Bulk pines planting

[roymunson]

Have several acres of "no mans land" that would be good as screen and potential bedding down the road.

I have the tractor and the access to a 3 point planter, was thinking 3-0 norway spruce. Would love to some day have thermal cover and it'd be a screen between the road and the pond/big open fields where deer are moving.

Anyone done bulk plantings like this? Success or complete flop?

I think Ohio has some funding to potentially pay for the trees if we do the labor, but I'd have to check into it.

What are your thoughts on things?

 

[Mortenson]

I did 3 acres of Norways a few yrs ago. 1000 plugs on 12x12 spacing. Sprayed and bud capped them for 2 yrs. They're all gone now. The deer liked them a little too much. Maybe explore some of the other conifers being discussed on different threads that aren't quite as palatable.

 

[Tree Spud]

Norway's are great for screen & thermal cover. Plant on at least 12x12 spacing. Spray/mow to reduce competition. Whatever you plant, cage them. Browsing is one issue, but show is bucks rubbing them.

Depending on root ball size, assuming these are 3.0 transplants not seedlings, 3 point planter may not allow roots to get deep enough. I use a post hole attachment on my tractor. We plant ~400-500 spruces that are 3.0 transplants and are 2'-3' tall each spring. Root structure pretty well developed and with post hole digger, we can get long roots done 2'. I think this has helped with survival rates especially if we get some drought like conditions in the summer.

Below is what tree roots look like and tractor with PTO driven post hole digger. We can typically plant 150 Norway's a day.

 

[Mortenson]

Spud, do you cage all those?

 

[Honker]

We've had good success planting this way, we've planted over 10 thousand. With conifers, the 3-0 spruce will not be a problem with a tree planter. I never had to worry about rubbing or browsing with conifers but deciduous trees is a different story.

 

[Spruce85]

I planted 1000 small Norway spruce plugs over a 6-7 acre area. Sprayed it, planted, then let it go. Three years later the trees are growing great. Deer have nibbled a lot of the tops but they keep growing. Couple more years it will be awesome bedding

 

[Tree Spud]

Spud, do you cage all those?

Norway's yes. With Norway's, both deer and rabbits will browse them in the winter. We have started to add Blue Spruce which don't seem to be bothered by the deer so far.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Have several acres of "no mans land" that would be good as screen and potential bedding down the road.

I have the tractor and the access to a 3 point planter, was thinking 3-0 norway spruce. Would love to some day have thermal cover and it'd be a screen between the road and the pond/big open fields where deer are moving.

Anyone done bulk plantings like this? Success or complete flop?

I think Ohio has some funding to potentially pay for the trees if we do the labor, but I'd have to check into it.

What are your thoughts on things?

I believe you asked about this same area last year. Complete flop doing a bulk planting with little uncaged norway spruce even in low DPSM. I could show up with 10 trees, a roll of welded wire, some post, a weed mat and some mulch and after 5 years I will have 10 more trees then you doing a bulk planting. Situations like this are where a person needs to do experimentation. We purchased our woods in 2011, and did bulk plantings of various conifers all the way until 2018. I bet 3-5 trees out of a couple thousand didn't survive (what a waste of f******g time and money). Fast forward to 2019, I started caging, planting bigger trees and using weed mats and mulch. Now my woods is finally exploding with all the trees that I failed with for 7 years.


Sometimes MORE will end up being a hell of a lot less.


If you wanna get away without caging then you need to try either black hills spruce or white spruce, possibly balsam fir if they are large enough ( I would avoid blue spruce just because it can be a real pansy against disease in the long run). All other types of conifers I have planted have been heavily browsed or choked out by the competition (white pine, norway spruce, red pine, white cedar, scotch pine, small balsam fir, black spruce, ponderosa pine, tiny white spruce).

 

[Bowsnbucks]

I'm with Buck. ^ ^ ^
After some years of reading of others on here, and from my own experience, I believe if you want pretty much guaranteed tree planting success - cage them!!! If deer don't have enough ag food or other food supplies - they'll travel a good bit to find food and will adjust their taste to eat most anything. Even at our camp - some years deer nibble the tender uncaged spruce tips - other years they don't. Cages prevent eating and RUBBING - which they seem to love doing to spruce. I cage any spruce that we definitely want to survive & grow. Others are left to chance, which for us is about 70/30 they survive.

Gonna try BHS.

 

[H20fwler]

Have several acres of "no mans land" that would be good as screen and potential bedding down the road.

I have the tractor and the access to a 3 point planter, was thinking 3-0 norway spruce. Would love to some day have thermal cover and it'd be a screen between the road and the pond/big open fields where deer are moving.

Anyone done bulk plantings like this? Success or complete flop?

I think Ohio has some funding to potentially pay for the trees if we do the labor, but I'd have to check into it.

What are your thoughts on things?

I think to have good success with starting any type of conifers in deer habitat the trees will need protected. I know you are in a much higher deer density county than I am.
They don't have to have cages like fruit trees, old farm fence will work fine. It isn't practical to try and protect individual trees when planting large volume, but without protection 90% get destroyed or end up looking like trimmed poodles.

Five or six years ago we started planting pines in groups of 4-8 about ten to fifteen feet apart for future thermal cover and putting fence around the groups. It has worked out great and we have had zero browsing, zero rubbing and zero loss. It should work with any type of conifer you want to plant.

 

[BuckSutherland]

^^^^


My land is up in this area. The worst time of year for browsing is after spring snow melt/before spring green up and right after the first heavy snowfall. Have also seen them pull out many plug plantings in the spring and chew on them like candy. We are currently sitting at about 16-24 inches of snow in my area. Deer are damn near up to their chest in the snow. Hopefully they leave the area very soon and go to the cedar swamps. Its really the only place they can survive the deep snow. All the ag fields and food plots are now buried. You may find deer next to logging activity if they have some thermal cover nearby. Once things melt in the spring and they migrate back to my land they start chewing on anything and everything they can find. Tiny unprotected conifer plantings are delicious little snacks when 90% of the available food has been buried for 3 months. I have seen them wipe out attempted mass pine plantings after the loggers clear an area by me.

