Direct Seeding trees/shrubs

[Brian662]

Has anyone done this? Minnesota has a program called field to forest and its goal is to create timbered ground where there is currently ag or pasture.
I'm going to enroll 4 acres of my pasture (hillside) ground. The options are to plant seedlings or do a "direct seeding" with tree/shrub seeds. This is the route that I'd like to go. My hope is to overwhelm the deer because planting seedlings without protection has always been a recipe for over browse. If I can get a good catch on the seed, my hope is they jump out of the ground pretty quick and can get ahead of the deer.

What does everything think of that idea? The biggest issue will likely be keeping the grasses at bay, but I think eventually the woody component will get in front of the broadleaf forbs and the end result may be beneficial. Either way it will be better than cool season grasses!

 

[Wind Gypsy]

I've never done it but found this video related to such planting interesting a while back.

I like the idea in theory. Might not be as clean as planting switchgrass? I'd think some timely cleth sprayings could keep grass knocked back pretty good?

What incentives is MN giving for such a thing?

 

[Brian662]

I've seen that video and that's kind of what I'm going for. I have plenty of switchgrass already, looking to get more of a woody component in other areas. Some fallow areas of old farm fields that I've let go have become basically 12-15' tall box elder thickets but I'm looking for more diversity than that.

 

[RGrizzzz]

How much other browse is around? If it's not much, I'd expect these things to get hammered without and protection.

You could always consider spraying them to keep critters off. I use this product at home, and it lasts all winter. It really keeps the deer off. They might take a nibble but quickly decide they don't want to continue.

https://www.siteone.com/en/9999900255-deer-free-winter-armor-shrub-repellent/p/574231

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Can you spray round-up in April to kill off the cool season grasses first?

Would you simply broadcast the seed on the field and then disk over it, or what is your planting plan? It should work in theory, especially if done at a large enough scale to overwhelm the over browse potential. I do know that deer are pretty good at finding preferred browse regardless of where they are growing.

If the deer over browse the planting and it fails, do you have to give the money back? I've been slowly planting trees on several acres of old pasture, but I've just done it on my own dime. This program sounds interesting though.

 

[Brian662]

Part of the contract as I'm aware (not enrolled yet) is site prep which would include spraying the grasses. I believe there is also cost share for follow up spraying of the grasses. I don't know anything about the contract in regards to paying it back.

My plan would be to drill the seed in with my 3p600 similar to the video that Wind Gypsy linked earlier. The forester wanted me to disc the seed in, but I'm not willing to do that because of erosion. I think going straight up and down the hill on my tractor shouldn't be an issue.

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

Part of the contract as I'm aware (not enrolled yet) is site prep which would include spraying the grasses. I believe there is also cost share for follow up spraying of the grasses. I don't know anything about the contract in regards to paying it back.

My plan would be to drill the seed in with my 3p600 similar to the video that Wind Gypsy linked earlier. The forester wanted me to disc the seed in, but I'm not willing to do that because of erosion. I think going straight up and down the hill on my tractor shouldn't be an issue.

Can your seed drill handle large seeds or would you be only planting trees with smaller seeds?

I remember watching a Bill Winke video (at least I think that's who it was) and he disked, broadcast and disked acorns and walnuts into an area like you are describing. It looked like a good method, but I'm not sure how it turned out

 

[Brian662]

Can your seed drill handle large seeds or would you be only planting trees with smaller seeds?

I remember watching a Bill Winke video (at least I think that's who it was) and he disked, broadcast and disked acorns and walnuts into an area like you are describing. It looked like a good method, but I'm not sure how it turned out

I don't think acorns would go through it but ash, elm, maple, etc should be no problem

 

[The Fishman]

I believe this is the video that Ben referred to. The disadvantage to what Bill Winke did is that you will not be able to mow around trees where the acorns are just thrown out so you will need to come up with a way to control competing vegetation. Spraying would be one method. I have direct seeded several thousand acorns and have a few trees to show for it. Controlling competing vegetation is key.

 

[Brian662]

I believe this is the video that Ben referred to. The disadvantage to what Bill Winke did is that you will not be able to mow around trees where the acorns are just thrown out so you will need to come up with a way to control competing vegetation. Spraying would be one method. I have direct seeded several thousand acorns and have a few trees to show for it. Controlling competing vegetation is key.

Yeah, I've seen his follow up video on that area and there are a pretty decent amount of oaks growing, they're a few feet tall now. Bill has a much lower deer density than we do here in MN, I don't think it would be near as successful here, however I do plan to include some oaks just not sure how I'll get them in the ground.

I expect the deer in my area to hit the growing trees hard but just hope they can eventually get ahead, even if it takes 3 to 5 years. The area doesn't have cover now, so I don't need it to be instant cover.

 

[Teeder]

I would do the oaks separately after the drilling, then cage or tube them.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Yes - I'd cage any oaks as Teeder said above. Oaks are a favorite browse for deer, and any young oaks would likely get eaten to the ground without cages. Deer density is a big factor on whether you can "outplant" the deer with direct-seeded trees and brushy plants. Around our camp, with so-so deer density, anything un-caged or un-fenced will get mowed right down - especially oak & maple seedlings. The spray RGrizzzz mentioned above might work - I have no experience with it like he does.

 

[bwoods11]

I always plant around 200 Bur Oak acorns each year on one farm in Minnesota. I’d guess I get less than 20% survival, but the seed is free from my yard .. so anything that survives is a plus .

A combination of oak/walnut/cherry/hackberry would be cool… but whatever mix you have—good luck, should be fun project !

 

[RGrizzzz]

I think Bill did a follow up video where he rented a tree planter and planted bare root seedlings. It's kind of like a single bottom plow that you sit on. I'd go that route over disking in acorns.

 

[bwoods11]

Another option .. acorns/seed, & a mix of plugs ! It takes about a 1/2 day to plant 400-500 plugs with 2 guys !

Make it a multi-year project? Cage or tube some to see the contrast in growth ?

 

[Ben.MN/WI]

The pull behind tree planter works great for many large planting options. I used one once on my friend's farm and you can easily plant several thousand trees per day. We used a 2 place planter, so two guys were on back and one was driving the tractor.

We've also planted around 10,000 trees and shrubs by hand with dibble bars and that works fine too but it is way more work than the pull behind planter. In between my planted tree rows I would also throw a few acorns or plums and kick a little dirt on them. That worked surprisingly well.