Dead Buck -- Mystery Cause

[bigbendmarine]

Few weeks ago I looked out my bedroom window and could see a deer feeding alone later than normal in one of my distant food plots. Got my binoculars out and after putting glass on it, could tell a few things:

• It was a buck that had dropped his horns
• While it looked really big bodied at first sight, looking closely at it through glass I could tell it actually was starving - pelvis sticking out of its skin and ribs showing
• It fed an unusually long time for the daytime (around 10am), and again completely alone -- 30 minutes or so and moving little as it ate

Pulled camera cards and sure enough have a single video of him walking through one of my food plots. Neither in the video nor when I had glass on him did I see obvious sign of any significant injury or issue affecting his mobility / gait even if he wasn't moving quickly / much.

Fast forward a week and I'm down at my pond which is about 600 yards from the plot and I see ribs in the edge of the pond / muddy cattail filled area with ankle deep water. Buzzards were abut half done cleaning the rib cage area, but the head was still fairly clean and it appeared to be the same hornless buck.

I'm in FL and best I know we've yet to have CWD, but a quick google search shows the state has deer die from time to time from EHD and bluetongue, though from what I've read its rather random and FWC (Florida Wildlife Commission) says that while they investigate / track deaths they don't / can't take any actions to prevent biting midge transmission. Also seems kind of late in the season for EHD diseases, though we've had a very mild winter with no real hard freeze (two very light frost mornings the entire winter).

Throw in to the equation I had one nice buck that broke a horn early in the rut and I did note that while it stayed active through midseason, in videos I could see yellow color around the antler base that I'm guessing was puss / signs of possible infection. Interestingly I quit getting camera hits on the broken horn buck around the new year, though again other than the broken rack it looked healthy at the time. It's the buck with the broken horn at the 20 second mark in this video:

Anybody think I've shared enough to make an educated guess? We're fairly green year round and this is the first time I've ever seen a deer anywhere close to as thin as this one, and rest of herd looks healthy (at least for moment). Love to hear members thoughts / own similar experiences if have any.

 

[Bill]

Unless you get more cases I'd say it's going to be a mystery forever. Hopefully that's the case.
Maybe EHD if it's warm and you're ponds are low. They do get skinny from it but usually from not eating.

Could be anything. Internal injury from fighting, cancer pick anything. I've had a few over the years that just plain looked bad. I'm sure they died from natural causes. Heck down there he could have been bitten by some venomous swamp creature.

 

[yoderjac]

One symptom of chronic EHD is sloughing hooves. With the acute form that kills deer, they become lethargic, and often you can walk right up to them. They tend to seek water as well. EHD is on about a 7 year or so cycle up here. When we get hit folks tend to find dead and dying deer before our hunting season begins (Aug through Oct). However, you are in Florida and timing could be different there. It is transmitted by biting midges, so if you still have insect activity at this time of year, it could be possible.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Reagan]

I think EHD kills them fast enough that they won't show significant weight loss.

Look up cranial abscess. At least I think that is what it is called. I would guess your buck injured his skull.

Once the flesh rots off the skull you found, take a good look at the condition around his antlers.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JFK52]

There have been reported cases of "new world screw worm" in the tiny population of Key deer in the middle Florida Keys. Not saying that was what killed this buck, just sharing another way that deer die.

 

[swat1018]

EHD deer within 24 hours many times. They don't have time to waste away.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Unless you get more cases I'd say it's going to be a mystery forever. Hopefully that's the case...Could be anything. Internal injury from fighting, cancer pick anything. I've had a few over the years that just plain looked bad. I'm sure they died from natural causes.

Bill, suspect you are right AND I indeed will be relatively happy if it remains an isolated mystery.

When we get hit (with EHD) folks tend to find dead and dying deer before our hunting season begins (Aug through Oct). However, you are in Florida and timing could be different there. It is transmitted by biting midges, so if you still have insect activity at this time of year, it could be possible.

So mild this year that I've seen butterflies each month. Mosquitoes have been especially bad in recent weeks so biting midges definitely could be the culprit (though, again, hoping Bill's right).

Look up cranial abscess. At least I think that is what it is called. I would guess your buck injured his skull. Once the flesh rots off the skull you found, take a good look at the condition around his antlers.

