Disc vs. tiller

Snowshoe Acres

A good 3 year old buck
I own a JD 4044 and my next implement for food plots is a tiller or a disc. I have a lot of virgin soil to be prepared so there are rocks and stumps that I will have to deal with. Tiller is thorough, but slow. Disc is faster but requires a few passes. Since I have never owned either, would like to hear positives and negatives of each from you.
 
I would start by watching some of the "Ray the Soil Guy" videos and checking out the T&M thread that Crimson N Camo started on this board. Tillage, deep and frequent can really damage soil health and nutrient cycling ability. Ray discusses the principles of no-till aimed primarily at farmers. CNC demonstrates how those principles can be applied with small equipment for the food plotter.

I've used both. In my early years, I ruined a lot of soil with a 2-bottom plow and a tiller. With traditional tillage, in addition to he soil health damage, rocks and tillers don't mix well and tines don't last long.

I eventually learned I could use the tiller for "min-till" which may be needed with some soil types like low OM clay that tend to crust. I would lift it with the 3-pt hitch so the tines barely hit the top inch or so of soil. My fields now look more green than brown when I'm done with the tiller. As my soils have recovered, I'm doing a lot more no-till T&M type operations. I also got a small used 4' Kasco no-till Versa-drill for planting large seed like beans and corn. Most stuff I T&M now. My nutrient cycling and OM have improved to the point where I haven't used commercial fertilizer for over 5 years now with no ill effect.

You can also use a disc for min till if it is not too heavy and set fairly straight.

Once you have the techniques nailed down, you will be able to find the tool that fits best, if either.

I have a nice heavy disc, but it is primarily used for firebreaks, not food plots.

Thanks,

Jack
 
With rocks and stumps, I would advise a disc and not the tiller. Tillers make some pretty plots and while I like mine to be pretty, the deer do not care what they look like.
 
Don't work it if you can help it
 
I like both for different applications. The nice thing about a tiller is that it can act as a pretty decent roller/crimper if you allow the tines to free roll over the plot. But with rocks and stumps I would do a disc for now. You can always add a tiller later on if you end up pulling stumps.

With a disc and a cultipacker you can create a beautiful seed bed.
 
Disc can take abuse and bad terrain a lot better than a tiller. For your application it sounds like a disc is your best bet.
 
I agree with those advising a disc. I now only use my tiller in my garden. If I was only planting a couple of food plots and absolutely, positively wanted them to have the best chance for success, I would spray the area, I would bush hog after it died down, and I would disk thoroughly to smooth the area, remove the big rocks, limbs, and other debris - to make planting easier and more efficient in the future. You can decide later how best to plant down the road. I use all manner of planting methods - from spray and throwing seed - to dedicated planting equipment. In my experience, the better the seed bed is prepared, the higher the chance for a successful planting. You do have to consider which method your ground is best suited.
 
A tiller is nice for smaller plots, less than an acre. For anything one acre or larger, a disc is the way to go IMO. Much faster. You mention rocks, stumps.. Disc is also more desirable here.

If you get a true box frame disc, the gangs will be adjustable and you can straighten them after you disc to break up the clumps and better prepare the seedbed. (FYI - An angle frame is a lot lighter.. A cute toy but doesn't do much to disc the soil).

Box Frame Disc below. Heavier, more versatile..

1635445744733.png

Result looks like this, after straightening:

2021-09-02 Center Plant.jpg

Lastly, if you go with a disc - Don't get anything wider than 6' for that tractor. The issue isn't power, but rather weight on a compact tractor. Even in MFWD, if you don't have Ag tires you won't be able to use that power. Utility tractor = Different story..
 
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A tiller is nice for smaller plots, less than an acre. For anything one acre or larger, a disc is the way to go IMO. Much faster. You mention rocks, stumps.. Disc is also more desirable here.

If you get a true box frame disc, the gangs will be adjustable and you can straighten them after you disc to break up the clumps and better prepare the seedbed. (FYI - An angle frame is a lot lighter.. A cute toy but doesn't do much to disc the soil).

Box Frame Disc below. Heavier, more versatile..

View attachment 38125

Result looks like this, after straightening:

View attachment 38124

Lastly, if you go with a disc - Don't get anything wider than 6' for that tractor. The issue isn't power, but rather weight on a compact tractor. Even in MFWD, if you don't have Ag tires you won't be able to use that power. Utility tractor = Different story..
That is exactly what I don't want my plots to look like when I'm done. :emoji_smile:
 
To each his own :emoji_wink:

Yes, that's why I suggested that the OP first take a deep dive into what techniques before choosing equipment.
 
Yes, that's why I suggested that the OP first take a deep dive into what techniques before choosing equipment.

Sounds like he's already narrowed it down if he's asking the question.

I've said on this forum many times before, in a perfect world we'd all love to have our own no til drills. Not everyone finds the results they want by food plotting with a lawn mower.

The guy asked about two different implements and you immediately go to shaming him on soil tillage?? Take the wet blanket elsewhere man.
 
Sounds like he's already narrowed it down if he's asking the question.

I've said on this forum many times before, in a perfect world we'd all love to have our own no til drills. Not everyone finds the results they want by food plotting with a lawn mower.

The guy asked about two different implements and you immediately go to shaming him on soil tillage?? Take the wet blanket elsewhere man.