 

[4wanderingeyes]

I planted 1000 white pine, and 500 red pine a few summers ago, I never caged them, and there isnt a single one alive now. I am following Bucks recommendation of less bigger trees, and protect them. I am just hoping I can find some fencing. I was looking at Menards, and Tractor Supply in my local area, and they didnt have any.

 

[Tree Spud]

I believe you asked about this same area last year. Complete flop doing a bulk planting with little uncaged norway spruce even in low DPSM. I could show up with 10 trees, a roll of welded wire, some post, a weed mat and some mulch and after 5 years I will have 10 more trees then you doing a bulk planting. Situations like this are where a person needs to do experimentation. We purchased our woods in 2011, and did bulk plantings of various conifers all the way until 2018. I bet 3-5 trees out of a couple thousand didn't survive (what a waste of f******g time and money). Fast forward to 2019, I started caging, planting bigger trees and using weed mats and mulch. Now my woods is finally exploding with all the trees that I failed with for 7 years.


Sometimes MORE will end up being a hell of a lot less.


If you wanna get away without caging then you need to try either black hills spruce or white spruce, possibly balsam fir if they are large enough ( I would avoid blue spruce just because it can be a real pansy against disease in the long run). All other types of conifers I have planted have been heavily browsed or choked out by the competition (white pine, norway spruce, red pine, white cedar, scotch pine, small balsam fir, black spruce, ponderosa pine, tiny white spruce).

I have been advocating the caged approach for past 10 years and even since the QDM days. After i sat in a my bow stand one afternoon and saw a young buck rub & destroy ten 4' tall spruces I had planted 3 years earlier. Glad you and others are adopting.

Plant fewer, larger spruces and cage them. My survival rate went from 10-15% to 90%. Below are some that are 7 years old.

 

[williams111]

I have been advocating the caged approach for past 10 years and even since the QDM days. After i sat in a my bow stand one afternoon and saw a young buck rub & destroy ten 4' tall spruces I had planted 3 years earlier. Glad you and others are adopting.

Plant fewer, larger spruces and cage them. My survival rate went from 10-15% to 90%. Below are some that are 7 years old.

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Tree Spud,
Will the cage on the bottom tree pull off with the branches growing through it? I planted 25 20"-30" norways in the spring of 2020 and caged and weed matted them. I am unsure when, how I will proceed when the trees get to a similar size and begin growing through the cage. Should I slide the cage up/suspend it so it still protects the main leader, but allows the lower branches to continue growing outward? At what size would it be safe to pull the cages?
Thanks!

 

[TreeDaddy]

Baby pines = Andes dinner mints to deer unless you cage them

My east texas experience

bill

 

[Tree Spud]

Tree Spud,
Will the cage on the bottom tree pull off with the branches growing through it? I planted 25 20"-30" norways in the spring of 2020 and caged and weed matted them. I am unsure when, how I will proceed when the trees get to a similar size and begin growing through the cage. Should I slide the cage up/suspend it so it still protects the main leader, but allows the lower branches to continue growing outward? At what size would it be safe to pull the cages?
Thanks!

Yes, they will as when you pull the cage off the branches fold that direction. You could pull the cage out or up, a bit of trial and error to see what works best with each tree.

I want to get the tree larger enough that the deer cannot get his antlers close enough to the trunk to be able to rub and beak the tree. That would be 8'-10' in height.

 

[roymunson]

Well, this is why I asked, but kinda a downer. I have "dead space" in an old pasture. Sounds like I'd be further ahead doing a bunch of MG grass in bunches.

 

[BuckSutherland]

Well, this is why I asked, but kinda a downer. I have "dead space" in an old pasture. Sounds like I'd be further ahead doing a bunch of MG grass in bunches.

Why give up so easy?? Get the shovel out and go find a dozen black hills spruce and plant them to see what happens after one year ON YOUR LAND. I could plant 100 1 gallon pots (with a weed mat and a bag of mulch per tree) in a day real easy if I didn't have to mess with a cage in a pasture setting. Its just not that hard. There is a lot of black hills spruce grown for windbreaks where I live. None of them are in cages. One of a few species you might get away without caging. 100 trees could eventually make a massive difference on a couple acres. Plant a few clumps for bedding a travel corridor leading in and out of the bedding.


If you do a little experiment this year you would know for certain next year. If you let the weeds and grass choke them dont expect them to grow much at all. You have to murder their competition. Conifers are the absolute king maker where I hunt in northern MN. You cant make enough diversity and edge for a whitetail deer.

 

[Bowsnbucks]

Conifers are the absolute king maker where I hunt in northern MN. You cant make enough diversity and edge for a whitetail deer.

Amen Buck. Deer love the cover of conifers here too - especially after leaves drop. 100% agree with diversity. \

As for your comment about edge and diversity in the north woods - I've hunted in Maine a number of times, and what you're saying applies there too. If we want to find deer in Maine, look for logged areas with lots of EDGE and a variety of new growth sprouting up. The more variety - the more the deer numbers.

 

[Tree Spud]

Well, this is why I asked, but kinda a downer. I have "dead space" in an old pasture. Sounds like I'd be further ahead doing a bunch of MG grass in bunches.

Simple solutions to complex problems rarely succeed or produce the results you want.

MG in bunches will provide no better cover than planting willows.

Best time to plant a tree was yesterday ... break the area up into 3-4 sections and implement a 1 section a year or whatever you are comfortable with.