Drill large seeds, broadcast smaller seeds or drill all?

[ProcraftMike]

I have a 2 row, JD Flex 71 planter. I normally use this for soybeans and buckwheat, but I would like to plant a seed blend this spring/early summer that would also incorporate some turnips, rape and clover. I messed with the planter seed plates last fall and it does disperse the mix fairly well, even though the seeds differ greatly in size. I figure I would use a seed plate just slightly larger than the largest seed in the mix (soybean), test the seeding rate and use pelletized lime with the seed mix to get the correct seed/acre ratio.

Would you drill a blend like this in rows, or would it be better to drill the larger seeds (beans, buckwheat), then turn around and broadcast the smaller seeds and cultipack? I know the more thatch that I have, the more sense it would make to drill the blend instead. Drilling all... it is once and done, vs. the extra work of broadcasting. But, if this is planted in rows, it may allow more room for weeds to grow between the rows and not be shaded out, vs. more random when broadcast. Planter is set at 30" spacing. I normally double up and reduce that to 15" spacing.

Just looking for some opinions here to help in my decision for those that may plant a blend that involves 4-6 different types of seed and your experience doing so. Thanks!!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I'd give more weight to input from others that are more experienced, but maybe broadcast small seeds before planting big seeds and then when you drive over you'll help get seed soil contact? Even 15" spacing seems like a lot for the small stuff.

 

[bigboreblr]

Id question the evenness of the stand with the soybeans. Could see a clump of smaller seed offsetting a bean hole. There is noticeable size difference between types of soybean and corn.

I dont have any planting equipment like that. However, I have successfully grown turnips, daikon raddish, grains, clovers, peas, and vetch by broadcast spreading.

This is what I do with what I got. I primarily use spring tine harrows. Spray the stuff dead, sometime I mow before I harrow, sometimes not. Dpending if there enough to clog the harrows up. I till deepr if I am putting a good bit of lime, or a heavier application of pottasium or phosphorus. I make atleast an inch of seedbed. I spread most of the fertilizer with the larger seeds and maybe 1/3 of the smaller seeds. I strip it in one pass with the harrow one light, maybe sticking out 1 inch from the frame. Then I spread the small seeds, usually mixed with pelletized lime os it's easier to get an even spread. Then If the seedbed is nicely preppared, just roll it in with my ATV tires. If not, maybe another light harrow pass or a tire drag.

If I had what you have for a planter. I'd put most of the fetilizer / lime down, prepare your field with discs , maybe cultipack if the seedbed isn't nicely broken into small pieces and level. Spread the small seed with enough pelletized lime or fertilizer to make it work with what you got.. Then leave the spacing around 20 inches with the soybeans and plant. Then cultipack it all in. I would likely make a small drag to go behind that planter, to sitr in the small seeds to about a 1/4 inch. Like a chunk of chain link fence, or wire sized hay rake drag tine, or a foot long 3/8" chain every inch to 2 inches. centuries old AG equipment would just use a board on a hinge to stire it up a bit.

You could look into possibly converting that planter to work in no till. Might be able to put cleaner discs ahead of the planter to dethatch a row for that planter. Might not work great with grains, but agressive legumes like crimson or balsana clover, you mght get away without the planter clogging.

I have never planted soybeans. It just wouldnt survive with the low amount of good good and the size I plant. However, numerous people on here have planted soybeans in a no till manner without the need of a planter. Although some use no till planters to put them in too.

That planter could go for a nice $1500+ dollars by me in NY. Smaller AG equipment sells for more than big stuff. A woods seeder or brillion cultipacker styled seeder might give you more options.

There are a few outfits that sell add on seed boxes to existing ag equipment. Like a brush style variable speed electric drive seed box you could bolt on ahead of a set of disc cultivators, or s tine or spring tine harrows. One or two outfits sells tubes you can bolt to s tine harrows and drop seed right behind the spring, or behind a disc opening. Just Add some depth control wheels and you got a versatile planter. microplots makes one.

There's also other broadcast options to soybeans, like winter peas, cow or field peas.

