most communities. My best EO parent tree is about 15-17 yrs old; I know it was planted 12-13 yrs ago and probably was a nursery tree at 2-3 yrs of age. Like yours, my tree fruits virtually every year with heavy production. The mature acorns, as you know, are shaped somewhat like a straight white oak acorn with one distinguishing characteristic ... as it matures and turns brown, the acorn shrinks in width and reveals ridges along the length of the acorn.
Photo #1 - EO acorns with split shells from hydration (probably from very thin shells). Photo #2 - EO acorns on parent tree photographed 4 days ago (icdentical tio yours). Photo #3 Parent tree producing these acorns, and photo #4 parent ctree with acorn load in 2020. Hope these photos will help others to identify EOs in their area. Last, I am going to attempt to cross them with swamp white coaks ... I'll let you know what happens in 15-20 yrs.
Photo #5 shows ridges on acorn and that they are easy to germinate. I often experiment (do funky things) in attempts to learn!
Photo #1 - EO acorns with split shells from hydration (probably from very thin shells). Photo #2 - EO acorns on parent tree photographed 4 days ago (icdentical tio yours). Photo #3 Parent tree producing these acorns, and photo #4 parent ctree with acorn load in 2020. Hope these photos will help others to identify EOs in their area. Last, I am going to attempt to cross them with swamp white coaks ... I'll let you know what happens in 15-20 yrs.
Photo #5 shows ridges on acorn and that they are easy to germinate. I often experiment (do funky things) in attempts to learn!
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paleopoint
5 year old buck +
Always love a good English Oak discussion.
I am a fan...... a booster. For near 50yrs.
Generally speaking, I ain't a big fan of other intentionally planted native oaks for a habitat project.
I just ain't gonna live long enough for a white oak, a bur, a pin, a red, or any of the marketed 'hybrid' oaks.....to get big enough to yield much at all.
I know. I've tried growing 'em all. And many are growing now on the farm, but they ain't producing much of anything at all. Sure, sometimes I get a decent season with one tree or another, but they just ain't dependable. Same can be said about the native sown/grown oaks of any variety.
Now, on the other hand, English Oaks.
Like the poster above mentioned I have them regularly begin producing at the 7/8 year range. (from acorn)
By 10/11 they are throwing a helluva yield of acorns.
I have trees right now on the farm that are 16yrs old (from acorn) that will drop a hundred+ pounds of nuts.
And the yields are getting bigger. Weather, of course, does impact the production, but they still have a satisfying drop every year. Far more than any native I had....natural or sown.
I first saw the amazing yields from 40yr old trees on the campus of Michigan State University in East Lansing. Huge yields. I was gobsmacked.
And shortly began collecting nuts from the heaviest producers.
I propagated them for years,(they are easy), butI now generally only grow 2 or 3 seedling each year as I've got plenty of EO's on my ground. And need to put other stuff in those sunny spots that become available.
As said by someone else, they are NOT natives and do not reach the ancient ages that European EO's reach.......hundreds and hundreds of years.
Speaking of old EO's ---- a few years ago we visited Nuremberg, Germany, as tourist travelers.
We visited the site of the famous Hitler Nuremberg Rallies at the 'rally' grounds. We've all seen the Leni Riefenstahl films of those events.....Triumph of the Will.
Anyway, right near the main podium I noticed a monstrous English Oak. The largest I had ever seen. It must be a couple hundred years old (?).
But the nut load was unbelievable.......there must of been hundreds and hundreds of pounds.....300? 400? more? I dunno, but it was huge.
So huge I pointed it out to my companions who were as amazed as I was.
Unfortunately it was in August so the acorns were weeks away from being viable.....otherwise I would have pocketed several for my seedling nursery.
The old QDMA Native Habitat forum several times had good informative EO threads. Maybe someone can search 'em out.
I am a fan...... a booster. For near 50yrs.
Generally speaking, I ain't a big fan of other intentionally planted native oaks for a habitat project.
I just ain't gonna live long enough for a white oak, a bur, a pin, a red, or any of the marketed 'hybrid' oaks.....to get big enough to yield much at all.
I know. I've tried growing 'em all. And many are growing now on the farm, but they ain't producing much of anything at all. Sure, sometimes I get a decent season with one tree or another, but they just ain't dependable. Same can be said about the native sown/grown oaks of any variety.
Now, on the other hand, English Oaks.
Like the poster above mentioned I have them regularly begin producing at the 7/8 year range. (from acorn)
By 10/11 they are throwing a helluva yield of acorns.
I have trees right now on the farm that are 16yrs old (from acorn) that will drop a hundred+ pounds of nuts.
And the yields are getting bigger. Weather, of course, does impact the production, but they still have a satisfying drop every year. Far more than any native I had....natural or sown.
I first saw the amazing yields from 40yr old trees on the campus of Michigan State University in East Lansing. Huge yields. I was gobsmacked.
And shortly began collecting nuts from the heaviest producers.
I propagated them for years,(they are easy), butI now generally only grow 2 or 3 seedling each year as I've got plenty of EO's on my ground. And need to put other stuff in those sunny spots that become available.
As said by someone else, they are NOT natives and do not reach the ancient ages that European EO's reach.......hundreds and hundreds of years.
Speaking of old EO's ---- a few years ago we visited Nuremberg, Germany, as tourist travelers.
