conservation mixes, perennial rye, fescue, pasture mixes

[bigboreblr]

Anybody value these? Tempted for years to try a mix and see what it does. Deer all around where I live enjoying pastures that haven't been seeded, amended, or redone in probably decades.

I planted a perennial rye, trefoil, beerseem, chicory, and red clover mix last spring at at hunting camp lawn. Catskill conservation blend as agway calls it. A club member bought a new kubota and redid the grade and expanded it a bit too. Stuff has been mowed 3 icnhes or so about monthly in 2021, so not sure what year 2 will look like. alot of clover. Not sure if the rye made seed between mowings. Sandy low ph soil, that turns the pH higher pretty easily.

Been fixed on small grains, clover, turnips, and peas over the past decade playing in the dirt.

 

[yoderjac]

I would avoid any mix with fescue in it for wildlife.

When you say perennial rye, I think you are talking about perennial ryegrass. I just did a deep dive into ryegrass because I needed some. Diploid ryegrass (annual and perennial) is not very high on the preference list for deer. It can become invasive in some places. Some mixes use it as a filler because it is easy to grow and novice food plotters see green stuff growing and think they were successful. After the deep dive, I found that tetraploid high sucrose (sugar) perennial ryegrass is what you are looking for. I have and area along a driveway that I want to stabilize and I want to avoid fescue at all cost. This is much more wildlife friendly and should stabilize the soil. It is also more attractive to deer.

Some mistake ryegrass for winter rye which is an annual cereal grain that deer love when it is young in the fall. Berseem is an inexpensive annual clover that some BOB mixes use, largely to reduce their cost by including less improved varieties in the bag. They claim it acts as a nurse crop for spring planted clover, but more seasoned folks plant perennial clover in the fall with a small grain nurse crop.

When things get bad enough, deer can eat about anything green, but you will rarely see them actually eat fescue. Most of the time they are eating forbs like clover in pasture. Fescue forms a turf mat and falls over unlike bunch grasses. This makes it hard for turkey chicks or quail chicks to move through a field with fescue in it.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[Bowsnbucks]

There are a number of seed vendors out there that have seed mixes for pastures, gas pipelines, electrical transmission line ROW's, wetlands, dry upland areas, pollinator-friendly plots, etc.

One our camp has used is Ernst Conservation Seed Co. in Meadville, Pa. --- American Meadows is another one. Check out their web sites. They describe the uses for, and natural habitat various seeds will thrive in.

 

[Catscratch]

Yes, I value interseeding pasture. I avoid ryegrass but clovers/chicory/wheat/eastern gammagrass/etc are high on my interseeding list.

 

[Bassattackr]

I would avoid any mix with fescue in it for wildlife.

This! Or any CSG for that matter! Ryegrass included.

Read closely what's in the CP/CRP mix, many are not wildlife friendly.

 

[yoderjac]

This! Or any CSG for that matter! Ryegrass included.

Read closely what's in the CP/CRP mix, many are not wildlife friendly.

I think this is good advice for the average food plotter. I've always suggested avoiding mixes with Ryegrass because it can be invasive and is not high on the preference list of deer with some exceptions. I know more advanced managers have included Ryegrass in their programs very successfully. I recently had an occasion to do a deeper dive into Ryegrass for a specific application. If you use a mix with Ryegrass you need to do a deep dive. Avoid diploid and annual ryegrass. High sucrose (sugar) tetraploid perennial ryegrass is much more favored by deer and is not invasive. But I do agree in general, I'd avoid any mix with ryegrass unless you do your homework.

Thanks,

Jack

 

[fishin coyote]

There are a number of seed vendors out there that have seed mixes for pastures, gas pipelines, electrical transmission line ROW's, wetlands, dry upland areas, pollinator-friendly plots, etc.

One our camp has used is Ernst Conservation Seed Co. in Meadville, Pa. --- American Meadows is another one. Check out their web sites. They describe the uses for, and natural habitat various seeds will thrive in.

I’ll second Ernst seed. I drive by their office a couple of times a week so if I need something I can stop and pick it up.