There is a wide array of techniques that don't require a no-till drill. Check out the CNC thread. I'm not shaming anyone, including you. You are no place that I have not been in the past. Anything I can do to save others the problems I've caused myself is worthwhile. Some will pay attention and others will not. Some learn from the mistakes of others, some need to make them themselves to learn.

Also, keep in mind that good fertile soils can tolerate the abuse of deep and frequent tillage much better than the marginal soils that many of us are on. Everyone needs to find the right balance for their situation. I was simply pointing the OP to some good resources. I've got a beautiful 2-bottom plow, almost brand new, that is now rusting as a lawn ornament. That was money foolishly spent that could have much better been applied elsewhere in my program.
 
There is a wide array of techniques that don't require a no-till drill. Check out the CNC thread.

I'm aware of it, I check in on it from time to time. I've actually been using TnM grains & frost seeding clover on a small 1/4 acre hidey hole plot on the back of the property for close to 10 years now. Terrain, a few creek crossings etc.. limits equipment access. It works for its intended purpose.

1635533637243.png

Planting 1 acre and larger plots, I'm happy to use the disc until the drill comes along.. :emoji_thumbsup:
 
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I'm aware of it, I check in on it from time to time. I've actually been using TnM on a small 1/4 acre hidey hole plot on the back of the property for close to 10 years now. Terrain, a few creek crossings etc.. limits equipment access. It works for its intended purpose.

Planting 1 acre and larger plots, I'm happy to use the disc until the drill comes along.
If your soils are fertile enough to handle it, and you are willing to spend $ on fertilizer, you can get pretty farm looking plots doing that. However, for deer management for the long term and for folks on marginal soils, minimizing tillage, both in frequency and depth, can provide great deer plots with a good mix of ugly weeds that deer just love. As I'm absorbing some of Dr. Harper's research, I'm moving even more into the camp of bending nature slightly to favor deer over the long haul.

My journey has been over many, many years, and I have no distain for anyone figuring out their path. Regional and soil differences means that some approaches will work better in different locations than others. Minimizing tillage can be done with all levels of equipment, not just big no-till drills and lawnmowers. I use a 3pt broadcast spreader rather than my little Kasco no-till versa-drill for most of my min and no till plots. A tiller or light disc can be used with a min-till approach. Even thought the CNC thread is titled T&M, it covers a wide variety of approaches that apply the principles of preserving soil health and nutrient cycling abilities of the soil.

Thanks,

Jack
 
Ok, if I were to choose between a tiller and a disc, it’s going to be a disc, thanks for the great replies. That being said, I can’t find a used one and a new one is $4k. What is the brand of a good quality no till versa drill? And does everyone need a cultipacker?
 
Actually versadrill is a specific model that is made by Kasco. I bought mine used for about 3K. Keep in mind, it is not a big-boy drill like Tye some of the others. It works for me, after a fashion. Search Kasco on this forum and you'll find a lot of details on the pros and cons from my posts. I have to say, I haven't use mine in a few years. I used it for RR Forage soybeans with a light mix of corn for a number of years. We ended up with an infestation of Marestail. I stopped planting RR crops to deal with the problem. I found that a mix of sunn hemp and buckwheat cover my summer stress period just as well as the beans. Most everything I plant now is surface broadcast. Three are some things the drill works fine for. Drilling brassica and cereal rye into suppressed well established perennial clover is one.

For the most part, I'm doing min-til/no-till surface broadcast for most everything now.

Thanks,

Jack
 
New plots and dealing with rocks and stumps.....where have I heard that phrase before? My opinion is get a disc for starting to work things. At some point even with TnM or TnP (pray) you will get tired of working around said rocks and stumps and will want to remove them and smooth things out from all the bomb craters you just created. Once you get things leveled, which will take moving dirt (ok you purists, maybe it's soil) you can take a TnM approach later if you so desire. At least at that point you can drive around your plot with a sprayer and not jar your spine all day long.

I have a 20 yr older version of a JD 4044 which is the JD 4600. If you load the rear tires, have a FEL, and 4WD you can run up to a 7.5 ft 3 pt disc unless you have real heavy clay soils. The old style pull discs you can do an 8 fter cause I've seen it done with an old TO-30 and that rig is not 4 WD and lighter than these newer compact rigs. My $.02
 
Ok, if I were to choose between a tiller and a disc, it’s going to be a disc, thanks for the great replies. That being said, I can’t find a used one and a new one is $4k.

How big of a disc are you looking for? Unless you’re looking for a 10’ disc, $4k is insanely high. And that tractor can’t pull anything like that..

Here is the 6’ we have below ($2k), similar to Titan (7300 Series) use on a compact LS (50 HP). You may even want a 5’ wide max with that tractor if you get a box frame, but we have a lot of clay here. Compact tractors are pretty light, their pulling power is limited without Ag tires, even in MFWD..

 
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We paid $2,500 for a heavy 3pt 6' disc delivered from Everything Attachments (ETA-XD-BFDH-20-20-N). It is a bit too heavy for min-till food plots even when adjusted to the least aggressive position. It works well for our purposes, disking firebreaks before controlled burns. It is sized for my 45 hp 4x4 tractor. We have a smaller JD 790 that can't lift it. I'd go with something much lighter for min-till.
 
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