Cut off the head and plan on cleaning it / seeing if it provides any clues.

There have been reported cases of "new world screw worm" in the tiny population of Key deer in the middle Florida Keys. Not saying that was what killed this buck, just sharing another way that deer die.

Might should have shared I'm in North Florida. While Florida might not be quite as big as Texas, still a long state with my locale being about as close to Louisville KY as it is to the Keys. I'm only about 30 miles south of the Georgia line. Just doing a quick google search on the screw worm, pray I don't see it invade our area in my lifetime.

EHD deer within 24 hours many times. They don't have time to waste away.

Hopefully that's a good sign it didn't die from EHD, Swat1018 but from what I've read, deer in our area have developed varying levels of resistance and some die quickly, some die more slowly, while others either recover or don't een show symptoms. Bit of google research showed our general area had an outbreak back in 2012, but even that outbreak fit with the more typical pattern of being in the early fall versus late winter / early spring. Below are few links that speak to EHD in our area.

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/health-disease/white-tailed-deer/hemorrhagic-disease/
http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/health-disease/white-tailed-deer/hemorrhagic-disease/
http://www.midwestwhitetail.com/ehd-outbreak-in-florida/
http://www.midwestwhitetail.com/ehd-outbreak-in-florida/

 

[bigbendmarine]

Should have added MUCH appreciate all the replies. Hoping Bill's right with the "likely to remain a mystery" but if skull tells any story (also plan on taking look at hooves) and / or camera pulls from few other cameras I haven't checked recently help provide any explanation I'll definitely share whatever I find.

 

[Tap]

There are 2 "types" of EHD...Acute and Chronic. They die quickly from acute EHD, but chronic EHD can take months to kill and the hooves may show signs of deformity.
I always check the hooves of any deer carcass that I find.

Here's an EHD survivor. I watched him go from having deformed hooves in the late summer to actually losing his toes on his right rear foot as it shows in this photo. This was definately chronic EHD that didn't kill the deer.


And this is a doe I found dead. It also had chronic EHD as proven by the toe deformities. Acute EHD would have killed her quickly, but she survived long enough to grow deformed toes. All 4 of her feet were like this. I sometimes see deer walking like they have sore feet. I'll bet a lot of them have chronic EHD.

 

[bigbendmarine]

And this is a doe I found dead. It also had chronic EHD as proven by the toe deformities. Acute EHD would have killed her quickly, but she survived long enough to grow deformed toes. All 4 of her feet were like this. I sometimes see deer walking like they have sore feet. I'll bet a lot of them have chronic EHD.

Thanks for the picture shares, Tap. Couldn't bring myself to hit the "like" button as hate to hear you've lost deer to EHD, but again much appreciate the insight. DEFINITELY will be sure now to go back to the carcass and check the hooves and share what I find.

 

[buckdeer1]

We had a deer with a brain abscess and didn't know it till after I put him down when law enforcement got there.He would take a couple steps lifting his front legs like a strutting horse trying to walk.As mentioned it could be anything from cancer to a injury from fighting

 

[bigbendmarine]

To Bill's original point, won't surprise me OR really bother me if never know cause of death as long as it's an isolated case and thus far herd still looks otherwise healthy.

Above shared, do have a few updates.

First, GLAD to report that with a lone exception all bucks I had around during the season are accounted for with cam hits (after the death of the mystery buck) AND even for the buck not on camera, it's NOT him either as he's had a badly broken ear that lies forward and flat that doesn't match the dead buck.

The deer I most worried about was a nice-bodied young buck with a badly broken main tine on one side (mentioned in a post above and in the video I shared).

As mentioned in my earlier post I hadn't gotten hits on him for a month or so but he showed back up! Glad about that as even with the broken horn he has fairly good genes and despite the broken horn he acted rather dominant and had a doe with him in almost every camera hit I had of him.



Here's a pic that shows the earlier mentioned yellow crud around the base of his broken horn... doe in the background near him as well.



Thankfully he appears to be alive and relatively well.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Now for a few more details on the dead buck... went to the carcass and none of the hooves showed any deformities. Body is about 3/4 decayed and I did notice that on one foot the hooves easily slipped off. Not sure if that's normal or not but guessing maybe so.