 

[bigboreblr]

I maintain a snowmobile trail section. There is ATV traffic from time to time. I do mow it. One section is on my club's property, there are two other clubs I have permission to mow.

Im returning the favor by seeding spots here n there on this 2 mile stretch. Just want to keep the cost low, and the time involved low too. If I mow it, itll be something worth mowing.

IF doing ryegress, I would use the tetrploid. That conservation mix I used had some it in. I usually just gt pictures from trail cameras. But, in new plots I put it in video mode. They eat that grass.

Annual winter rye is something I definitely use. Usually 1st year plots in new places. I use a tow behind mower, it'll be alot of work with annual rye. There is a spot here n there that is a good bit wider, Ill use oats or wheat there. The tighter spots need a more dense root structure and need to survive some tire traffic. Not a ton, but some. Thinking pasture mixes could do it well. I'd be fine is the deer passed on the rye some in favor of clovers. The better spots will be plotted. These narrow stretches will be frost seeded atleast. I also need some trorw n grow like properties for muddy ruts.

The extra spots also give me a chance to try different things. The wider areas have had successful oat, wheat, winter peas, clover, and if planted in the spring turnips. Narro spots get less light and more traffic. Grasses have survived fine Oats, Rye, and hairy Vetch too. Clovers are still in spots after not frost seeding 3 years. Some of these spots are just too much work to get rock free too.

 

[Bassattackr]

There used to be a product called Sweet Spot that Welter Seed carried that had the high sugar rye grasses in it that Dbltree used with great success. Not something I would use in a cover or CRP area but a great plot product nonetheless for more shady or corridor areas perhaps.

 

[bigboreblr]

Welter still has sweet spot.

I've kind of scoffed at those fancy bags of food plotter seed, in favor of general cover crop Ag seed. Got to say the best clover I have used yet is that imperial clover. I've been without it in my clover blends the past 2 years. Looking to pick up a bag for the fall. Got enough clover seed for frost and breaking in a new shooting lane or two....

 

[yoderjac]

Welter still has sweet spot.

I've kind of scoffed at those fancy bags of food plotter seed, in favor of general cover crop Ag seed. Got to say the best clover I have used yet is that imperial clover. I've been without it in my clover blends the past 2 years. Looking to pick up a bag for the fall. Got enough clover seed for frost and breaking in a new shooting lane or two....

Extremely expensive when you look at the amount of improved variety clover vs inexpensive berseem in the bag. Fine for small plotters where cost is not a big issue, but when working on scale, Durana is a much better bet for an improved variety. Alberlasting has also been doing quite well for me as an improved variety. At least you can buy both of these alone. With WI, you can only get their improved varieties in a mix... Cost per pound of improved variety is drastically more which matters when working at scale.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I’ll second Ernst seed. I drive by their office a couple of times a week so if I need something I can stop and pick it up.

That's handy. They have a TON of seed mixes and individual seeds.

 

[Angus 1895]

I avoid fescues!

this year I am going to plant some sanfoin.

 

[bigboreblr]

Extremely expensive when you look at the amount of improved variety clover vs inexpensive berseem in the bag. Fine for small plotters where cost is not a big issue, but when working on scale, Durana is a much better bet for an improved variety. Alberlasting has also been doing quite well for me as an improved variety. At least you can buy both of these alone. With WI, you can only get their improved varieties in a mix... Cost per pound of improved variety is drastically more which matters when working at scale.

IF I bought something like a 25 or 50lb bag of durana, would it be worth it if you only use 10lb or so a year? I might be up to 15lb a year. Depending on how much new trail sections I am seeding. Loose a bit of germination, but save money and have the convience of having plenty on hand. I always keep a bit for new clearing of edges, removing dead apple trees, burn piles etc.....

 

[yoderjac]

Durana keeps pretty well, but you don't need to buy a 50 lb bag. I has been a number of years since I purchased it. I bought mine from Poudre Valley Coop mail order. I think the guy's name was Harvey. I don't know if he is still there. As I recall, it is a pretty good price and you could buy 25lbs if you wanted at the same per pound price.

THanks,

Jack