 

[bigboreblr]

I deally, turnips want to be 1/2 inch deep or so. Not sure on canola or rape. I used it one year treated it like small seed and it came out well, just wasnt well recieved by my wildlife. Clovers, usually 1/4 to 1/8" for most clovers. Medium red and I think crimson can handle down to 1/2". MY guess is you'll loose some turnips and rape germination maybe up to 1/2 of it, and probably 3/4s of the clover will not sprout.

This is assuming you set the discs to 1 inch.

 

[Wild Thing]

Drill all at once if you have a drill. Plant the large seed with the planter and broadcast the smaller seed if all you have is the planter.

That would be my recommendation anyway. I used to have a 4 row JD Planter (7000) but all I ever planted with it was corn and beans - never any small seed.

With my no-till drill I have been planting many different combinations of seed in one pass. This is what I have been planting (drilling) the past couple of years for a cover crop - a 12 seed blend in one pass:



Large seed goes in the large seed box...



Small seed is mixed and goes in the small seed box...









Seed from each box is calibrated independently and seed from both boxes is planted at the appropriate depth.

 

[Diesel5610]

I am with Wild Thing. With your planter I would plant and then broadcast.

 

[ProcraftMike]

Thanks, everyone!! The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to plant the larger seeds, like buckwheat and soybeans, but broadcast the smaller seeds. In the end it’s more work, but I think the results will be much better.

A lot of my plots are in muck soils, which are very soft and flood out most springs. I use this planter like a no till drill. I haven’t worked up my plots in years.

 

[bigboreblr]

Wild Thing,

whats is smorgasboard? Mystery mix?

Procraft Mike,

Have a hand broadcast spreader and a rake handy. IF flooded out spots are bare, spread some oats and just mix it into the soil with the backside of a rake quickly. Since these plots havent been worked in years, I might pass on the soybeans. Could plant some oats and choke out the weed or buckwheat in the early summer. You might be ble to work in some drainage into the equation. A few pases with an ATV in the muck can make a drainage line pretty quick.

 

[Wild Thing]

Wild Thing,

whats is smorgasboard? Mystery mix?

LOL - Happy that you asked BigBoreBlr

It was a bunch of really old sample seed packets I got from Whitetail Institute years ago. I just happened to run across them in the bottom of a box when I was mixing up my seed last year. Figured I might as well get rid of them so I just mixed the seed in with the rest of my small seed. It made a real colorful blend with all of the different colored coatings....but I'm not sure if any of it actually germinated. But at least I cleaned out everything in the storage box

 

[Wind Gypsy]

Drill all at once if you have a drill. Plant the large seed with the planter and broadcast the smaller seed if all you have is the planter.

That would be my recommendation anyway. I used to have a 4 row JD Planter (7000) but all I ever planted with it was corn and beans - never any small seed.

With my no-till drill I have been planting many different combinations of seed in one pass. This is what I have been planting (drilling) the past couple of years for a cover crop - a 12 seed blend in one pass:

View attachment 42246

Large seed goes in the large seed box...

View attachment 42247

Small seed is mixed and goes in the small seed box...

View attachment 42248

View attachment 42249

View attachment 42250

View attachment 42251

Seed from each box is calibrated independently and seed from both boxes is planted at the appropriate depth.

Do you have hunting season pics of a plot with that blend? What dates do you typically plant?

 

[Wild Thing]

Do you have hunting season pics of a plot with that blend? What dates do you typically plant?

I've got some from 2 years ago - my computer crashed and I lost last years' pics...

I am in zone 4b so ideally I should be planting this cover crop in early to mid-August but in 2020 I didn't get it drilled until August 28th = only a couple weeks or so before our average first frost date.

Here it is not quite a month later on September 25th



October 8th



October 8th



October 13th



The following May 17th when I drilled sugar beets on the left side of it.



May 26th



June 11th



June 16th



August 7th when I mowed it to get a free crop of new rye



3 weeks later on August 30th - While it doesn't show well yet here - there is a ton of new rye coming in just from mowing it when the seed was viable.