We visited the site of the famous Hitler Nuremberg Rallies at the 'rally' grounds. We've all seen the Leni Riefenstahl films of those events.....Triumph of the Will.
Anyway, right near the main podium I noticed a monstrous English Oak. The largest I had ever seen. It must be a couple hundred years old (?).
But the nut load was unbelievable.......there must of been hundreds and hundreds of pounds.....300? 400? more? I dunno, but it was huge.
So huge I pointed it out to my companions who were as amazed as I was.
Unfortunately it was in August so the acorns were weeks away from being viable.....otherwise I would have pocketed several for my seedling nursery.
The old QDMA Native Habitat forum several times had good informative EO threads. Maybe someone can search 'em out.
Thanks for the kind words TreeDaddy; however, I - like many others on this site - continue to frequently learn new aspects about habitat development and most - if not all - are eager and willing to share their experiences with others. It's what makes HT such a great site!
A little update to photo 2 in my post above (EO acorns in early stage of development); attached are photos showing further developed acorns on the same tree after a little more than 2 weeks of additional growth. Sometimes referred to as peduncle oaks, EOs and SWOs are the 2 white oak acorns that grow on the end of a 2-3" stem ... often in pairs.
Great piece on understanding peduncle oaks ... https://charlois.com/en/how-to-recognize-pedunculate-and-sessile-oak/
I thought folks might enjoy seeing the acorn load this tree is carrying and the large number of multi-acorn clusters scattered throughout the tree. At this stage, the acorns resemble those of the swamp white oak tree with regard to their shape. Also, the final shape of the acorn is becomming more apparent. The elongated shape that is similar to a white oak acorn is more defined. Finally, Its going to throw a lot of mast for a relatively young tree. Hope folks enjoy.
P.S. I added a 5th photo that shows their final shape turning brown in Sept 2020
A little update to photo 2 in my post above (EO acorns in early stage of development); attached are photos showing further developed acorns on the same tree after a little more than 2 weeks of additional growth. Sometimes referred to as peduncle oaks, EOs and SWOs are the 2 white oak acorns that grow on the end of a 2-3" stem ... often in pairs.
Great piece on understanding peduncle oaks ... https://charlois.com/en/how-to-recognize-pedunculate-and-sessile-oak/
I thought folks might enjoy seeing the acorn load this tree is carrying and the large number of multi-acorn clusters scattered throughout the tree. At this stage, the acorns resemble those of the swamp white oak tree with regard to their shape. Also, the final shape of the acorn is becomming more apparent. The elongated shape that is similar to a white oak acorn is more defined. Finally, Its going to throw a lot of mast for a relatively young tree. Hope folks enjoy.
P.S. I added a 5th photo that shows their final shape turning brown in Sept 2020
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Teeder,
I believe these photos are acorns on chestnut and swamp chestnut oak trees. While they do grow on a stem, I have never seen one with a perduncle up 3-4" long. Perhaps there are other white oak trees with a 3-4 inch stem that I am not aware of ... as I told TD .... I,m always ready to learn. Thanks for suggesting other oaks to consider; both of your choices would make good habitat trees in certain locations.
I believe these photos are acorns on chestnut and swamp chestnut oak trees. While they do grow on a stem, I have never seen one with a perduncle up 3-4" long. Perhaps there are other white oak trees with a 3-4 inch stem that I am not aware of ... as I told TD .... I,m always ready to learn. Thanks for suggesting other oaks to consider; both of your choices would make good habitat trees in certain locations.
Teeder
5 year old buck +
That's interesting.
I found where I got that from, Ohio DNR.
"Swamp White Oak along with Swamp Chestnut Oak, Chestnut Oak, and English Oak, is known for the long peduncles that attach to its acorns although Swamp White Oak has the thickest peduncles of the four mentioned."
I do have one chestnut oak, but it's only produced acorns 1 year and honestly, I can't remember if it had a peduncle or not. I'm pretty sure it's going to have acorns this year, but they are very high up. I'll have to take some binos over to look closer.
I found where I got that from, Ohio DNR.
"Swamp White Oak along with Swamp Chestnut Oak, Chestnut Oak, and English Oak, is known for the long peduncles that attach to its acorns although Swamp White Oak has the thickest peduncles of the four mentioned."
I do have one chestnut oak, but it's only produced acorns 1 year and honestly, I can't remember if it had a peduncle or not. I'm pretty sure it's going to have acorns this year, but they are very high up. I'll have to take some binos over to look closer.
Teeder,
While I have yet to see a CO or SCO - or a picture o one - displaying a long peduncle, you have reported the ODNR description accurately ....
ODNR says ....
"Chestnut Oak along with Swamp Chestnut Oak, Swamp White Oak, and English Oak is known for the long penduncles that attach to its shiny acorns, which ripen in early to mid-autumn."
Therefore, accepting the ODNR assertion, we might include at least 4 white oak trees as peduncle oaks. Hope your CO rapidly increases the number of acorns it produces. Thanks for the input.
While I have yet to see a CO or SCO - or a picture o one - displaying a long peduncle, you have reported the ODNR description accurately ....
ODNR says ....
"Chestnut Oak along with Swamp Chestnut Oak, Swamp White Oak, and English Oak is known for the long penduncles that attach to its shiny acorns, which ripen in early to mid-autumn."
Therefore, accepting the ODNR assertion, we might include at least 4 white oak trees as peduncle oaks. Hope your CO rapidly increases the number of acorns it produces. Thanks for the input.