For whatever it's worth, I went back to video I took of him feeding in the field and did notice a few interesting things.

First, I think I had mentioned it looked really big when I first saw it through binoculars and looking at the video I see why... despite pelvis bones sticking out as well as ribs and backbone too, when turned the exact right way it's obvious it was badly bloating shortly before dying. Know humans can have the same thing happen as they starve as a side effect of extreme protein deficiency -- not sure if the case with deer, but again was visibly noteworthy.



But here's what I found the most interesting... when carefully playing the video in slow motion I noticed that when turned the exact right way and with his head up (almost the entire time I filmed him he had his head down feeding), it's obvious he had some extreme swelling going on just behind the mouth in his lower jaw. He didn't have the "bullwinkle" look as much from the front or the other side / it didn't appear that it's nose was massively swollen as with pics I've seen of "bullwinkle" deer but something sure looked to be going on with the lower jaw and I did note when I cut off the head that on the bottom side of the jaw there were some open spots but didn't know if it was because by that time it had already started experiencing decay. It didn't stop him from chewing (he was chewing each time he raised his head) but the pics are taken with his mouth fully closed and the swelling quite evident.





Not sharing with the expectation that it will necessarily point to a conclusive answer... but instead just to follow-up on promises I would give hooves a look... that and to happily report good news (crossed fingers it continues) on rest of herd.

 

[Bill]

Had one with that head thing last winter but she had more going on. Eventually wasted away.

I was quietly trying to put her down but never got the chance.
Eventually she stopped showing up on cam. Never did find the carcuss but the yotes clean them up pretty fast.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Had one with that head thing last winter but she had more going on. Eventually wasted away. I was quietly trying to put her down but never got the chance. Eventually she stopped showing up on cam. Never did find the carcuss but the yotes clean them up pretty fast.

Yotes are fast down here too... as embarrassed as I am to admit it, my S.I.L. actually was the one with good eyes with the buck. She was down visiting us from the Carolinas and when down at our pond pointed into some thick swampy brush by the pond, and said, "Is that a rib cage?" Still impressed she spotted it.

Last card pull showed a number of fat critters that likely took advantage of Mother Nature's offering (found buck dead in spot only about 30 yards to the right of the frame in the pictures).

 

[Bill]

Can you shoot those hogs all year long in Fl?

 

[Eggman]

It looks like you need to do some bacon hunting!

 

[bigbendmarine]

Can you shoot those hogs all year long in Fl?

Yep, just have to find the time. Between doing land improvement chores, yard work at our home and office, as well as fishing whenever I can, pigs stay fairly safe from me unless they run out in the open around our house during daylight.

 

[bigbendmarine]

Pretty sure this will be the final update, but turns out that the mystery is somewhat solved!

As mentioned earlier, I cut off the skull. Since it was in a fairly rank stage at the time versus skinning it / de-fleshing it I instead let bugs do much of the work before switching to cold-water maceration.

Checked on the skull yesterday and... turns out the buck had some significant dental / bone issues going on that I'm guessing led to starvation.

First, there was an obvious abscess in one of its left upper molars that had led to half the tooth decaying along with significant bone in the jaw area of the tooth.



Interestingly on the OTHER / right side the bucks lower jaw had either a major infection, injury, cancer, or other disease. Swelling of the bone was nearly triple what it should have been and the bone either was broke at death or it sure fell apart easily during the maceration process... can't imaging how painful chewing must have been with the area so compromised.



And finally, even the roof of the mouth on the right side seemed to show issue with either infection / cancer / disease.



Had planned on using the skull to mount a set of horns from the very first buck I killed many, MANY moons ago in my youth -- a fairly small yet healthy 2 year old 8 pt buck... still, may, but sure going to be a quirky hodge-podge mix up. That said, still very glad I took the time and effort to study the skull as it did end up telling a story / bringing some resolution to my initial concern. Anyone thinks they can speak to whether it was just regular abscesses, trauma, or disease I would welcome the insight.

 

[Tap]

Thanks for the interesting update. That buck had some significant tooth wear. I wonder how old he was and how long he lived in misery.
Mother nature can be a bitch. You should send those pics to PeTA.

W. Pa.