So this is one year in the life of the cover crop. I drilled in on August 28th, 2020 and mowed it on August 7th 2021 - I didn't do anything else to it other than mow it once. It has been feeding my deer for nearly 2 years and I plan to terminate this in early June and drill sugar beets into it. I do not plan to fertilize it at all so time will tell just how much nutrients have been banked here since I planted it. I will drill brassicas into a similar cover crop in July and do not plan to fertilize that either.

I guess I should point out that while my deer do forage my cover crops, my primary goal for planting them is for soil building, soil health and nutrient cycling. I have plenty of other deer forage in other or adjacent plots consisting of alfalfa, clovers, sugar beets, brassicas, etc.

 

[bigboreblr]

Wild Thing,

The vetch overwintered? Hairy vetch? I planted some in august in zone 3A. None came back. Could of been devoured by deer n snowshoe hares. Grouse do a number to my plots too, especially when growth is young. Finally got a turnip crop to grow up there.

 

[Wild Thing]

Wild Thing,

The vetch overwintered? Hairy vetch? I planted some in august in zone 3A. None came back. Could of been devoured by deer n snowshoe hares. Grouse do a number to my plots too, especially when growth is young. Finally got a turnip crop to grow up there.

Yes - Hairy Vetch and Crimson clover both overwinter fine here. Southern Upper Michigan just north of the Wisconsin line - zone 4b. You may just be a little too far north.

 

[bigboreblr]

Yes - Hairy Vetch and Crimson clover both overwinter fine here. Southern Upper Michigan just north of the Wisconsin line - zone 4b. You may just be a little too far north.

Its hard to tell where I am...... You look at the property on google maps..... dark green trees everywhere. The only 2 blips of bright green are my plots. There's birch hunter who select trees and log here n there and paper company loggers who do small clear cuts here n there. The birch guys make a big mess of our trails. the paper guys make their own path.

Guys in the club spend a few years and not see one deer........ Kicked out 4 does in my foodplot 2 weeks ago frostseeding clover. Fall of 2020 was great. Sitting on the treestand mid october and there's atleast a dozen grouse in the plot. the males are fighting in october. Never seen that before. The wife wants me to take 1 deer a year. So I alternate between my house, my brother in laws 450 acre planting, and hunting camp. The 450 acre is this year's turn. bought a 6x12 enclosed trailer in january. Got to insulate it, add a heater, windows, electric, add a shelf for the V-nose section, and get sliders in it for the sleds. Will be a ton better than waking up 3am to drive 90 minutes there.....

 

[Wild Thing]

Its hard to tell where I am...... You look at the property on google maps..... dark green trees everywhere. The only 2 blips of bright green are my plots. There's birch hunter who select trees and log here n there and paper company loggers who do small clear cuts here n there. The birch guys make a big mess of our trails. the paper guys make their own path.

Guys in the club spend a few years and not see one deer........ Kicked out 4 does in my foodplot 2 weeks ago frostseeding clover. Fall of 2020 was great. Sitting on the treestand mid october and there's atleast a dozen grouse in the plot. the males are fighting in october. Never seen that before. The wife wants me to take 1 deer a year. So I alternate between my house, my brother in laws 450 acre planting, and hunting camp. The 450 acre is this year's turn. bought a 6x12 enclosed trailer in january. Got to insulate it, add a heater, windows, electric, add a shelf for the V-nose section, and get sliders in it for the sleds. Will be a ton better than waking up 3am to drive 90 minutes there.....

We see a lot of grouse in our clovers mostly although I have also seen them in brassica plots. Had a trail cam pic (one that I lost on the computer crash) that had 8 or 9 grouse in one frame in a brassica plot.

Sounds like camp life is going to get a lot more comfy for you this year. Sometimes I wish I had a heater in my snowmobile trailer to melt the snow off the sleds. I get by with a propane blower type heater but having the proper heat would be nice. Just make sure you have good ventilation when you install yours.

I hook up this heater in the barn and run it to melt ice off the sleds. I had a carbon monoxide detector going but it never showed anything. I had a couple of doors cracked but I think I may have a defective CO detector. Hard to believe running that thing for 3 or 4 hours wouldn't produce some CO.





I believe mine is 7 X 18. Fits 2 long track sleds fairly comfortably.

 

[bigboreblr]

I've used those salamander heater for years. your ok to use. I got a 2 car garage and I leave the doors all closed and have no problems with that heater.

Nice enduro. When my 2010 polaris IQ touring finally dies, Im getting either an enduro or grand touring SE in 900 ace non-turbo. Wife has a 2020 grand touring 600 ace sport. Old polaris has 9800 miles. Might crack the engine apart and replace the pistons this summer and rebuild the clutches.

Gonna be snug with (2) 137"'s in a 6x12. But, its been done many times before. I dont trailer the sleds. I rent a cabin from the campground in old forge, NY. Not sure how much longer I will be a season long sledder. Poor snow levels, bad grooming, short seasons, and a bad disc in my neck tell me I'm not too much long for this sport. I'll always ride a couple times each year. Did about 2200 miles from 3rd week of january till end of febuary.

 

[Wild Thing]

I've used those salamander heater for years. your ok to use. I got a 2 car garage and I leave the doors all closed and have no problems with that heater.

Nice enduro. When my 2010 polaris IQ touring finally dies, Im getting either an enduro or grand touring SE in 900 ace non-turbo. Wife has a 2020 grand touring 600 ace sport. Old polaris has 9800 miles. Might crack the engine apart and replace the pistons this summer and rebuild the clutches.

Gonna be snug with (2) 137"'s in a 6x12. But, its been done many times before. I dont trailer the sleds. I rent a cabin from the campground in old forge, NY. Not sure how much longer I will be a season long sledder. Poor snow levels, bad grooming, short seasons, and a bad disc in my neck tell me I'm not too much long for this sport. I'll always ride a couple times each year. Did about 2200 miles from 3rd week of january till end of febuary.

Good to know. I already bought a new CO detector so I will try that out next winter just to make sure but I did think it unusual to get a zero reading with the first one. It is a fairly large barn and I did have a door or two cracked so maybe I don't have anything to be concerned about.

I rode nothing but Polaris for nearly 40 years before we switched to Ski Doo. We started out with the short track 600 Ace'. I could get 2 of them in a 12' trailer if I pulled one in and backed the second one on.



These are our 600 Ace sleds...



and these are the 2020 900 Ace Enduros. Love the 4 strokes and of course the longer tracks.



We left for Florida on February 11th so that really cut our sledding season short. Won't do that again. Hopefully I've still got more years to ride. Many of my buds have had to give it up due to bad backs. 1,500 - 2,000 miles per season is about right for me I think. Only got 800 this year.

We can and do ride from home but the best sledding is up in the Lake Superior watershed counties so we do trailer up that way a lot. The bottom photo is overlooking Copper Harbor at the tip of the Keweenaw Peninsula - about as far north as you can go and still be in Michigan.

 

[TreeDaddy]

Drill all at once if you have a drill. Plant the large seed with the planter and broadcast the smaller seed if all you have is the planter.

That would be my recommendation anyway. I used to have a 4 row JD Planter (7000) but all I ever planted with it was corn and beans - never any small seed.

With my no-till drill I have been planting many different combinations of seed in one pass. This is what I have been planting (drilling) the past couple of years for a cover crop - a 12 seed blend in one pass:

View attachment 42246

Large seed goes in the large seed box...

View attachment 42247

Small seed is mixed and goes in the small seed box...

View attachment 42248

View attachment 42249

View attachment 42250

View attachment 42251

Seed from each box is calibrated independently and seed from both boxes is planted at the appropriate depth.

Do you have a spring recipe?

Thanks,

bill

 

[Wild Thing]

Do you have a spring recipe?

Thanks,

bill

This is what I came up with for this year:

 

[bigboreblr]

Wow, just about thre the kitchen sink in that mix.

10 lbs an acre of oats.... Never seen a plot that low with that in there...... With all thats in there, it should be that low.